Dyno: crawford plenum vs motordyne spacer
05-16-2005, 01:00 PM
#62
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If you want the excel file, I can email them, and then you'll have all the torque/HP/airfuel numbers that you want.
There are no HP values below 2500 because on an automatic, you won't get accurate results with the torque convertor.
05-16-2005, 02:17 PM
#66
Originally Posted by axxizzer
but...that dyno doesnt show torque, or HP below 2500...I simply cannot believe that this can be true(that some cheap hunk of metal outperforms...an expensive hunk of metal...).
05-16-2005, 06:45 PM
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I've got the MD spacer too, because I'd seen similar dynos a couple of months ago. I must say I am very impressed with the quality and the completeness of the Motordyne spacer kit. And the customer service I got from Hydrazine is top notch, there's none better.
Just me 2 cents....
Just me 2 cents....
05-16-2005, 07:19 PM
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just out of curiousity, zboy...what other mods do you have?
interesting results, i just went to the crawford plenum and i had the aam spacer before...and i am impressed with the performance of both. but i never dynod. i am wondering if having different mods would enhance either of the two and by how much.
interesting results, i just went to the crawford plenum and i had the aam spacer before...and i am impressed with the performance of both. but i never dynod. i am wondering if having different mods would enhance either of the two and by how much.
05-16-2005, 07:21 PM
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just out of curiousity, zboy...what other mods do you have?
interesting results, i just went to the crawford plenum and i had the aam spacer before...and i am impressed with the performance of both. i am wondering if having different mods would enhance either of the two and by how much.
i think the crawford looks better and i too had some problems with leaking on the aam spacer.
interesting results, i just went to the crawford plenum and i had the aam spacer before...and i am impressed with the performance of both. i am wondering if having different mods would enhance either of the two and by how much.
i think the crawford looks better and i too had some problems with leaking on the aam spacer.
05-17-2005, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by lowrider
"Hehe, that's what I was sayin the minute they came out with their "$29 Crawford Spacer" mock thread, because it was obvious to me, not by any dynos or testing, but just by how (immaturely) they handled the situation and how much lack of details and inconsistencies there were in their postings. They have been exposed for what they are"
I've stayed out of this thread, because I really had nothing to add to it. If those spacers are workin' for you guys - GREAT. I luv it
However, please stop with the shots at Crawford. Doug is probably the straightest shooter we have as a sponsor here. Most of our sponsor's are great - Stillen is a glaring exception, but that's another story.
Crawford is the premiere 350Z enthusiast. They wont sell it unless it works. They test everything they sell, and everything they sell works.
They spend an immense amount of time in R&D. They were the first one's to report that the new lower plenum didn't produce power on the non-Track engines.
Now, I can't comment on the spacer. I do have a V4 Crawford, and I know it produces power for me. I never dynoed it. But, Crawford has. Yep, I'm a Crawford guy, and I take offense to those who besmirch their name. They arrived on the arena first, and IMHO, are still be best, and they do not, repeat, do not lie.
When I first bought my V2 plenum, Doug and I talked about spacers. That was 2 years ago. He told me he had fabricated one, and it did nothing to fix the equalization problem. I believed him them, and by george, I believe him now,
Lou
I've stayed out of this thread, because I really had nothing to add to it. If those spacers are workin' for you guys - GREAT. I luv it
However, please stop with the shots at Crawford. Doug is probably the straightest shooter we have as a sponsor here. Most of our sponsor's are great - Stillen is a glaring exception, but that's another story.
Crawford is the premiere 350Z enthusiast. They wont sell it unless it works. They test everything they sell, and everything they sell works.
They spend an immense amount of time in R&D. They were the first one's to report that the new lower plenum didn't produce power on the non-Track engines.
Now, I can't comment on the spacer. I do have a V4 Crawford, and I know it produces power for me. I never dynoed it. But, Crawford has. Yep, I'm a Crawford guy, and I take offense to those who besmirch their name. They arrived on the arena first, and IMHO, are still be best, and they do not, repeat, do not lie.
When I first bought my V2 plenum, Doug and I talked about spacers. That was 2 years ago. He told me he had fabricated one, and it did nothing to fix the equalization problem. I believed him them, and by george, I believe him now,
Lou
Also, people should take offense when someone calls their product SNAKE OIL with nothing to back up their claims as Crawford did. That's just plain dirty business, but hey maybe that's right up your alley.
Last edited by copba1t; 05-17-2005 at 02:58 AM.
