OK. I now have more dyno sheets after my TopSpeed header install. First off, I think my car is screwed up something. I have no clue what it is doing and neither does Z1 Motorsports. I got about 12 dyno runs with them in the past few days.

Iinitially dynoed Saturday @ 226.47 HP and 223.73 ft/lbs. I think I have lost power with adding my mods, but I never did a baseline dyno so I dont know this for sure. Attached in this post is my best dyno before the header install.

Here is the new twist. I was under the impression that any mods that involved intake or exhaust would cause a lean condition.

 

Here is the new twist. I was under the impression that any mods that involved intake or exhaust would cause a lean condition. Well, in my case, my AFR got richer with the installation of my TopSpeed headers. This doesnt make sense to me based on what I have read on this forum.

My first dyno run after the install provided roughly 215 HP and 214 ft/lbs. That is about an 11 HP and 9 ft/lbs loss!! I didnt get a copy of this run. I did attach 2 other runs in this post.

Now to the second part that I dont understand. When the dyno runs were begun between 2500 and 3000 RPMs, there is good acceleration until around 3600 RPMS and then there is a blip in the numbers. In one of these runs in the attached sheet, there is a loss of power/tq

 

Here is the new twist. I was under the impression that any mods that involved intake or exhaust would cause a lean condition. Well, in my case, my AFR got richer with the installation of my TopSpeed headers. This doesnt make sense to me based on what I have read on this forum.

My first dyno run after the install provided roughly 215 HP and 214 ft/lbs. That is about an 11 HP and 9 ft/lbs loss!! I didnt get a copy of this run. I did attach 2 other runs in this post.

Now to the second part that I dont understand. When the dyno runs were begun between 2500 and 3000 RPMs, there is good acceleration until around 3600 RPMS and then there is a blip in the numbers. In one of these runs in the attached sheet, there is a loss of power/tq between about 3100 and 3400 RPMs. Also, there is still hesitation in several spots of the powerband.

 

Mods, please delete my 2nd post.

 

Now on to another interesting fact. When the dyno runs were begun around 3200 RPMs, there is no evidence of the blips around 3600 RPMs. I also put out my most impressive numbers which are 232.82 HP and 232.07 ft/lbs.

As I have stated, I dont understand why I am gaining so little power when the runs are begun below 3000 RPMs and I am gaining the most power when the runs are begun after 3000 RPMs.

Could someone shed some insight as to what the h3ll my car is doing. I am very disturbed at the fact that I have invested over $8k in this car and I am ONLY puting down 231 HP.

Sorry for the multiple long posts.

Zach

 

You have a plenum, pop charger, test pipes, cat back, headers, and pulley and you are only at 232????

That scares me because I just received my Topspeed headers. I see you have a 5AT, maybe that has something to do with it, still, those #s seem way low.

Keep us posted if you "discover" anything!

 

you have a ton of mods and no ecu upgrade yet?

did you do a datalog while you were on the dyno?

 

Hmmm.... that sucks Zach. Wonder what is causing the loss. I'm assuming the car feels slower as well? I am gonna wait to install my headers until I see several documented success stories. Hopefully it's something with your ECU and not your mods. Good luck.

 

I told you in the other thread, it is all in the timing with these 5AT cars. Did you try a 3rd gear run? Running in third gear will sometimes eliminate the issue of the timing being pulled on the dyno. Get your timing taken care of and you will see some much better numbers. I had also mentioned the possibility of having consult hooked up during the dyno runs to monitor your timing, did you have this done? Some think the 5AT cars have more drivetrain loss, but my car put down great numbers and that was before my ECU was completely tweaked the way it is now. It is a pain in the @ss to send the ECU back and forth, but well worth it when you get it all figured out.

 

how do you have $8000 in the car? All that money is performance mods? I say you have a vaccuum leak, an exhaust leak, and I told you to put your cats back on. The test pipes do not work well for N/A cars. Make sure your intake manifold is not cracked and tightened properly, and then see if your crack pulley is alright. Your torque drops off very fast.

 

not to be an *** or anything, but next time, try to put all ur posts into one post.

sorry about ur numbers. stumped me.

