AAM SPEC Angled Plenum Spacer !Group Buy!
03-16-2005, 06:30 PM
#361
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Thanks for the reply, now I understand what the instruction means :P
I read the intruction for like 10 times and still couldn't get it...until now haha..
I read the intruction for like 10 times and still couldn't get it...until now haha..
Originally Posted by Zquicksilver
BlackZ33,
What it means is...Place the standard metal washer on the bolt first. Then place the O-ring washer onto the bolt second. This prevents the Top portion of the bolt from tearing up or grinding the delicate O-ring washer when tightening the bolt once on the plenum. I believe (44-66 inch pounds) translates to (6ft.lbs.), but don't quote me on that.
I talked with AAM/DAVE about the "OEM spacers" below on the post and in your picture. He said additional spacers to compensate for the gaping are not needed and the plenum is plenty strong without them. They said they did not want to take the risk of adding spacers and having them fall into the manifold. God would that be a nightmare if one fell into the engine...baNG!!
Word of advice for newbie's working on there car... When taking off the strut, use a socket that has six sides instead of multiple sides and don't use a regular wrench. You want to grab as much of that bolt as possible with the socket.
What it means is...Place the standard metal washer on the bolt first. Then place the O-ring washer onto the bolt second. This prevents the Top portion of the bolt from tearing up or grinding the delicate O-ring washer when tightening the bolt once on the plenum. I believe (44-66 inch pounds) translates to (6ft.lbs.), but don't quote me on that.
I talked with AAM/DAVE about the "OEM spacers" below on the post and in your picture. He said additional spacers to compensate for the gaping are not needed and the plenum is plenty strong without them. They said they did not want to take the risk of adding spacers and having them fall into the manifold. God would that be a nightmare if one fell into the engine...baNG!!
Word of advice for newbie's working on there car... When taking off the strut, use a socket that has six sides instead of multiple sides and don't use a regular wrench. You want to grab as much of that bolt as possible with the socket.
03-16-2005, 07:50 PM
#362
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you people need to understand that 18 bolts are holding the plenum together. if you torque it by hand(no torque wrench), IT DOESN'T need crazy force!!!
Just snug the bolts! if the bolts are evenly torqued, 45inch lbs is more than enough.
45 is slightly tightened. most door handles take more force than that. On a 1foot long wrench, it's = to a little less than 4lbs of force. 4lbs
Don't strip the threads
Just snug the bolts! if the bolts are evenly torqued, 45inch lbs is more than enough.
45 is slightly tightened. most door handles take more force than that. On a 1foot long wrench, it's = to a little less than 4lbs of force. 4lbs
Don't strip the threads
Last edited by Nano; 03-16-2005 at 08:05 PM.
03-16-2005, 08:26 PM
#363
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Originally Posted by derek173
someone help me!!!! Where are you guys getting these bolts.
I went toa couple stores but none of them have these bolts! I found 30mm but nothing else!
I went to:
Pep Boys
AutoZone
Murrays
Home Depot
Menards
Ace
I went toa couple stores but none of them have these bolts! I found 30mm but nothing else!
I went to:
Pep Boys
AutoZone
Murrays
Home Depot
Menards
Ace
03-17-2005, 02:46 AM
#364
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Sorry to hear that you can't get metric bolts in your area. I'd go crazy because I'm always use metric for my projects. You can always go to
McMaster-Carr and order them on line. They have a great site and delivery is amazingly quick.
Hope this helps...
McMaster-Carr and order them on line. They have a great site and delivery is amazingly quick.
Hope this helps...
Originally Posted by derek173
someone help me!!!! Where are you guys getting these bolts.
I went toa couple stores but none of them have these bolts! I found 30mm but nothing else!
I went to:
Pep Boys
AutoZone
Murrays
Home Depot
Menards
Ace
I went toa couple stores but none of them have these bolts! I found 30mm but nothing else!
