hks knock off
12-05-2006, 03:21 PM
#81
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that's funny...
The last time I got props for taking one for the team, it involved "the ugly friend"... Hopefully I wont get as many wise cracks about my fake hks.
12-05-2006, 08:06 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by dcrobfukk
The last time I got props for taking one for the team, it involved "the ugly friend"... Hopefully I wont get as many wise cracks about my fake hks.
12-06-2006, 05:01 AM
#85
Originally Posted by gringott
You make an awful lot of assumptions for someone who does not work for HKS or the "clone" maker.
Why does HKS have to have inspections for quailty control and the other not?
Look for threads with HKS problems on this forum, if they have this quailty control why are they having problems?
Why does HKS have to have inspections for quailty control and the other not?
Look for threads with HKS problems on this forum, if they have this quailty control why are they having problems?
12-06-2006, 05:04 AM
#86
Originally Posted by taurran
I hadn't bothered listening to the clip in the link on that yet, but I just did and think it sounds better than the actual HKS exhaust (at least for that video). I'd be interested in seeing a first hand review of the actual part, until then I'm not going to make the assumption that it would fall apart any faster than the HKS piece.
12-06-2006, 10:12 AM
#87
Originally Posted by Diesel350
I have not had a single problem on mine since last november. What are these problems you speak of?
Having to remove a broken item on an exhaust makes it unusable until it comes back. So you can:
a. Not use the car until the replacement or repaired part comes back.
b. Replace the exhaust with your old one if you kept it, and then replace it again when the replacement or repaired part comes back.
c. Have the part fixed by yourself or a shop, i.e., re weld the part or do a fix such as grinding or creasing the part that hits on the differential.
In the first two cases, using the warranty would be crazy unless you never drive your car, or your time is worthless. The third option, C, is the most practical, and undoubtedly the cheapest unless you do everything yourself and value your time as nothing.
I can't break it down any more than that. The problems do exist on the HKS, not of course every set, but they are there. If you haven't had them, good for you. The point I was trying to make is that the warranty is of no value as compared to the "clone", at least logic tells us this. If you have emotional connection to HKS, and emotionally feel you will get a better product because a worthless (logically) warranty exists, more power to you.
At half the price, if I had to choose between the two systems (I don't - don't want either), I would choose the "clone" based on the information we have now. The cost of the HKS (from $1200 shipped to >$1500 shipped) vs. "clone" ($500 plus shipping) pays for a lot of cash in my bank account to use to repair any broken welds or "pipe creasing" or "flange grinding", vs. the HKS warranty which, IMO, is worthless.
Your mileage may vary. But try to apply logic to it.
There is a reason companies sell warranties. They are a huge profit maker, sometimes exceeding the profit on the item. If you don't know that, I recommend you research the issue.
12-06-2006, 10:51 AM
#88
Originally Posted by gringott
Do a search. At least two people have had the middle section hanger weld break off the pipe, and many have had the system hit on the differential. I'm not saying it's junk, I'm saying that there are problems, and the warranty is not of much help. As posted by users on this forum, you must return the item to HKS before you get a new or repaired one.
Having to remove a broken item on an exhaust makes it unusable until it comes back. So you can:
a. Not use the car until the replacement or repaired part comes back.
b. Replace the exhaust with your old one if you kept it, and then replace it again when the replacement or repaired part comes back.
c. Have the part fixed by yourself or a shop, i.e., re weld the part or do a fix such as grinding or creasing the part that hits on the differential.
In the first two cases, using the warranty would be crazy unless you never drive your car, or your time is worthless. The third option, C, is the most practical, and undoubtedly the cheapest unless you do everything yourself and value your time as nothing.
I can't break it down any more than that. The problems do exist on the HKS, not of course every set, but they are there. If you haven't had them, good for you. The point I was trying to make is that the warranty is of no value as compared to the "clone", at least logic tells us this. If you have emotional connection to HKS, and emotionally feel you will get a better product because a worthless (logically) warranty exists, more power to you.
At half the price, if I had to choose between the two systems (I don't - don't want either), I would choose the "clone" based on the information we have now. The cost of the HKS (from $1200 shipped to >$1500 shipped) vs. "clone" ($500 plus shipping) pays for a lot of cash in my bank account to use to repair any broken welds or "pipe creasing" or "flange grinding", vs. the HKS warranty which, IMO, is worthless.
Your mileage may vary. But try to apply logic to it.