05-17-2005, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by copba1t
Well if they did work on a spacer it sounds like they missed the mark, by a significant margin. They claimed no gains yet the spacers are showing more gains than their plenum. It sure is a mystery to me
Also, people should take offense when someone calls their product SNAKE OIL with nothing to back up their claims as Crawford did. That's just plain dirty business, but hey maybe that's right up your alley.
Also, people should take offense when someone calls their product SNAKE OIL with nothing to back up their claims as Crawford did. That's just plain dirty business, but hey maybe that's right up your alley.
your way off base man....and without any facts to back up your assumptions.
maybe crawford made a spacer first, discovered power there, and then decided to encorporate that into a one piece plenum. after all, the spacers are based on the same concept that crawford developed long ago.
i like the idea of a cast plenum instead of two pieces...one of the reasons i switched. i think the performance of each are very similar because i have had both. i doubt there is very much performance difference between the two and one dyno doesn't really prove anything
rw....out
05-17-2005, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by copba1t
Well if they did work on a spacer it sounds like they missed the mark, by a significant margin. They claimed no gains yet the spacers are showing more gains than their plenum. It sure is a mystery to me
Also, people should take offense when someone calls their product SNAKE OIL with nothing to back up their claims as Crawford did. That's just plain dirty business, but hey maybe that's right up your alley.
Also, people should take offense when someone calls their product SNAKE OIL with nothing to back up their claims as Crawford did. That's just plain dirty business, but hey maybe that's right up your alley.
Normally I do not post nor respond in regards to the “plenum/spacer” wars that have been going on since we introduced our performance plenum over 2 ½ years ago. But I feel that it is my responsibility to set the record straight in response to copbait’s continuing posts regarding Crawford and who speaks for us and who we are.
There are only two official spokespersons for Crawford Z Car- me, Doug Stewart and VandyZ (Adam Broslat). We both have SPONSOR attached to our posts identifying us as such.
NO ONE ELSE SPEAKS FOR ME OR CRAWFORD Z CAR, and I cannot control what others say, whether they support us or choose to bash us. To those that refer to our supporters as “pimps” or “cheerleaders” and who discount every dyno sheet and testimonial regarding our products, so be it. I cannot change that, but at the same time I know that our products perform, are cost effective, work right the first time, and that I will do anything I can to help our customers, or anyone just looking for information. I am more than glad to help anyone, based on my 25+ years of experience in this business, with straightforward advice and suggestions.
I know that we have thousands of satisfied customers out there, and gain new ones every day, and for that- THANK YOU!
To copbait-
You have been consistent in your posts from day one- bashing us at every opportunity, and anyone who supports our products. Frankly, I am tired of it, and at this point, it shows complete bias and spite from you regarding our products, the source of which I frankly do not understand. I do not believe you and I have ever spoken, or had an exchange on the boards, or even exchanged e-mails.
You coincidentally showed up at the exactly the same time Hydrazine released his spacer, and obviously you are part of his “crew” or possibly, as has been suggested, you are Hydrazine (I do not believe to be the case). Either way, you come off no differently than the target of your initial posts on this forum, PHOENIXINX, who you called out for his posts regarding our testing a spacer made out of stacked plenum gaskets (which we did do). Your continued rehashing of that episode (long forgotten except by you), and your reference to us calling the spacer “snake oil” is frankly getting old. I never posted anything resembling that, which you continuously refer to, and am not responsible for what someone else said, even if YOU mistakenly perceived that those thoughts represented me or Crawford Z Car.
You are now the one guilty of the same behavior you called PHOENIXINX out for earlier.
I have never posted on a Kinetix thread (even when they were experiencing trouble with their initial plenum offering), nor have I posted on any of the spacer threads. For those looking for an option to our products, there are several choices out there, and if people choose to go those other routes, that is fine with me. I will say that in most cases you get what you pay for, and that our plenum, headers and cats do make power, are reliable, and offer excellent performance without compromise in price, quality or satisfaction among those that have them.
What is your contribution to the Z and G community?
Do you sponsor this forum? Do you support Z and G clubs around the country by sponsoring their events? Do you have 25+ years experience servicing, racing and modifying Nissans? When was the last time you spent your money and months of your time to develop a part that provides proven, reliable horsepower gains (we’ve sold thousands of plenums) and were the pioneer that the others followed or copied? How much money have you spent dynoing to see if this or that change in design MIGHT work?
Dynos and variables are a fact, and I stand behind our plenum, headers and cats, the research and development that went into them, and will not get into the debate regarding dynos from here or there and why they are so different. Believe what you want, but also remember that there can be a myriad of reasons a dyno shows different results and that they just give you a snapshot of that time and place, and are only a tool, one of many available to us.
