21HP 19 FT Torque! On the 350Z
08-11-2005, 12:21 PM
#241
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As I try to locate the source of the sound, I think it may be coming from below and middle of the car. It sounds like a pinging, but also could be a rattle. The Helix cats have introduced all sorts of vibes and rattles. I am going to see if the shop that put them on can fab a bracket/support of some type and weld it on so maybe the OEM cat bracket can be used. It just shakes and rattles way to much.
Sorry to thread hijack, but not much else is going on here right now anyway so at least it keeps the thread alive.......
Sorry to thread hijack, but not much else is going on here right now anyway so at least it keeps the thread alive.......
Last edited by ZinMiami; 08-11-2005 at 12:24 PM.
08-11-2005, 04:42 PM
#243
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Originally Posted by nissansource
yah but detenation can be a silent killer also...
08-12-2005, 10:49 PM
#247
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EVERYTHING I AM SAYING IN MY REPLY HERE IS MY OPINION AND PUTTING IN MY INPUT FROM EXPERIENCE OF ACTUALLY TESTING PRODUCT ON THE 350Z...
ok ok ok ...
So I am lurking and read through this whole thraed...
Way too much time is going between your baseline and your post dyno there... YOu can do alot to a dyno to change the numbers...
Whats the issue here? I drove down to torrence, did a baselinea t R&D, went back to the shop, installed lower track plenum... Drove back down to torrence, did a post dyno... All in what 5 - 6 hours?
I live in Rancho now. How about I snag the intake from you, Ill do the pre / post dyno's on monday at a Dyno that is NOT opperated by the manufacturer of the product...
Its like this other company that I can think of and their dyno numbers that they somehow manage to get out of their inhouse dyno...
If their dyno was accurate that was posted earlier, That car would feel strong until you hit 4500 RPM and after that, its better off stock... Most of us 350Z owners enjoy our 350Z's above 5000RPM or in some cases up to 7400RPM...
I would love to drive down to Corona and pick up an intake, test it, and bring it back to you on Tuesday. I will give a straight up honest review as I always try to do...
Looking at the basic design of the intake it has one feature which I must say is nice... The intake tube is as straight as it gets... This will make for a more direct air flow...
The factory Z Tube is still my favorite when packaged with the JWT Pop Charger... My other choice would be the K&N Typhoon mentioned before because it uses the best of both worlds, the Snorkle to bring in cooler air, and the stronger performance of a short ram...
I feel there is quicker throttle response when using a Short Ram intake. The air can simply get to the throttle body / intake manifold faster once the throttle body is opend with a short ram... Its not a huge difference, but it is noticable...
Give me a call...
My direct line in the office is 626-739-1921
Jason
ok ok ok ...
So I am lurking and read through this whole thraed...
Way too much time is going between your baseline and your post dyno there... YOu can do alot to a dyno to change the numbers...
Whats the issue here? I drove down to torrence, did a baselinea t R&D, went back to the shop, installed lower track plenum... Drove back down to torrence, did a post dyno... All in what 5 - 6 hours?
I live in Rancho now. How about I snag the intake from you, Ill do the pre / post dyno's on monday at a Dyno that is NOT opperated by the manufacturer of the product...
Its like this other company that I can think of and their dyno numbers that they somehow manage to get out of their inhouse dyno...
If their dyno was accurate that was posted earlier, That car would feel strong until you hit 4500 RPM and after that, its better off stock... Most of us 350Z owners enjoy our 350Z's above 5000RPM or in some cases up to 7400RPM...
I would love to drive down to Corona and pick up an intake, test it, and bring it back to you on Tuesday. I will give a straight up honest review as I always try to do...
Looking at the basic design of the intake it has one feature which I must say is nice... The intake tube is as straight as it gets... This will make for a more direct air flow...
The factory Z Tube is still my favorite when packaged with the JWT Pop Charger... My other choice would be the K&N Typhoon mentioned before because it uses the best of both worlds, the Snorkle to bring in cooler air, and the stronger performance of a short ram...
I feel there is quicker throttle response when using a Short Ram intake. The air can simply get to the throttle body / intake manifold faster once the throttle body is opend with a short ram... Its not a huge difference, but it is noticable...
Give me a call...
My direct line in the office is 626-739-1921
Jason
08-12-2005, 11:02 PM
#248
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NISSANSOURCE:
I hope you dont take what I am saying above as anything negitive towards you... I applaud you for taking the time to do this...
As a consumer my self I prefer dyno numbers etc to be as accurate as possible... dyno's them self need to be tuned, the numbers can go down or up depending on the amount of time that has gone by if the dyno is not calibrated regularly...
The pre-post being done offsite at an independant reliable dyno tuning shop...
*(Not saying that the company in quesiton is not reliable or anything, I do not know enough about the company to factually say anything for them)*
I hope you dont take what I am saying above as anything negitive towards you... I applaud you for taking the time to do this...
