21HP 19 FT Torque! On the 350Z
09-16-2005, 01:11 PM
#501
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Originally Posted by undrgnd
I already smell a rat.
I mean I know he should be totaly dedicated to our every whim, but I guess he is caught up in things like job, getting paid, eating, roof over his head, etc............
We will get the straight scoop shortly I'm sure.
09-16-2005, 02:56 PM
#507
The AFE Magnum Intake is a Short Ram intake with Heat Shield Box. This intake has some features that have not been seen before on the Z33 as well as things we have seen before that have been improved on.
Included with the kit:
AFE Powder coated Aluminum Intake Tubing with Integrated Mass Air Flow Sensor Housing
Urethane Coupler for Intake Tube to Throttle Body
Heat Shield Housing w/ Weather Stripping
3 Stage Velocity Stack
All needed required clamps, screws, & installation instructions.
Our test unit had 2 types of filters.
Closed ended carbon fiber capped filter with 4 ply filter.
Open ended filter with 5 ply progressive filter.
The Construction.
Materials used in the construction of this intake are top notch. Everything is made specifically for this intake system and uses no universal couplers.
Starting from the front of the intake. The Open Ended intake filter (which made more power) measures 23" circumference which tapers down to 17.5" circumference and is 5" long. The front opening is 3.25" Diameter and goes down 2.75". The filter then clamps onto a CNC machined Velocity Stack which also connects to the Filter Box. The Velocity Stack connects to the intake tubing by a press form o-ring connection. The Inner Diameter of the Intake Tube matches Perfectly with the connection point on the velocity stack making a seamless connection.
The Mass Air Flow Sensor housing is integrated into the intake tube as well as the Crank Case Blow By. The intake tubing is straight and direct. It is also a smaller diameter tube then the stock "Z-Tube." The Intake tube then connects to the Urethane Coupler by 2 clamps. The Inner Diameter of the Coupler matches the inlet of the throttle body as well.
Here is a short write up by Eddie Takahashi one of our employee's on the installation he experienced on his 350Z Roadster.
The AFE Magnum Force 350Z intake installation was quite simple and straight forward, pretty much like any other intake install, but I have a found a few small glitches that might be of concern to some. First off I have found that the AC hard lines get very close to the AFE steel heat shield box, that I for one think that over time when the engine rocks back and forth during normal driving could eat through the aluminum hard lines. What I ended up doing is slightly bending the hard lines a few millimeters towards the passenger side to give it enough clearance. Second issue I have come across is that the AFE steel heat shield sits too tall so it allows the rubber weather-strip to hit the hood and does not offer enough clearance to let the hood seat leveled therefore the hood sits higher on the drivers side then the passenger side, we have tried repositioning the heat shield box several different ways with no success. Last but not least the factory Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor uses a special 6 pointed Allen type screws that has a special stud in the middle, this may have been set up this way so the MAF would not be altered in anyway. We got around this by cutting off the middle stud so we can use a conventional alley key wrench, removal of the strut bar is not necessary. Overall I would rate this AFE intake to have good quality materials and design aside from a few flaws that needs to be addressed.
And now for the Dyno...
We tested this with a 2004 350Z Touring Roadster w/ Navi totally stock.
Baseline run made 241.31 RWHP / 231.86 Ft-lbs Torque. This is a fairly high base line.
AFE w/ Small CF Filter 244.19 RWHP / 238.12 Ft-lbs Torque.
AFE w/ Larger Filter 245.01 RWHP / 238.23 Ft-lbs Torque.
What caught us by surprise is the high Baseline numbers. I am putting this intake on my car which is modified and taking it to the same dyno where I did my last run. The only thing that will be changed is the intake so we can see what happens there.
The intake defiantly makes some power. Its sound is strong and loud when it is compared to other short ram intakes. The intake tubing gets warm but not hot to the touch.
Now its time to see what it will do on a modified Z33!
Performance NISSAN dyno comparing Baseline, Small Filter, Large Filter
AFE Dyno that has been posted before but I had them correct the scalling so it can be read easier.
** Dyno's done at expense of Performance NISSAN by Performance NISSAN at R&D Dyno Tuning. Intake systems supplied by AFE Advanced FLOW Engineering. Intake systems tested include 350Z, Frontier 4.0L, & Titan. **
Included with the kit:
AFE Powder coated Aluminum Intake Tubing with Integrated Mass Air Flow Sensor Housing
Urethane Coupler for Intake Tube to Throttle Body
Heat Shield Housing w/ Weather Stripping
3 Stage Velocity Stack
All needed required clamps, screws, & installation instructions.
Our test unit had 2 types of filters.