Sorry to be so long, but it’s not often I post, and I just wanted to set the record straight. I do not intend to get into any type of debate on the boards, but am always willing to share facts and information based on experience and
testing and a desire to maintain the reputation I have worked so hard to build.
Doug Stewart
Crawford Z Car Service
Nashville, TN
www.crawfordzcar.com
crawfordzcar@comcast.net
05-17-2005, 07:56 AM
#77
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Originally Posted by dougrace zs
Normally I do not post nor respond in regards to the “plenum/spacer” wars that have been going on since we introduced our performance plenum over 2 ½ years ago. But I feel that it is my responsibility to set the record straight in response to copbait’s continuing posts regarding Crawford and who speaks for us and who we are.
There are only two official spokespersons for Crawford Z Car- me, Doug Stewart and VandyZ (Adam Broslat). We both have SPONSOR attached to our posts identifying us as such.
NO ONE ELSE SPEAKS FOR ME OR CRAWFORD Z CAR, and I cannot control what others say, whether they support us or choose to bash us. To those that refer to our supporters as “pimps” or “cheerleaders” and who discount every dyno sheet and testimonial regarding our products, so be it. I cannot change that, but at the same time I know that our products perform, are cost effective, work right the first time, and that I will do anything I can to help our customers, or anyone just looking for information. I am more than glad to help anyone, based on my 25+ years of experience in this business, with straightforward advice and suggestions.
I know that we have thousands of satisfied customers out there, and gain new ones every day, and for that- THANK YOU!
To copbait-
You have been consistent in your posts from day one- bashing us at every opportunity, and anyone who supports our products. Frankly, I am tired of it, and at this point, it shows complete bias and spite from you regarding our products, the source of which I frankly do not understand. I do not believe you and I have ever spoken, or had an exchange on the boards, or even exchanged e-mails.
You coincidentally showed up at the exactly the same time Hydrazine released his spacer, and obviously you are part of his “crew” or possibly, as has been suggested, you are Hydrazine (I do not believe to be the case). Either way, you come off no differently than the target of your initial posts on this forum, PHOENIXINX, who you called out for his posts regarding our testing a spacer made out of stacked plenum gaskets (which we did do). Your continued rehashing of that episode (long forgotten except by you), and your reference to us calling the spacer “snake oil” is frankly getting old. I never posted anything resembling that, which you continuously refer to, and am not responsible for what someone else said, even if YOU mistakenly perceived that those thoughts represented me or Crawford Z Car.
You are now the one guilty of the same behavior you called PHOENIXINX out for earlier.
I have never posted on a Kinetix thread (even when they were experiencing trouble with their initial plenum offering), nor have I posted on any of the spacer threads. For those looking for an option to our products, there are several choices out there, and if people choose to go those other routes, that is fine with me. I will say that in most cases you get what you pay for, and that our plenum, headers and cats do make power, are reliable, and offer excellent performance without compromise in price, quality or satisfaction among those that have them.
What is your contribution to the Z and G community?
Do you sponsor this forum? Do you support Z and G clubs around the country by sponsoring their events? Do you have 25+ years experience servicing, racing and modifying Nissans? When was the last time you spent your money and months of your time to develop a part that provides proven, reliable horsepower gains (we’ve sold thousands of plenums) and were the pioneer that the others followed or copied? How much money have you spent dynoing to see if this or that change in design MIGHT work?
Dynos and variables are a fact, and I stand behind our plenum, headers and cats, the research and development that went into them, and will not get into the debate regarding dynos from here or there and why they are so different. Believe what you want, but also remember that there can be a myriad of reasons a dyno shows different results and that they just give you a snapshot of that time and place, and are only a tool, one of many available to us.
Sorry to be so long, but it’s not often I post, and I just wanted to set the record straight. I do not intend to get into any type of debate on the boards, but am always willing to share facts and information based on experience and
testing and a desire to maintain the reputation I have worked so hard to build.
Doug Stewart
Crawford Z Car Service
Nashville, TN
www.crawfordzcar.com
crawfordzcar@comcast.net
There are only two official spokespersons for Crawford Z Car- me, Doug Stewart and VandyZ (Adam Broslat). We both have SPONSOR attached to our posts identifying us as such.
NO ONE ELSE SPEAKS FOR ME OR CRAWFORD Z CAR, and I cannot control what others say, whether they support us or choose to bash us. To those that refer to our supporters as “pimps” or “cheerleaders” and who discount every dyno sheet and testimonial regarding our products, so be it. I cannot change that, but at the same time I know that our products perform, are cost effective, work right the first time, and that I will do anything I can to help our customers, or anyone just looking for information. I am more than glad to help anyone, based on my 25+ years of experience in this business, with straightforward advice and suggestions.