There is a reason companies sell warranties. They are a huge profit maker, sometimes exceeding the profit on the item. If you don't know that, I recommend you research the issue.
Having to remove a broken item on an exhaust makes it unusable until it comes back. So you can:
a. Not use the car until the replacement or repaired part comes back.
b. Replace the exhaust with your old one if you kept it, and then replace it again when the replacement or repaired part comes back.
c. Have the part fixed by yourself or a shop, i.e., re weld the part or do a fix such as grinding or creasing the part that hits on the differential.
In the first two cases, using the warranty would be crazy unless you never drive your car, or your time is worthless. The third option, C, is the most practical, and undoubtedly the cheapest unless you do everything yourself and value your time as nothing.
I can't break it down any more than that. The problems do exist on the HKS, not of course every set, but they are there. If you haven't had them, good for you. The point I was trying to make is that the warranty is of no value as compared to the "clone", at least logic tells us this. If you have emotional connection to HKS, and emotionally feel you will get a better product because a worthless (logically) warranty exists, more power to you.
At half the price, if I had to choose between the two systems (I don't - don't want either), I would choose the "clone" based on the information we have now. The cost of the HKS (from $1200 shipped to >$1500 shipped) vs. "clone" ($500 plus shipping) pays for a lot of cash in my bank account to use to repair any broken welds or "pipe creasing" or "flange grinding", vs. the HKS warranty which, IMO, is worthless.
Your mileage may vary. But try to apply logic to it.
There is a reason companies sell warranties. They are a huge profit maker, sometimes exceeding the profit on the item. If you don't know that, I recommend you research the issue.
You also referred to the welds and how they can be fixed with the money you save from buying the "clone", but what about the canisters? Yes they sound allright now but what about in 5k miles when the inside material wears out and the exhaust heat and condensation corrodes the inside?
If we don't know the exact materials the mufflers and resonators are made of, we cannot pick and choose.
Megan racing test pipes also "look" great, but the 2nd day I had it the resonators made noise. Just goes to show the difference in quality, not only in the welds but in the canisters and resonators themselves.
12-06-2006, 10:51 AM
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Im just waiting on someone to buy this thing. It always look good in pics, but when you get it it never looks like the pictures. If it does look like the pictures normally breaks on ya in a few 100 miles.
12-06-2006, 10:58 AM
#90
Originally Posted by k3silk
Im just waiting on someone to buy this thing. It always look good in pics, but when you get it it never looks like the pictures. If it does look like the pictures normally breaks on ya in a few 100 miles.
12-06-2006, 11:27 AM
#91
Improper installation is the only excuse for the exhaust hitting differential or suspension components.
That is not what I hear in this case. Research for yourself. Pretty broad, sweeping judgment. HKS can do no wrong?????
You also referred to the welds and how they can be fixed with the money you save from buying the "clone", but what about the canisters? Yes they sound alright now but what about in 5k miles when the inside material wears out and the exhaust heat and condensation corrodes the inside?
I only mentioned the welds because HKS itself has had that problem, assuming the clone is no better, it could have the same problems. Good point about the cannisters, if it is true. We don't know, meaning you and I. Only time will tell, if the people who have purchased the "clone" inform us. But to judge automatically that it is only good for 5K miles is a mistake, IMO. Show me the proof you have assembled that this is the case on this exact system.
If we don't know the exact materials the mufflers and resonators are made of, on both systems, then we cannot determine which will last longer.
Megan racing test pipes also "look" great, but the 2nd day I had it the resonators made noise. Just goes to show the difference in quality, not only in the welds but in the canisters and resonators themselves.
1. This is not Megan.
2. Others have a different experience. Perhaps you have a install problem?
3. I bought some resonated TPs that were CHEAPER than Megans and have had Zero problems. As I said, the buyer's experience varies from set to set. Until we have data that shows what you are claiming we cannot assume you are 100% correct.
Your logic is lacking, IMO.
Do you only buy Rolex watches because of the warranty and superior materials?
Why do you own a Z when there are much better sports cars with better materials and better warranties?
I understand that some parts may be sub-par. When a product is more than twice the price, we have to take a closer look.
HKS is not without defects, just going by the posts on this one forum, and those who have chosen to report those problems. How many did not?
HKS is making a giant profit on this exhaust, which I tried to show by highlighting the wasteful, non-targeted advertising they are doing. Good for them, but it shows that there IS a high profit.