Closed ended carbon fiber capped filter with 4 ply filter.
Open ended filter with 5 ply progressive filter.
The Construction.
Materials used in the construction of this intake are top notch. Everything is made specifically for this intake system and uses no universal couplers.
Starting from the front of the intake. The Open Ended intake filter (which made more power) measures 23" circumference which tapers down to 17.5" circumference and is 5" long. The front opening is 3.25" Diameter and goes down 2.75". The filter then clamps onto a CNC machined Velocity Stack which also connects to the Filter Box. The Velocity Stack connects to the intake tubing by a press form o-ring connection. The Inner Diameter of the Intake Tube matches Perfectly with the connection point on the velocity stack making a seamless connection.
The Mass Air Flow Sensor housing is integrated into the intake tube as well as the Crank Case Blow By. The intake tubing is straight and direct. It is also a smaller diameter tube then the stock "Z-Tube." The Intake tube then connects to the Urethane Coupler by 2 clamps. The Inner Diameter of the Coupler matches the inlet of the throttle body as well.
Here is a short write up by Eddie Takahashi one of our employee's on the installation he experienced on his 350Z Roadster.
The AFE Magnum Force 350Z intake installation was quite simple and straight forward, pretty much like any other intake install, but I have a found a few small glitches that might be of concern to some. First off I have found that the AC hard lines get very close to the AFE steel heat shield box, that I for one think that over time when the engine rocks back and forth during normal driving could eat through the aluminum hard lines. What I ended up doing is slightly bending the hard lines a few millimeters towards the passenger side to give it enough clearance. Second issue I have come across is that the AFE steel heat shield sits too tall so it allows the rubber weather-strip to hit the hood and does not offer enough clearance to let the hood seat leveled therefore the hood sits higher on the drivers side then the passenger side, we have tried repositioning the heat shield box several different ways with no success. Last but not least the factory Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor uses a special 6 pointed Allen type screws that has a special stud in the middle, this may have been set up this way so the MAF would not be altered in anyway. We got around this by cutting off the middle stud so we can use a conventional alley key wrench, removal of the strut bar is not necessary. Overall I would rate this AFE intake to have good quality materials and design aside from a few flaws that needs to be addressed.
And now for the Dyno...
We tested this with a 2004 350Z Touring Roadster w/ Navi totally stock.
Baseline run made 241.31 RWHP / 231.86 Ft-lbs Torque. This is a fairly high base line.
AFE w/ Small CF Filter 244.19 RWHP / 238.12 Ft-lbs Torque.
AFE w/ Larger Filter 245.01 RWHP / 238.23 Ft-lbs Torque.
What caught us by surprise is the high Baseline numbers. I am putting this intake on my car which is modified and taking it to the same dyno where I did my last run. The only thing that will be changed is the intake so we can see what happens there.
The intake defiantly makes some power. Its sound is strong and loud when it is compared to other short ram intakes. The intake tubing gets warm but not hot to the touch.
Now its time to see what it will do on a modified Z33!
Performance NISSAN dyno comparing Baseline, Small Filter, Large Filter
AFE Dyno that has been posted before but I had them correct the scalling so it can be read easier.
** Dyno's done at expense of Performance NISSAN by Performance NISSAN at R&D Dyno Tuning. Intake systems supplied by AFE Advanced FLOW Engineering. Intake systems tested include 350Z, Frontier 4.0L, & Titan. **
09-16-2005, 03:21 PM
#508
Peak gain of 3.7 hp and torque of 6.4 ft/lb. About what was expected.
I think the intake would make better gains on a stock Z. Once a Z has been modified, there is some sort of synergy that reduces subsequent modifications. Each mod does not add the same gain one would see if it stood alone after installation on a stock Z. For every subsequent modification, the effective gains are marginalized.
In my opinion, the Mustang dyno is worthless. It's why AFE was coming up with all these screwy estimates in power.
I think the intake is worthwhile as a modification if it were more competively priced. I'd buy it if it were in the $150 to $200 range since it seems to be a quality manufacture and the parts look like they are well made. Better manufactured than JWT from the looks of it.
Thank you for clearing everything up Jason and for taking the time to do all this. Kudos to Performance Nissan for footing the dyno costs and to AFE for allowing a true independent test.
I think the intake would make better gains on a stock Z. Once a Z has been modified, there is some sort of synergy that reduces subsequent modifications. Each mod does not add the same gain one would see if it stood alone after installation on a stock Z. For every subsequent modification, the effective gains are marginalized.
In my opinion, the Mustang dyno is worthless. It's why AFE was coming up with all these screwy estimates in power.
