Originally Posted by johnnyD

Grasshopper, nice doubletalk on the horsepower, and btw, a 31% discount on an item that is already 300% overpriced is no deal. I don't think the attention that you drew to your company here will enhance your business. You want a real review? Send me a copy of your intake. I will do a real evaluation, not a bs infomercial like nissansource; I will post before and after numbers on the same dyno, on the same day, and under similar conditions. Regardless of the results, you will gain back some of the respect that you lost through your deceptive marketing practices. You can feel free to evaluate the results like we did those from nissansource, although I suspect you will not have anything valid to complain about. If the horsepower gains deserve the price that you are charging, you will sell these like hotcakes. Otherwise, I would never ever give you my business, especially after what you tried to pull here. And oh yeah, I will perform the testing at my expense, on my own time, and I will return your intake, and you don't even have to stroke me (like nissansource).

Originally Posted by E K

My question is, are you guys still going to advertise that the intake gains 21HP? Whether or not we talk about peak gain, or gain at max HP, it didn't make that much, even with the benefit of an oil change between runs.

Originally Posted by johnnyD

Grasshopper, nice doubletalk on the horsepower, and btw, a 31% discount on an item that is already 300% overpriced is no deal. I don't think the attention that you drew to your company here will enhance your business. You want a real review? Send me a copy of your intake. I will do a real evaluation, not a bs infomercial like nissansource; I will post before and after numbers on the same dyno, on the same day, and under similar conditions. Regardless of the results, you will gain back some of the respect that you lost through your deceptive marketing practices. You can feel free to evaluate the results like we did those from nissansource, although I suspect you will not have anything valid to complain about. If the horsepower gains deserve the price that you are charging, you will sell these like hotcakes. Otherwise, I would never ever give you my business, especially after what you tried to pull here. And oh yeah, I will perform the testing at my expense, on my own time, and I will return your intake, and you don't even have to stroke me (like nissansource).

Originally Posted by nissansource

The Blowhard is back

Originally Posted by grasshopper

I realize that MSRP is often an inflated, unrealistic price that manufacturers use to determine the "dealer/jobber" price. Can't you do what you're offering to do with the money back guarantee in my offer?

Originally Posted by johnnyD

Nice comeback. Now I'm convinced that this intake will make 21hp+. Why didn't you say that before.



Grasshopper, your answering of questions that weren't asked while dodging those that were, is becoming legendary. Here's what finally convinced me that you are misleading your potential customers, as if a BMW gaining 25% from an intake alone wasn't enough: It would have taken you less effort to perform a valid test, in line with what several members of this forum have suggested, than to continue the doubletalk and misdirection tactics that you have pursued since this thread was started weeks ago. Why don't I buy it and then return it if I'm not satisfied? Because I will already be out dyno time, shipping, and personal time, and getting a refund from a company which has shown zero integrity thus far, is not something I want to worry about. I wouldn't give you my phone number, much less my credit card number. Consumer reports may not take up your offer, but I'm going to approach a couple of auto magazines, and see if they will perform an independent appraisal. Would you ship them an intake? If you believe that your product makes half of what you claim I would think you would jump at that opportunity.

Originally Posted by hfm

Now wait a minute. I look at that chart and whether you look at it in terms of max gains or peak gains, it's no where near 21 hp. Eyeballing the grid, each square represents 19 hp. No where on the grid was 19 hp made as a max gain. Peak and max gains are about 10 hp. For the reasons mentioned earlier, that dyno remains suspect and is by no means authoritative.

Grasshopper, please take a moment to respond to these questions.

1. Where are all the dyno sheets for the year of testing?
2. Who is the owner of that Z?
3. Why would moving the MAF sensor closer to filter do anything?

As for the BMW intake, you can't expect us to believe those numbers. You are talking NO2/FI type numbers. The HKS supercharger weighs in at 80-90 hp and about 60-65 ft/lbs torque at 7 psi at a cost of about $5-6k. For you to suggest that a tapered tube accelerates airflow to generate what amounts to 3-4 psi just insults our intelligence and leaves us with a very bad taste.

I'm still impressed by the torque gains and I think the hp gains are respectible.

But, your product by no means is worth what it's listed. I'd buy a $100 JWT Popcharger any day by comparison. You folks have to get over this 21 hp/44 hp claim. Someone mentioned false advertising. I'm not offering a legal opinion but, I'm thinking you're damn close.

Originally Posted by grasshopper

First of all, I want to thank “nissansource” for taking all the heat from a number of members here and taking time out of his busy schedule to come to our facility and dyno his vehicle at our facility. I appreciate his availability and working around our schedule. I appreciate his objective input on our intake system. Thank you very much, nissansource.

Secondly, I want to thank all of the members who have expressed opinions here, both positive and negative. Our purpose for posting anything here was to generate discussion and to draw attention to our company and to our products. With over 17 pages, I think we’ve accomplished that. Given the attention we received and the forum activity, we definitely intend to become a sponsor. This was our first attempt to utilize a forum to draw attention to us and it has definitely been a learning experience. We’ll be the first to admit that we make mistakes but we try to learn from them. We appreciate the platform that the moderators have allowed us.

I know that dyno numbers can vary depending on a number of factors: Dynojet vs Mustang dyno, ambient air temperature-even between consecutive runs, heat sink, hood open or closed, fan on the engine or not, etc. We now realize that most people view stated horsepower and torque numbers simply in terms of “peak gains” which is the difference in performance at the highest point of a dyno curve. On the other hand, we have emphasized, “max gains” which is the gain seen at the greatest point of divergence. We realize that even though we clearly state that our numbers are “max gain”, people will read any number given as “peak gain”. I see that this causes confusion and skepticism and we now recognize the need to state both numbers.