The "clone" maker is not advertising at all, in addition has reduced operating costs.
Could the "clone" maker be making the exhaust in the same plant? It certainly is not unknown, ask someone in the industry.
You seem to have an emotional attachment to "authentic" "major brand" Japanese car parts. There is no arguing with emotion. If that is what makes HKS better than this clone for you, then no logic can change your mind.
Try to use logic. Until we have more facts, at this point, logic tells us that the "clone" is the better buy. Again, I don't want either one. The problems with the warranty @ HKS (as I outlined before) combined with the hype and high price steered me away.
I'm having trouble believing you don't work for or are associated with HKS or a parts house.
That is not what I hear in this case. Research for yourself. Pretty broad, sweeping judgment. HKS can do no wrong?????
You also referred to the welds and how they can be fixed with the money you save from buying the "clone", but what about the canisters? Yes they sound alright now but what about in 5k miles when the inside material wears out and the exhaust heat and condensation corrodes the inside?
I only mentioned the welds because HKS itself has had that problem, assuming the clone is no better, it could have the same problems. Good point about the cannisters, if it is true. We don't know, meaning you and I. Only time will tell, if the people who have purchased the "clone" inform us. But to judge automatically that it is only good for 5K miles is a mistake, IMO. Show me the proof you have assembled that this is the case on this exact system.
If we don't know the exact materials the mufflers and resonators are made of, on both systems, then we cannot determine which will last longer.
Megan racing test pipes also "look" great, but the 2nd day I had it the resonators made noise. Just goes to show the difference in quality, not only in the welds but in the canisters and resonators themselves.
1. This is not Megan.
2. Others have a different experience. Perhaps you have a install problem?
3. I bought some resonated TPs that were CHEAPER than Megans and have had Zero problems. As I said, the buyer's experience varies from set to set. Until we have data that shows what you are claiming we cannot assume you are 100% correct.
Your logic is lacking, IMO.
Do you only buy Rolex watches because of the warranty and superior materials?
Why do you own a Z when there are much better sports cars with better materials and better warranties?
I understand that some parts may be sub-par. When a product is more than twice the price, we have to take a closer look.
HKS is not without defects, just going by the posts on this one forum, and those who have chosen to report those problems. How many did not?
HKS is making a giant profit on this exhaust, which I tried to show by highlighting the wasteful, non-targeted advertising they are doing. Good for them, but it shows that there IS a high profit.
The "clone" maker is not advertising at all, in addition has reduced operating costs.
Could the "clone" maker be making the exhaust in the same plant? It certainly is not unknown, ask someone in the industry.
You seem to have an emotional attachment to "authentic" "major brand" Japanese car parts. There is no arguing with emotion. If that is what makes HKS better than this clone for you, then no logic can change your mind.
Try to use logic. Until we have more facts, at this point, logic tells us that the "clone" is the better buy. Again, I don't want either one. The problems with the warranty @ HKS (as I outlined before) combined with the hype and high price steered me away.
I'm having trouble believing you don't work for or are associated with HKS or a parts house.
12-06-2006, 12:00 PM
#92
Originally Posted by gringott
Improper installation is the only excuse for the exhaust hitting differential or suspension components.
That is not what I hear in this case. Research for yourself. Pretty broad, sweeping judgment. HKS can do no wrong?????
My greddy evo2 exhaust was the same way, it would hit a few parts if you didn't install it correctly. Proper installation is putting all the pieces on the car but hand tightening them and making sure they have good clearances. If it doesn't fit correct because of a defect, then you return it. Why would anybody install something that doesn't fit correctly?
You also referred to the welds and how they can be fixed with the money you save from buying the "clone", but what about the canisters? Yes they sound alright now but what about in 5k miles when the inside material wears out and the exhaust heat and condensation corrodes the inside?
I only mentioned the welds because HKS itself has had that problem, assuming the clone is no better, it could have the same problems. Good point about the cannisters, if it is true. We don't know, meaning you and I. Only time will tell, if the people who have purchased the "clone" inform us. But to judge automatically that it is only good for 5K miles is a mistake, IMO. Show me the proof you have assembled that this is the case on this exact system.
If we don't know the exact materials the mufflers and resonators are made of, on both systems, then we cannot determine which will last longer.
Since you say I shouldn't be quick to judge, then you shouldn't either. You stated you would pick the clone over the real HKS, so how is that not choosing sides? I do agree with you on the "which exhaust would I choose" answer, I wouldn't get either because one is too pricey, and one is of a lesser quality.
