copba1t

iTrader: (2)

That's exactly my point. If someone were to publicly mock your hard work and efforts, and dismiss it as snake oil, I would consider that a pretty cheap shot. If not then you have ****-poor ethics.

It's hard enough getting a startup business going without having to deal with crap like that. So yea sure call me out on having positive ethics. I guess I'm guilty of wanting to see the products speak for themselves instead of cheap low blows.

When an employee comes out and talks in terms of "We did this" and "We did that" and none of the other employees that followed up in that same post deny those things, then it's pretty clear to me he is speaking for everyone. I think they just sent out a headhunter to do their dirty work for them, but at the same time try to disassociate themselves from the headhunter and maintain some sqeaky clean image. Sorry but that doesn't fly with me.

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

Dude you are wasting your breath. Your argument is so petty that it is not even worth posting about again. PheonixINX was never an employee of Crawford Z, he was a guy making his own judgement. And even in that thread Motordyne didn't take anything personal at all. Stop being so butthurt about something so stupid.

Nano

iTrader: (1)

The 350z has a plenum flaw (as I remember seeing some crawford video explaing). Once that flaw has been "corrected" engine should produce power. Whether you fix it with an entirely new plenum or a spacer is irrelevant. There shouldn't be major power difference either between the 2 solutions as 99% of the power comes from the "correction" of the front cylinder starvation issue.

This thread is a joke.

BTW, spacers have been proven on countless dynoes to produce gains. Anyone who claims snake-oil is an asstard. ESPRIT in japan was the first to introduce a plenum spacer.

futuredeadguy

[QUOTE=copba1t][b]...When an employee comes out and talks in terms of "We did this" and "We did that" and none of the other employees that followed up in that same post deny those things, then it's pretty clear to me he is speaking for everyone....QUOTE]

Raise your hand if you wish you could be a fly on the wall when all these underhanded conspiracies are supposedly going on in the Crawford shop. Maybe I can help, since I guess I'm one of the 'cronies' spoken about in derogatory terms earlier in this thread. Probably a better word is 'friend', because Doug's probably one of the best I have had since I met him when I moved to Nashville in '99.

I had started a Z Club at my previous residence in Wilmington, NC and it did pretty well. Shortly before the move, I did some research on the web to locate the Z Club in Nashville. When I realized they didn't have one, I emailed Randy Shemin, who I had met online via the IZZC while organizing a caravan down I-40 to the Tulsa convention. We discussed starting a club. Randy mentioned that I should go see Doug as soon as I arrived. A few days after my arrival, I was still unpacking and had not had a chance to follow through as promised. The phone rang. It was Doug. 30 minutes later I was at his shop. Today we probably have one of the most active Z Clubs on the planet, due in large part to his unbelievable willingness to be a lifter, not a leaner or complainer. Keep in mind, this was a full three years before there was such a thing as a 350z. Sorry for this detour - Anyway....

I visit the shop a lot, about twice a week. I have been there when PhoenixINX was also visiting and am familiar with his postings on this site. I can personally vouch for the fact that there were at least three occasions that I witnessed when Doug, which is out of character for him, was IN PHOENIX'S FACE telling him to stop flaming people on the boards regarding his products. Phoenix (aka Chris) usually tried to turn it into a joke, but would back down for awhile. The negative posts always came back a week or so later. Chris is not a bad guy deep down, but he tends to p**s EVERYONE off from time to time, Doug probably more than others.

I cannot remember the last time I saw Phoenix at Doug's shop, but it's been a LONG time - several months. He just sorta went away one day. I wasn't in the shop for that part, so I can only speculate.

I haven't bought ANY of Doug's 350 parts and I probably never will. The reason is I bought a whole car from him that cannot use his products. He built the car himself, and it has been one of the greatest joys of my adult life, The '77 Blue Beast, Winner of the '96 Z Car Convention Nissan Modified class. It's the Devil.

Rock on, Doug. See you at the Dragon on Friday evening.

Dead

ncparamedic

iTrader: (49)

As I see it, apparently Doug isnt one to air out his dirty laundry in public. To speculate that Doug has **** poor ethics because he didnt "Publicly" dismiss this other guy for taking a cheap shot, is totally ludicrous. I think your grabbing for something. Have you seen this guy on the boards lately? The last post Ive seen on him was back on 26Mar05 which would correlate with a previous post stating "that after Doug was in his face about him flaming people on the board" he just went away. So Doug took care of it internally. He seems to be the type of person, evidently, who doesnt have to make a public scene to get his point across. He also said that the guy that posted the "snake oil" post wasnt associated with his company. Maybe a friend but not a business aquaintance (spelling??? ). But you seem to have it in your head that they put this guy in as some type of "mole" or "headhunter". Im not sure where you are exactly going with this. Whats to say your not a "mole" for the plenum spacer makers?? That would put you in the same catagory that you seem to be putting Doug in. Oh but wait a minute..your only stating your opinion. I wouldnt want to stereo type you, personally because i dont know you. Seems to me you dont know Doug either.
So it goes to say that if anyone is to blame for this misinformation or having **** poor ethics, it would be the gentleman that did the thread. Im not sure that I even saw Doug mention anything in that thread. The gentleman that started the thread is the one that took "the cheap shot" at Doug and his business. And if that comment was about me having **** poor ethics, do you think that I would be defending someone I didnt know and only have talked to on email twice if I didnt feel very strongly about this.