As a consumer my self I prefer dyno numbers etc to be as accurate as possible... dyno's them self need to be tuned, the numbers can go down or up depending on the amount of time that has gone by if the dyno is not calibrated regularly...
The pre-post being done offsite at an independant reliable dyno tuning shop...
*(Not saying that the company in quesiton is not reliable or anything, I do not know enough about the company to factually say anything for them)*
08-13-2005, 12:15 AM
#249
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I agree totally.
You have to test products in more of a scientific fashion to prove anything. And anything tested or reviewed by the entity that created it can be biased. It has to be conducted within certian parameters or it will be considered invalid, which is what we have here.
Without a complete, totally seperated and unrelated entity testing the unit, the results will not be worth the paper/pixels they are printed on.
I PM'd them and offered to purchase one and do it here in a different state but never heard from them.
You have to test products in more of a scientific fashion to prove anything. And anything tested or reviewed by the entity that created it can be biased. It has to be conducted within certian parameters or it will be considered invalid, which is what we have here.
Without a complete, totally seperated and unrelated entity testing the unit, the results will not be worth the paper/pixels they are printed on.
I PM'd them and offered to purchase one and do it here in a different state but never heard from them.
08-13-2005, 01:07 AM
#251
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The Z community is very luck to have people out there who are obseZessed with Z's and knowledgeable about auto's and mechanics...
This board has a bunch of them as well as some knowledgeable venders who keep the community standards very high...
The 350Z is a platform that is going to be very hard to get people to buy products for that are not actually proven. Most of the 350Z community is educated about their cars mostly from this message board and knowledgeable vendors.
But now with GOOGLE and other things, it is easier to find actual USER experience.
Most of us on this board in SO-CAL have met in one way or another, dyno'ed our cars together, tracked our cars together... We know what works from experience there for truely proving the performance of the products we run...
Dyno proven is great... But when it comes down to it the product has to perform in motion... Everything changes with intakes at 60MPH...
We know where this manufacturer is located. I can always take a lunch and head down there, get my hands on it... If it makes power... I will keep it on my car...
Who wants to come with me ?
This board has a bunch of them as well as some knowledgeable venders who keep the community standards very high...
The 350Z is a platform that is going to be very hard to get people to buy products for that are not actually proven. Most of the 350Z community is educated about their cars mostly from this message board and knowledgeable vendors.
But now with GOOGLE and other things, it is easier to find actual USER experience.
Most of us on this board in SO-CAL have met in one way or another, dyno'ed our cars together, tracked our cars together... We know what works from experience there for truely proving the performance of the products we run...
Dyno proven is great... But when it comes down to it the product has to perform in motion... Everything changes with intakes at 60MPH...
We know where this manufacturer is located. I can always take a lunch and head down there, get my hands on it... If it makes power... I will keep it on my car...
Who wants to come with me ?
08-13-2005, 05:32 AM
#252
Originally Posted by Jason@Performance
Way too much time is going between your baseline and your post dyno there... YOu can do alot to a dyno to change the numbers...
It's all pretty simple, get some baseline dynos, install the piece, get some more dynos.
Afetech - here's your chance to salvage this. Give Jason an intake to test. He'll test it and post the results. Hey, if the thing works even close to what has been claimed, they (Performance Nissan) might even start selling them.
08-13-2005, 01:14 PM
#253
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Originally Posted by DavesZ#3
That's exactly why I questioned nissansource's testing protocol before he even got started. The whole thing sounded confusing.
It's all pretty simple, get some baseline dynos, install the piece, get some more dynos.
Afetech - here's your chance to salvage this. Give Jason an intake to test. He'll test it and post the results. Hey, if the thing works even close to what has been claimed, they (Performance Nissan) might even start selling them.
It's all pretty simple, get some baseline dynos, install the piece, get some more dynos.
Afetech - here's your chance to salvage this. Give Jason an intake to test. He'll test it and post the results. Hey, if the thing works even close to what has been claimed, they (Performance Nissan) might even start selling them.
Last edited by dave079; 08-13-2005 at 01:20 PM.
08-13-2005, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dave079
I highly agree. No offense to Nissansource, but if one was given to Jason we all would feel a little better about the authenticity of the dyno. Over a week between these dynos is a little ridiculous amount of time. I haven't seen AFE on here in a few days (he hasnt posted since 8/1) so maybe it was proven false after all, (I am sure thats what everyone here is expecting especially me, given that an intake will not be the magical 21hp giver) and he has fled the boards with his tail between his legs. Lets get Jason to do it on an independent dyno. Have one baseline and then immediately after use the AFE intake in the same conditions and same dyno to be completely fair. What do you say AFE?
Last edited by charlie_rdstr_Z; 08-13-2005 at 01:34 PM.
08-15-2005, 01:12 AM
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I'm not having great confidence in the scientific nature of the testing here.