Megan racing test pipes also "look" great, but the 2nd day I had it the resonators made noise. Just goes to show the difference in quality, not only in the welds but in the canisters and resonators themselves.
1. This is not Megan.
2. Others have a different experience. Perhaps you have a install problem?
3. I bought some resonated TPs that were CHEAPER than Megans and have had Zero problems. As I said, the buyer's experience varies from set to set. Until we have data that shows what you are claiming we cannot assume you are 100% correct.
1.Megan racing is basically a no named brand just like many others on ebay.
2. I didn't have a install problem, the resonators made noise which has nothing to do with a installation.
3.Yes you got lucky, but not everyone is that lucky.
Your logic is lacking, IMO.
Do you only buy Rolex watches because of the warranty and superior materials?
I don't buy stuff because it is expensive, btw I hate rolex watches, seiko and diesel is fine for me.
Why do you own a Z when there are much better sports cars with better materials and better warranties?
Because the Z is affordable and meets my modding disease. haha
I understand that some parts may be sub-par. When a product is more than twice the price, we have to take a closer look.
HKS is not without defects, just going by the posts on this one forum, and those who have chosen to report those problems. How many did not?
HKS is making a giant profit on this exhaust, which I tried to show by highlighting the wasteful, non-targeted advertising they are doing. Good for them, but it shows that there IS a high profit.
The "clone" maker is not advertising at all, in addition has reduced operating costs.
Could the "clone" maker be making the exhaust in the same plant? It certainly is not unknown, ask someone in the industry.
You seem to have an emotional attachment to "authentic" "major brand" Japanese car parts. There is no arguing with emotion. If that is what makes HKS better than this clone for you, then no logic can change your mind.
I have an emotional attachment to "authentic" brands? Do you even know what I have on my Z? Let me list my "non-authentic" brands. I have a shine auto nismo V2 replica front bumper, rota P45R fake nismo style wheels, evo-r carbon fiber intake tube (which probably copies some big japanese company), a chopped up greddy evo2 exhaust.
Try to use logic. Until we have more facts, at this point, logic tells us that the "clone" is the better buy. Again, I don't want either one. The problems with the warranty @ HKS (as I outlined before) combined with the hype and high price steered me away.
I'm having trouble believing you don't work for or are associated with HKS or a parts house.
That is not what I hear in this case. Research for yourself. Pretty broad, sweeping judgment. HKS can do no wrong?????
My greddy evo2 exhaust was the same way, it would hit a few parts if you didn't install it correctly. Proper installation is putting all the pieces on the car but hand tightening them and making sure they have good clearances. If it doesn't fit correct because of a defect, then you return it. Why would anybody install something that doesn't fit correctly?
You also referred to the welds and how they can be fixed with the money you save from buying the "clone", but what about the canisters? Yes they sound alright now but what about in 5k miles when the inside material wears out and the exhaust heat and condensation corrodes the inside?
I only mentioned the welds because HKS itself has had that problem, assuming the clone is no better, it could have the same problems. Good point about the cannisters, if it is true. We don't know, meaning you and I. Only time will tell, if the people who have purchased the "clone" inform us. But to judge automatically that it is only good for 5K miles is a mistake, IMO. Show me the proof you have assembled that this is the case on this exact system.
If we don't know the exact materials the mufflers and resonators are made of, on both systems, then we cannot determine which will last longer.
Since you say I shouldn't be quick to judge, then you shouldn't either. You stated you would pick the clone over the real HKS, so how is that not choosing sides? I do agree with you on the "which exhaust would I choose" answer, I wouldn't get either because one is too pricey, and one is of a lesser quality.
Megan racing test pipes also "look" great, but the 2nd day I had it the resonators made noise. Just goes to show the difference in quality, not only in the welds but in the canisters and resonators themselves.
1. This is not Megan.
2. Others have a different experience. Perhaps you have a install problem?
3. I bought some resonated TPs that were CHEAPER than Megans and have had Zero problems. As I said, the buyer's experience varies from set to set. Until we have data that shows what you are claiming we cannot assume you are 100% correct.
1.Megan racing is basically a no named brand just like many others on ebay.
2. I didn't have a install problem, the resonators made noise which has nothing to do with a installation.
3.Yes you got lucky, but not everyone is that lucky.
Your logic is lacking, IMO.
Do you only buy Rolex watches because of the warranty and superior materials?