 

sounds like your tuning shop is not up to the challenge of determining the source of your problem. Where tf are the tuners/mechanics on this planet that can answer these questions and solve these kinds of problems??? I feel your pain, bro, and will follow this thread closely.
ps: did you read the latest issue of sports z? it has a good interview about racing and the z problems; maybe those guys could help you, but i am still very frustrated that with all the tuners that have bot the z, we still have not solved the mystery of why some 350Zs respond to performance mods with decreased performance.

 

Actually, 232-226=6hp gain from the headers, no?

 

those numbers dont seem right at all. there has to be something else wrong unless he had low hp to begin with.

And whoever commented about test pipes not working with na cars is wrong, where did you get that from? They still add hp on NA, there is a much bigger difference on FI but they still work.

 

he $8k is in all mods, not just performance mods. I have about $3k in performance mods.

I put everything in multiple posts because I dont know how to pot multiple attachments in the same thread.

I know something was said about the timing, but I dont think Z1 had the Consult II or whatever one is needed for our car. Their specialty is the 300ZX and they are just geting into the 350s. SO they are learning the car.

I didnt have them run it in 3rd. They did 4th all the way.

 

You need a techono square reflash to change the a/f so if that is it for the Mods send your ecu of for a reflash.

 

Your pics arent working for me...so I cant comment.

 

Zach, sorry to hear that!

When the Ford dealer hooked up my Mountaineer to their "scope" (or whatever electronic diagnostic equipment they have), it gave them so much information about the vehicle that I was really impressed. Not only did it provide current operating statistics and data, but historical too. For example: They were able to tell me which sensors were still working but losing their sensitivity. (It wasn't a sales job for service)

Anybody:
Doesn't something like this exist for the Z ??

Perhaps a "Dealer Only" diagnostic machine?

 

Based on my experience building my car NA before the Vortech, I'd guess one of two things is going on if anything is actually wrong...

Either
A) It's something simple like a vacuum leak, bad plug, etc
OR
B) Some combination of mods you have really don't get along.

If it's A... then you should be able to identify it by taking a day on the weekend and methodically working your way through the motor, checking simple replacement items and connections to ensure everything is hooked up as it should be.

If it's B... it's more of a trial and error thing. The areas I would be suspect of right away.

The test pipes... ttsupra94 is only partially right. Test pipes may help increase horsepower, but only if you have the proper set up to take advantage of the free flowing exhaust. There are many cases where reduced backpressure will actually result in a power loss. Not to mention early on, many people tried test pipes that produced no gains or a loss in power and posted that on this site. Its a very simple part swap. So I would try a dyno with, then put the car on the lift, put cats back on, and dyno again.

The plenum, exhaust, and headers have all been independently verified to produce power in combination with other mods. So those should be okay.

The headers... I honestly don't know anything about the headers you bought. I know some designs only change the exhaust note, producing no power. The Borla Headers come easily to mind as I had those initially. Have the Top Speed SS Headers been independently dyno verified (that is a dyno from some not affiliated with Top Speed or that sells their parts)? These could potentially be a culprit, but it would be a PITA to verify. Also, this is an install where it would be very easy not to get peak performance because something was not tightened down all the way. Of course, if that were the case, you should notice an exhaust leak sound.

BTW, did you dyno stock? It would be interesting to see if you had significant or marginal gains from stock. Your final number actually means nothing... 232.8rwhp could be correct depending on the dyno's calibration, correction factor, etc, etc.

When doing performance mods, the only dyno number that matters is the change in power from before to after the mods. The absolute number is often not a clear indicator...

For example, car A & B pull identically in an impromptu road race. Car A goes to a dyno and turns 210rwhp initially and after mods turns 232rwhp... a gain of 22rwhp. Car B goes to a different dyno and turns 225rwhp initially... after a couple bolt ons, it also turns 232rwhp after mods... only a 7hp gain.

Which car would you rather be in when the two cars race again? According to the dynos at different shops, they are both turning 232rwhp.

Hope you can figure it out... believe me, I know exactly what you are going through...

 

Yeah, a base dyno run would be very helpful. Still will all those mods they are barely putting out what completely stock Z's put out. Really weird.