I went to:
Pep Boys
AutoZone
Murrays
Home Depot
Menards
Ace
03-17-2005, 02:58 AM
#365
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Originally Posted by BlackZ33
I think already strip two of the threads in the lower plenum, I was tightening it by hand! 
The lower threads are too fragile ? or what steps should I use to prevent stripping?
The lower threads are too fragile ? or what steps should I use to prevent stripping?
Have you stripped the threads all the way through the lower plenum, or just a few at the top (this can easily happen if you use a bolt that's too short)? If it's just a few at the top, use a bolt that will engage ALL of the threads, then torque it down to spec with a torque wrench.
Last edited by dgz32; 03-17-2005 at 03:17 AM.
03-17-2005, 05:36 AM
#367
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I apologize for not re-reading through this whole thread... not enough time today. Did anyone ever get some independent dynos on these? Would like to see how they did.
03-17-2005, 07:08 AM
#368
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roark....how did you come up with your sizes?
zquicksilver brings up a valid point as you are adding length therefore bolt sizes should change. since i am so meticulous, i want the correct sizes and would feel more comfortable adding a little length to those stock bolts
zquicksilver brings up a valid point as you are adding length therefore bolt sizes should change. since i am so meticulous, i want the correct sizes and would feel more comfortable adding a little length to those stock bolts
Originally Posted by roark
OK, here you go. The ideal set of bolts (IMHO):
8,14,15 = 30mm
12,13,16,17 = 35mm
7,10,11,18 = 40mm
2,4,5,9 = 60mm
1,3,6 = 70mm
I would not go ANY longer on the center bolts, since the threads are only so deep. You may have to tap the holes further if you get longer bolts.
8,14,15 = 30mm
12,13,16,17 = 35mm
7,10,11,18 = 40mm
2,4,5,9 = 60mm
1,3,6 = 70mm
I would not go ANY longer on the center bolts, since the threads are only so deep. You may have to tap the holes further if you get longer bolts.
03-17-2005, 09:18 AM
#369
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After going areound to 10 places, I had to order the bolts online.
Can someone please confirm I ordered the right bolts?
here is my order
Metric hex bolts, Metric partial thread bolts, Steel grade 10.9, in following sizes :
6mm x 1.0, 35mm
6mm x 1.0, 30mm
6mm x 1.0, 40mm
6mm x 1.0, 60mm
6mm x 1.0, 70mm
thanks
Can someone please confirm I ordered the right bolts?
here is my order
Metric hex bolts, Metric partial thread bolts, Steel grade 10.9, in following sizes :
6mm x 1.0, 35mm
6mm x 1.0, 30mm
6mm x 1.0, 40mm
6mm x 1.0, 60mm
6mm x 1.0, 70mm
thanks
03-17-2005, 09:23 AM
#370
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Originally Posted by Road Warrior
roark....how did you come up with your sizes?
zquicksilver brings up a valid point as you are adding length therefore bolt sizes should change. since i am so meticulous, i want the correct sizes and would feel more comfortable adding a little length to those stock bolts
zquicksilver brings up a valid point as you are adding length therefore bolt sizes should change. since i am so meticulous, i want the correct sizes and would feel more comfortable adding a little length to those stock bolts
Last edited by Nano; 03-17-2005 at 09:31 AM.
03-17-2005, 10:06 AM
#371
Originally Posted by roark
OK, here you go. The ideal set of bolts (IMHO):
8,14,15 = 30mm
12,13,16,17 = 35mm
7,10,11,18 = 40mm
2,4,5,9 = 60mm
1,3,6 = 70mm
I would not go ANY longer on the center bolts, since the threads are only so deep. You may have to tap the holes further if you get longer bolts.
8,14,15 = 30mm
12,13,16,17 = 35mm
7,10,11,18 = 40mm
2,4,5,9 = 60mm
1,3,6 = 70mm
I would not go ANY longer on the center bolts, since the threads are only so deep. You may have to tap the holes further if you get longer bolts.