I don't buy stuff because it is expensive, btw I hate rolex watches, seiko and diesel is fine for me.
Why do you own a Z when there are much better sports cars with better materials and better warranties?
Because the Z is affordable and meets my modding disease. haha
I understand that some parts may be sub-par. When a product is more than twice the price, we have to take a closer look.
HKS is not without defects, just going by the posts on this one forum, and those who have chosen to report those problems. How many did not?
HKS is making a giant profit on this exhaust, which I tried to show by highlighting the wasteful, non-targeted advertising they are doing. Good for them, but it shows that there IS a high profit.
The "clone" maker is not advertising at all, in addition has reduced operating costs.
Could the "clone" maker be making the exhaust in the same plant? It certainly is not unknown, ask someone in the industry.
You seem to have an emotional attachment to "authentic" "major brand" Japanese car parts. There is no arguing with emotion. If that is what makes HKS better than this clone for you, then no logic can change your mind.
I have an emotional attachment to "authentic" brands? Do you even know what I have on my Z? Let me list my "non-authentic" brands. I have a shine auto nismo V2 replica front bumper, rota P45R fake nismo style wheels, evo-r carbon fiber intake tube (which probably copies some big japanese company), a chopped up greddy evo2 exhaust.
Try to use logic. Until we have more facts, at this point, logic tells us that the "clone" is the better buy. Again, I don't want either one. The problems with the warranty @ HKS (as I outlined before) combined with the hype and high price steered me away.
I'm having trouble believing you don't work for or are associated with HKS or a parts house.
12-06-2006, 12:46 PM
#93
I don't work for HKS or CWEST or VERTEX or any other company you might have a problem with.
I don't have a problem with HKS (own some products, good quality, one has a design flaw), don't have a problem with CWEST or VERTEX (don't own any, would buy if I wanted something they had).
Just because you like "cheapo" products doesn't mean everybody should join you.
I don't like "cheapo" products, I see where there is a place for cheaper reproductions when the price is too high on the original and the quality or supply is not there. Generalizations is what you seem to operate on, you don't seem to be able to see any of the finer details. I could care less what you do, however, I see that you are trying to influence others using emotions and unsubstantiated "facts". That bothers me. So I pointed out the problems with your logic. Because you slavishly hand over your cash to Japanese companies that happen to be "popular" brands doesn't mean everybody should follow you.
I have been buying aftermarket parts for many years from various companies and I know that HKS, greddy, APEXi, nismo, ARC, are top notch products.
I have HKS, GReddy, NISMO products and know many people that do. I personally, as I have stated above, have a HKS product with a design flaw. I have received GReddy products that were cheap crap, and the "cheapo" version was available, and upon comparison, they were the exact same product - the "cheapo" was just missing the GReddy logo. Hmmm. I also know two different people who had GReddy SS "304" exhausts rust out in one season, and both swore to never buy GReddy again. My NISMO exhaust started getting noisy after two years, and investigation showed the flex joints came apart internally. Upon investigation on this forum, I discovered another user who had the same problem. Hmmmm. I have read, more than once, of defective APEXi products, on this forum and others. ARC I don't know, for those prices, they would have to include a BJ, and my wife would get jealous, so I can't buy ARC. And no one around her is stupid enough to pay double for a decal saying ARC.
My point is that all the top notch products you name, except ARC (to my knowledge), can have design or manufacturing problems. Buying a certain brand or name is no guarantee of perfect quality. I agree that vs. an unknown manufacturer, I personally would tend toward the name brand, but again, it is no guarantee.
Yes some might be more expensive than others but parts aren't cheap to create. It's a personal choice, you would choose a wet carbon seibon hood which might not fit too well compared to the next guy who might buy a varis dry carbon hood that will fit perfectly. Don't say there isn't a difference because there is and you know it. So stop hating on every damn company out there and just try to accept the fact that people can buy whatever they want.
You are doing your research! Great!
First, unfair comparison. You are comparing a "wet carbon" hood to a dry carbon hood? That is like comparing Rolex to Casio. Both keep time. Most likely the same accuracy. But the price is a bit different. Try Seibon to Veilside.
I decided on a Seibon "wet" carbon hood after:
1. I couldn't get the Veilside version in CF (wasn't out yet)
2. Members who got the last shipment of fiberglass Veilsides got them damaged or with fitment problems. Look up the posts. One guy in particular went through a nightmare with his, that cost money and time.