I think the intake is worthwhile as a modification if it were more competively priced. I'd buy it if it were in the $150 to $200 range since it seems to be a quality manufacture and the parts look like they are well made. Better manufactured than JWT from the looks of it.
Thank you for clearing everything up Jason and for taking the time to do all this. Kudos to Performance Nissan for footing the dyno costs and to AFE for allowing a true independent test.
09-16-2005, 03:23 PM
#509
Originally Posted by hfm
Peak gain of 3.7 hp and torque of 6.4 ft/lb. About what was expected.
I think the intake would make better gains on a stock Z. Once a Z has been modified, there is some sort of synergy that reduces subsequent modifications. Each mod does not add the same gain one would see if it stood alone after installation on a stock Z. For every subsequent modification, the effective gains are marginalized.
I think the intake would make better gains on a stock Z. Once a Z has been modified, there is some sort of synergy that reduces subsequent modifications. Each mod does not add the same gain one would see if it stood alone after installation on a stock Z. For every subsequent modification, the effective gains are marginalized.
09-16-2005, 03:27 PM
#510
No kidding? I guess I need to read more carefully:
Oh well, so much for that theory. I expect it to show less gains when put on a modded car. It would be nice if that's incorrect but I guess we just have to wait and see.
Originally Posted by Jason@performance
We tested this with a 2004 350Z Touring Roadster w/ Navi totally stock.
09-16-2005, 03:29 PM
#511
Originally Posted by hfm
No kidding? I guess I need to read more carefully:
Oh well, so much for that theory. I expect it to show less gains when put on a modded car. It would be nice if that's incorrect but I guess we just have to wait and see.
Oh well, so much for that theory. I expect it to show less gains when put on a modded car. It would be nice if that's incorrect but I guess we just have to wait and see.
The baseline was so high on this car... If the baseline was the average I wonder what it would have done... That has me thinking...
09-16-2005, 03:52 PM
#513
I remember seeing gains and losses with the popcharger. The only thing I'm sure about with the JWT is the fact that it's cheaper and sounds nice. I seem to remember a slew of dynos a couple of years ago for the JWT but I had a hard time finding them after searching. One thing I am sure of, I wouldn't say that it definitely creates more power, especially if the only gains I could find after a quick search were from NissanPerformanceMag.Com.
09-16-2005, 04:37 PM
#515
Originally Posted by hfm
I remember seeing gains and losses with the popcharger. The only thing I'm sure about with the JWT is the fact that it's cheaper and sounds nice. I seem to remember a slew of dynos a couple of years ago for the JWT but I had a hard time finding them after searching. One thing I am sure of, I wouldn't say that it definitely creates more power, especially if the only gains I could find after a quick search were from NissanPerformanceMag.Com.
09-16-2005, 04:46 PM
#517
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did you at least reset the ecm and drive the car around with the recommended drive they say... seems good but mine seemed better oh well thread is over now
09-16-2005, 05:12 PM
#519
Originally Posted by nissansource
did you at least reset the ecm and drive the car around with the recommended drive they say... seems good but mine seemed better oh well thread is over now
...what a tool. 4 hp, not 21. Get over it. I got as much from my K&N drop-in lol. 4 hp out of 240 is probably within the tolerance of the dyno anyway. How many runs were performed for each instance? For all we know it may have lost power on the average.
jason,
did you mean that the AFE had a smaller inside ID than stock? If so, wouldn't that throw off the final A/F since the MAF is depending on the stock tube diameter? did you check any A/F during any of the runs? wouldn't a smaller tube richen it up?
Last edited by undrgnd; 09-16-2005 at 05:18 PM.
09-16-2005, 05:32 PM
#520
Originally Posted by dave079
Exactly. What a waste. Now where is AFE to make some half a$$ed excues about it now? Thats about 17hp less than advertised. False Advertising!
There is something else...
Ever since the split second after this dyno I have been trying to decide the best way to break this...
The car we used was a 04.5... Every other car I have dyno'ed has been a 03 and early 04... They never had baselines this high...
They reacted to the most common intake mod like every other 350Z we have dynoed (03-04, not 04.5).
But, we also tested this intake on this 2004.5 roadster and it made almost 8RWHP LESS then the baseline dyno.
The AFE definatly made HP while this other intake did not... Just to make sure, we put the other intake back on and it made the exact same numbers as it did before dyno'ing the AFE...
So knowing this, I am looking at the AFE differently because it actually made something while this other lost...
But that is for another thread, this thread is about the AFE...
I would like to do this same dyno testing on an 03... but I couldnt get any stock 03's and I simply dont know any stock 03 / early 04's... all my friends with 350z's male and female have modded z's for some reason :P