There's way too many variables here. Sounds like the car was dynoed at AFE in stock form. It got 228, maybe 238 WHP. I'm kinda surprised that we don't have that number nailed down. The car is to be driven around for 100 miles, then redynoed at the same place.
But we don't know if the car will be dynoed with the same ambient temperatures. The same humidity? The same coolant temp? What if the tester gets a bad tank of gas in the mean time? What if the alignment of the wheels on the machine is 1-2 degrees off from what it was the first time?
All these variables can alter the results. I've seen 350z/G35's dyno another 15 horses after the engine cools off with nothing else done.
Back in January, I tested the Motordyne 1/4" spacer on my car at Church Automotive. After the car sat for about 2 hours (the shop owner was busy with something else when I got there), we hooked it up to the dyno. We did 3-4 runs, reset the ECU, and another 3-4. With the car still on the dyno, we installed the spacer. ECU was reset, and another 4 runs were done. All the dynoing was done within 1.5 hours. With this method, the car was run under nearly the same conditions. The same tank of gas. The same dyno operator. The engine was always warmed/cooled to the same coolant temp. The car was left on the dyno the entire time. I then presented the data, with ALL the runs. Not the best of one setup, or the worse of another.
I'm not saying that the way I dynoed is without other factors that could have varied results. But certainly alot of big ones were taken out.
Here's what would convince me:
1. Strap the car onto the dyno, do an ECU reset, warm the engine up to the same coolant temp everytime, and do 3-4 runs.
2. Leaving the car on the dyno, install the AFE intake, do an ECU reset, warm the car up to the same temp as before, and do another 3-4 runs.
3. Show us all 6-8 runs together. Again, not the best or one vs the worst of another.
I'm not trying to attack anyone here, I just think that the current testing method has got too many factors that are going to alter results.
There's way too many variables here. Sounds like the car was dynoed at AFE in stock form. It got 228, maybe 238 WHP. I'm kinda surprised that we don't have that number nailed down. The car is to be driven around for 100 miles, then redynoed at the same place.
But we don't know if the car will be dynoed with the same ambient temperatures. The same humidity? The same coolant temp? What if the tester gets a bad tank of gas in the mean time? What if the alignment of the wheels on the machine is 1-2 degrees off from what it was the first time?
All these variables can alter the results. I've seen 350z/G35's dyno another 15 horses after the engine cools off with nothing else done.
Back in January, I tested the Motordyne 1/4" spacer on my car at Church Automotive. After the car sat for about 2 hours (the shop owner was busy with something else when I got there), we hooked it up to the dyno. We did 3-4 runs, reset the ECU, and another 3-4. With the car still on the dyno, we installed the spacer. ECU was reset, and another 4 runs were done. All the dynoing was done within 1.5 hours. With this method, the car was run under nearly the same conditions. The same tank of gas. The same dyno operator. The engine was always warmed/cooled to the same coolant temp. The car was left on the dyno the entire time. I then presented the data, with ALL the runs. Not the best of one setup, or the worse of another.
I'm not saying that the way I dynoed is without other factors that could have varied results. But certainly alot of big ones were taken out.
Here's what would convince me:
1. Strap the car onto the dyno, do an ECU reset, warm the engine up to the same coolant temp everytime, and do 3-4 runs.
2. Leaving the car on the dyno, install the AFE intake, do an ECU reset, warm the car up to the same temp as before, and do another 3-4 runs.
3. Show us all 6-8 runs together. Again, not the best or one vs the worst of another.
I'm not trying to attack anyone here, I just think that the current testing method has got too many factors that are going to alter results.
08-15-2005, 03:06 AM
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As much as we should appreciate Nissansource's time and effort, at this point this test in no longer valid. Plus, the the fact that the dyno was suppossedly Friday and we have heard nothing makes one wonder what is going on.
Did the numbers come out really bad and AFE won't release them? I wish Nissansource would at least come on here and say something. Obviously AFE themselves has abandoned this thread.
If they want to make good they should send one to Jason so that we can get a credible test and set of results. For me its just curiosity since I bought one just to settle my own curiosity. I am unhappy with it for various reasons beyond the HP/TQ issues as I have stated a few posts above.
I guess this intake will never see anymore sales to members of this board at least.
Did the numbers come out really bad and AFE won't release them? I wish Nissansource would at least come on here and say something. Obviously AFE themselves has abandoned this thread.
If they want to make good they should send one to Jason so that we can get a credible test and set of results. For me its just curiosity since I bought one just to settle my own curiosity. I am unhappy with it for various reasons beyond the HP/TQ issues as I have stated a few posts above.
I guess this intake will never see anymore sales to members of this board at least.
08-15-2005, 03:53 AM
#260
Originally Posted by DayBlueZ
I guess this is a failure. If the results were good, they would have been posted ASAP.