[QUOTE=copba1t]It's hard enough getting a startup business going without having to deal with crap like that. So yea sure call me out on having positive ethics. I guess I'm guilty of wanting to see the products speak for themselves instead of cheap low blows.

Your exactly right, it is tough. It appears to me that you are jadded by a past experience. Positive ethics, i think your giving yourself too much credit. Positive ethics meant you would have kept your mouth shut and put you opinion out based on numbers, not slanderous accusations that you can not prove. And wanting to see a product speak for itself instead of cheap low blows. Im not sure if you have been paying attention but the only low blows put out there was you flaming this mans company, product and reputation. His product speaks for itself, the plenum spacers speak for themselves, but you have to admit that with these numbers that come with different modes are also many different variables (i.e geographical, ambient temperature, conditions in the shop, etc...) There are so many different companies out there that are putting out different types of products that do the same thing, i.e. springs/shocks, coilovers, camber arms (EVO, Stillen, Kinetix), TT/SC, Cats, headers, exhaust, wheels, tires, etc..Dougs plenum and the plenum spacer companies are trying to accomplish the same thing. Better intake, allowing the engine to breath. Ok so the $29 idea didnt work out, but I bet it allowed Doug to maybe come up with other ideas that will benefit the Z owners in the future, or maybe not, but im willing to give him the benefit of a doubt because he hasnt given me a reason not to. Take it for what it is and let it die. I promise you will not win with this argument. And trust me, if you get me more proof ,than just that little thread, then if i feel i was misinformed I will apoligize like a man, but something tells me that im not wrong about this. And if you cant see it, then something is wrong with your ethic's meter..Peace

Road Warrior

iTrader: (16)

i agree with nano....from point a to point b is the correction of the uneven distribution of air flow on the upper plenum. as long as you correct that flaw, albiet a crawford plenum or spacer, you are going to get results.

i know this thread is a vs b but you can't go wrong with either. i have had both so i know....i don't have dyno's but they both are noticable gains for sure and not enough of a difference to tell which is making more power.

you never know the specifics on how these dyno comparisons were done....both environments need to be exactly the same to really see the difference. in the end, i bet they would be very similar and even 5 more hp doesn't mean its a better product.
you have to look at the overall picture and the application on the car too.

i can tell you that these guys at crawford know their stuff and their support is awesome....no one can debate that. they also don't come on here to bash people...only to help. please show me one thread or statement from any of the crawford folks bashing another company and i will eat my plenum.

bottom line here in a vs b is you can't go wrong with either as far as performance goes. i don't believe you can prove that one is better than the other so for those that are trying to decide which to buy you really can't go wrong.

copba1t

iTrader: (2)

I don't see any argument, someone asked me to post the old thread so I did =)

As for starting a business and stuff, I have experience with consulting, but no real negative experiences that come to mind. I just knew that AA and Motordyne were both good people, putting in tons of hours working on promising new products, which I always like to see, and that post really got under my skin so I thought I would jump in and try to level the playing field a bit, make people think a little.

You know, maybe if Crawford hadn't let the guy run rampant and post on behalf of the company using "We" so much maybe there never would have been a problem. Back then he did have Crawford tags in his sig and he came across as being extremely involved with the company, almost everything he said was prefixed with "We" so that tells me he was very much involved. Needless to say someone on the inside speaking for a group in that way can negatively affect the group image, that is just a risk taken by letting someone in.

Anyway, as long as the products have a chance to do the talking, and I think they have, then I am satisfied. Peace.

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

+1

I was skeptical myself... but the physical correction made sense to me as an Industrial Designer. So I took a chance and bought a spacer, $185 plus some parts was nothing for what "they" were promising.

I'm still feeling a kick in the butt today!! My guess, based on better acceleration from a stand still and roll-on in 3rd,4th, and 5th gear, it added about 10-15whp combined with my homegrown intake

Zquicksilver
ps I have nothing to gain from this post, only to share that either a new plenum or large spacer will bring a Grin to your face, if not your ears

mickey99us

iTrader: (1)

i could not have said it better myself the only thing now that im stuck on is getting the polished plenum or the black.