I know that we have thousands of satisfied customers out there, and gain new ones every day, and for that- THANK YOU!
To copbait-
You have been consistent in your posts from day one- bashing us at every opportunity, and anyone who supports our products. Frankly, I am tired of it, and at this point, it shows complete bias and spite from you regarding our products, the source of which I frankly do not understand. I do not believe you and I have ever spoken, or had an exchange on the boards, or even exchanged e-mails.
You coincidentally showed up at the exactly the same time Hydrazine released his spacer, and obviously you are part of his “crew” or possibly, as has been suggested, you are Hydrazine (I do not believe to be the case). Either way, you come off no differently than the target of your initial posts on this forum, PHOENIXINX, who you called out for his posts regarding our testing a spacer made out of stacked plenum gaskets (which we did do). Your continued rehashing of that episode (long forgotten except by you), and your reference to us calling the spacer “snake oil” is frankly getting old. I never posted anything resembling that, which you continuously refer to, and am not responsible for what someone else said, even if YOU mistakenly perceived that those thoughts represented me or Crawford Z Car.
You are now the one guilty of the same behavior you called PHOENIXINX out for earlier.
I have never posted on a Kinetix thread (even when they were experiencing trouble with their initial plenum offering), nor have I posted on any of the spacer threads. For those looking for an option to our products, there are several choices out there, and if people choose to go those other routes, that is fine with me. I will say that in most cases you get what you pay for, and that our plenum, headers and cats do make power, are reliable, and offer excellent performance without compromise in price, quality or satisfaction among those that have them.
What is your contribution to the Z and G community?
Do you sponsor this forum? Do you support Z and G clubs around the country by sponsoring their events? Do you have 25+ years experience servicing, racing and modifying Nissans? When was the last time you spent your money and months of your time to develop a part that provides proven, reliable horsepower gains (we’ve sold thousands of plenums) and were the pioneer that the others followed or copied? How much money have you spent dynoing to see if this or that change in design MIGHT work?
Dynos and variables are a fact, and I stand behind our plenum, headers and cats, the research and development that went into them, and will not get into the debate regarding dynos from here or there and why they are so different. Believe what you want, but also remember that there can be a myriad of reasons a dyno shows different results and that they just give you a snapshot of that time and place, and are only a tool, one of many available to us.
Sorry to be so long, but it’s not often I post, and I just wanted to set the record straight. I do not intend to get into any type of debate on the boards, but am always willing to share facts and information based on experience and
testing and a desire to maintain the reputation I have worked so hard to build.
Doug Stewart
Crawford Z Car Service
Nashville, TN
www.crawfordzcar.com
crawfordzcar@comcast.net
+1 satisfied customer here not only for great products (plenum/cats on my z) but excellent customer service as well
05-17-2005, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Warrior
well said and very professional....i would expect nothing less from one of the leaders in the z aftermarket community
+1 satisfied customer here not only for great products (plenum/cats on my z) but excellent customer service as well
+1 satisfied customer here not only for great products (plenum/cats on my z) but excellent customer service as well
we are all adults here (this forum is more of an older crowd) and this isn't a honda forum. we should keep the BS out of the posts. i am here because i have a desire to learn about new products, and it is a pain in the a$$ to scroll through pages of BS and bickering to get to the point of the thread. i think most of the replies need to be moderated out. there is too much opinion here. i need facts.
Chad
05-17-2005, 08:56 AM
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so, in other words...matt, thank you for your post, and putting the time and money in to do such a comparison. at the end of the day, we need independant dyno's to see what really works.
Chad
Chad
05-17-2005, 08:59 AM
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...ditto
- let's keep this a learning and sharing tool that is based on facts, and is open to opinion but not bias. The world already has too much bias manipulating the press.
Doug, thanks for chiming in with a very professional response.
- and note that I bought a Mortordyne spacer only becasue I wanted to keep the stock look, and had trusted the experience of other board members. It seemed to be a reasonalable ($$) alternative to a full Plenum replacement.
My car is my hobby...not my life. Learning is my life and when we stop doing that, it's all over.
- let's keep this a learning and sharing tool that is based on facts, and is open to opinion but not bias. The world already has too much bias manipulating the press.
Doug, thanks for chiming in with a very professional response.
- and note that I bought a Mortordyne spacer only becasue I wanted to keep the stock look, and had trusted the experience of other board members. It seemed to be a reasonalable ($$) alternative to a full Plenum replacement.
My car is my hobby...not my life. Learning is my life and when we stop doing that, it's all over.