As much as we try to be accurate in stating our performance gains, there will always be skeptics. We understand this and welcome skepticism. The only way you can be sure is to try it yourself. In the real world, it’s not always possible to try out a performance aftermarket product to see if you like it or not. Air intake systems are not like jeans that you can try on in a dressing room.

So, for those members who have followed this thread and want to try our product, I would like to offer a rare opportunity to try something with minimal risk to you. I have made special arrangements with one of our dealers to offer a very special price on our 350Z intake kit. As a manufacturer, we do not sell direct. This offer is only for a limited time and to the first 25 members to log into the following site

"http://www.proguard7direct.com/rpStoreFront/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=841"

and click onto “add” to access shopping cart. Use the discount code “350z” in the box calling for a discount code. This discount code will qualify you for a special discount available only to my350Z forum members. We have even arranged to pay the freight to get it you. Again, if you don’t like it, just return it and you’ll get your money back. If you have any questions, PM me.

Originally Posted by johnnyD

Nice comeback. Now I'm convinced that this intake will make 21hp+. Why didn't you say that before.



Grasshopper, your answering of questions that weren't asked while dodging those that were, is becoming legendary. Here's what finally convinced me that you are misleading your potential customers, as if a BMW gaining 25% from an intake alone wasn't enough: It would have taken you less effort to perform a valid test, in line with what several members of this forum have suggested, than to continue the doubletalk and misdirection tactics that you have pursued since this thread was started weeks ago. Why don't I buy it and then return it if I'm not satisfied? Because I will already be out dyno time, shipping, and personal time, and getting a refund from a company which has shown zero integrity thus far, is not something I want to worry about. I wouldn't give you my phone number, much less my credit card number. Consumer reports may not take up your offer, but I'm going to approach a couple of auto magazines, and see if they will perform an independent appraisal. Would you ship them an intake? If you believe that your product makes half of what you claim I would think you would jump at that opportunity.

Originally Posted by bixby

All I have to say is W O W !

Quite a sales pitch! Very bold of you. I know very little when it come to CAI's or any NA bolt on's for that matter but, I am a consumer and I look to all of the members here for advise on products and trust mosts on their opinions.

I think that nissansource went above & beyond in his efforts to prove/disprove AFE's claims. Is there some type of buisness relationship between them? My guess is probably, especially after his post regarding previous investments in this type of venue.

It's all been an attempt to "bait" a group of forum members in purchasing their product(s) period as far as I'm concerned. AFE (grasshopper) is the product and nissansourse the investor(or at least one of them).

Nice try guys! If I were my350z.com I wouldn't allow you to become a sponsor no matter how much money you threw at the site.

As others have said, the product appears to be well made but extremely over priced. Add to that the attempt to decieve a very savy group of car enthusiast and you're basically done. I have no idea from a business perspective what to advise to pull yourself out of this mess but I'd come up with something fast if I were you.

Originally Posted by hfm

Now wait a minute. I look at that chart and whether you look at it in terms of max gains or peak gains, it's no where near 21 hp. Eyeballing the grid, each square represents 19 hp. No where on the grid was 19 hp made as a max gain. Peak and max gains are about 10 hp. For the reasons mentioned earlier, that dyno remains suspect and is by no means authoritative.

Grasshopper, please take a moment to respond to these questions.

1. Where are all the dyno sheets for the year of testing?
2. Who is the owner of that Z?
3. Why would moving the MAF sensor closer to filter do anything?

As for the BMW intake, you can't expect us to believe those numbers. You are talking NO2/FI type numbers. The HKS supercharger weighs in at 80-90 hp and about 60-65 ft/lbs torque at 7 psi at a cost of about $5-6k. For you to suggest that a tapered tube accelerates airflow to generate what amounts to 3-4 psi just insults our intelligence and leaves us with a very bad taste.

I'm still impressed by the torque gains and I think the hp gains are respectible.

But, your product by no means is worth what it's listed. I'd buy a $100 JWT Popcharger any day by comparison. You folks have to get over this 21 hp/44 hp claim. Someone mentioned false advertising. I'm not offering a legal opinion but, I'm thinking you're damn close.

Originally Posted by hfm

I suspect Sport Z Magazine would do a shoot-out. An AFE/JWT/K&N/AEM/Injen CAI test would make for good reading. If you're serious, you should contact them. That magazine is well respected in the 350Z community and we would expect unbiased, accurate results.

If you have any hope if salvaging current perception, it will be through such a review or by an independent test by a known forum member, like Jason, who takes the part and does the dynos at an independent facility.

Originally Posted by grasshopper

Q3 Air velocity varies in the tube and the MAF will pick up different air velocity depending on where it is located.

Originally Posted by Jason@Performance

Jason Mendelson - JasonM@perfnissan.com
Performance NISSAN Parts
1434 Buena Vista St
Duarte CA 91010

626-739-1921 - Direct Line
877-211-7389 - Toll Free in US only

Originally Posted by grasshopper

We try to learn from our experiences. I realize now that our "max gain" claims can be confusing to those who are used to seeing "peak gains". If nothing else, we'll offer both so that consumers can have that much more information. Comparing competing manufacturers claims is always a challenge. Getting accurate, objective, unbiased information is not easy. I would welcome Consumer Report to do a comparison between our system and those of others. Does anyone have dyno charts of some of our competitors. How do they stack up to their claims?

As for your comment "it didn't make that much", how much is enough for the investment of an air intake system? What is a reasonable cost per horsepower gained?