These bolt sizes make sense to me. If you take into consideration the added spacer height around the perimeter of the plenum and would like to keep roughly the same amount of seated threads as stock, I would recommend the same bolts as Roark. If the front of the spacer is (0.5") in height and the OEM bolt is 25mm, the required length for the same seated threads will be a bolt between 35-40mm. I would go with the 40mm bolt.
Happy power everyone
Zquicksilver
03-17-2005, 10:16 AM
#372
Originally Posted by Nano
once they make thread for 5-10 turns it's fine, who cares. It's freaking 4lbsfoot of torque. the first couple of threads hold most of force, than gradually hold less. If you thread by 40 turns, the 40th turn will be holding the weight of a grain of sand.
$10 for new bolts...
Added strength, security, and peace of mind...PRICELESS
ps never build a bridge or skyscraper...
Last edited by Zquicksilver; 03-17-2005 at 10:19 AM.
03-17-2005, 12:07 PM
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so to recap you would need the following:
3 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 30mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 35mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 40mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 60mm
3 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 70mm
what about the two bolts that require the E-6 socket....are these bolts effected by the spacer?
3 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 30mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 35mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 40mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 60mm
3 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 70mm
what about the two bolts that require the E-6 socket....are these bolts effected by the spacer?
03-17-2005, 12:52 PM
#375
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Originally Posted by Nano
once they make thread for 5-10 turns it's fine, who cares. It's freaking 4lbsfoot of torque. the first couple of threads hold most of force, than gradually hold less. If you thread by 40 turns, the 40th turn will be holding the weight of a grain of sand.
a torque wrench is a must have....every bolt on that car has a specified torque value. while some are more important than others there are certain areas that i wouldn't neglect....and this would be one of those areas
if you want to avoid snapping bolts or having them come loose i suggest you follow the instructions and torque the bolts accordingly....just my .02
03-17-2005, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Warrior
roark....how did you come up with your sizes?
I think your question is why do I conclude that 30mm bolts work in the three aft positions. If this is the question, my answer is that the stock bolts, although they are 30mm in length, only have 25mm of thread. Mfgs use bolts with tip shanks (I think there's another name for this) to reduce assembly time and the risk of cross threading in the mass production process.
You cannot just use 40mm bolts all the way around because the holes are only tapped (I'm remembering here) about 7mm deep, so to use all 40mm long bolts, you would have to finish tapping them though to the bottom.
The two threaded studs are at positions 12 and 17. I'm speculating that these are studded to aid in the assembly process by helping to line things up. (I can use the same speculation to conclude why the strut bar has one stud and three threaded holes on each side.)
03-17-2005, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Warrior
why do you think they make torque wrenches and have torque values calculated by engineers....doing this by feel is foolish
a torque wrench is a must have....every bolt on that car has a specified torque value. while some are more important than others there are certain areas that i wouldn't neglect....and this would be one of those areas
if you want to avoid snapping bolts or having them come loose i suggest you follow the instructions and torque the bolts accordingly....just my .02
a torque wrench is a must have....every bolt on that car has a specified torque value. while some are more important than others there are certain areas that i wouldn't neglect....and this would be one of those areas
if you want to avoid snapping bolts or having them come loose i suggest you follow the instructions and torque the bolts accordingly....just my .02
03-17-2005, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Warrior
what about the two bolts that require the E-6 socket....are these bolts effected by the spacer?
03-17-2005, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Nano
once they make thread for 5-10 turns it's fine, who cares. It's freaking 4lbsfoot of torque. the first couple of threads hold most of force, than gradually hold less. If you thread by 40 turns, the 40th turn will be holding the weight of a grain of sand.
03-17-2005, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by roark
Yes, you will need to (OK, should) remove them.
and is this right for the correct sized bolts needed?
3 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 30mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 35mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 40mm
4 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 60mm
3 ea. 6mm x 1.0, 70mm
thanks all...peace out....good luck on your installs...and i hope you all have great results