3. My hood fit as perfectly as I could desire, at least as good as any Veilside I have seen on our car, and much better than those who bought Veilside when I bought mine.
So what is your point? My hood fit and looks better than Veilside. And I saved money. Wow.
I don't hate on every company out there. Far from it. I own many products by your "Gods". But I am not a mindless follower. I do my research, try to get the best product for the least money.
Sometimes there is a difference in quality or fit or finish. I'm not arguing that. But sometimes the "clone" is better than the original. That is a fact.
And people can buy anything they want, you are right, that is a fact, even if you come in a thread with wild accusations against the product that they want, based on nothing but hate for non "JDM Gods" manufacturers.
It seems you are the one who cannot accept that people can purchase whatever they want. You want to limit the choice to the "JDM Gods" you slavishly follow.
And again, I don't follow your logic.
Do you buy clothes off the rack (cheapo) or do you buy tailor made clothes (authentic)?
Do you wear a Casio (cheapo) or a Rolex (authentic)?
Do you drive a Nissan (cheapo) or a Ferrari (authentic)?
Hmmmm.
I don't have a problem with HKS (own some products, good quality, one has a design flaw), don't have a problem with CWEST or VERTEX (don't own any, would buy if I wanted something they had).
Just because you like "cheapo" products doesn't mean everybody should join you.
I don't like "cheapo" products, I see where there is a place for cheaper reproductions when the price is too high on the original and the quality or supply is not there. Generalizations is what you seem to operate on, you don't seem to be able to see any of the finer details. I could care less what you do, however, I see that you are trying to influence others using emotions and unsubstantiated "facts". That bothers me. So I pointed out the problems with your logic. Because you slavishly hand over your cash to Japanese companies that happen to be "popular" brands doesn't mean everybody should follow you.
I have been buying aftermarket parts for many years from various companies and I know that HKS, greddy, APEXi, nismo, ARC, are top notch products.
I have HKS, GReddy, NISMO products and know many people that do. I personally, as I have stated above, have a HKS product with a design flaw. I have received GReddy products that were cheap crap, and the "cheapo" version was available, and upon comparison, they were the exact same product - the "cheapo" was just missing the GReddy logo. Hmmm. I also know two different people who had GReddy SS "304" exhausts rust out in one season, and both swore to never buy GReddy again. My NISMO exhaust started getting noisy after two years, and investigation showed the flex joints came apart internally. Upon investigation on this forum, I discovered another user who had the same problem. Hmmmm. I have read, more than once, of defective APEXi products, on this forum and others. ARC I don't know, for those prices, they would have to include a BJ, and my wife would get jealous, so I can't buy ARC. And no one around her is stupid enough to pay double for a decal saying ARC.
My point is that all the top notch products you name, except ARC (to my knowledge), can have design or manufacturing problems. Buying a certain brand or name is no guarantee of perfect quality. I agree that vs. an unknown manufacturer, I personally would tend toward the name brand, but again, it is no guarantee.
Yes some might be more expensive than others but parts aren't cheap to create. It's a personal choice, you would choose a wet carbon seibon hood which might not fit too well compared to the next guy who might buy a varis dry carbon hood that will fit perfectly. Don't say there isn't a difference because there is and you know it. So stop hating on every damn company out there and just try to accept the fact that people can buy whatever they want.
You are doing your research! Great!
First, unfair comparison. You are comparing a "wet carbon" hood to a dry carbon hood? That is like comparing Rolex to Casio. Both keep time. Most likely the same accuracy. But the price is a bit different. Try Seibon to Veilside.
I decided on a Seibon "wet" carbon hood after:
1. I couldn't get the Veilside version in CF (wasn't out yet)
2. Members who got the last shipment of fiberglass Veilsides got them damaged or with fitment problems. Look up the posts. One guy in particular went through a nightmare with his, that cost money and time.
3. My hood fit as perfectly as I could desire, at least as good as any Veilside I have seen on our car, and much better than those who bought Veilside when I bought mine.
So what is your point? My hood fit and looks better than Veilside. And I saved money. Wow.
I don't hate on every company out there. Far from it. I own many products by your "Gods". But I am not a mindless follower. I do my research, try to get the best product for the least money.
Sometimes there is a difference in quality or fit or finish. I'm not arguing that. But sometimes the "clone" is better than the original. That is a fact.
And people can buy anything they want, you are right, that is a fact, even if you come in a thread with wild accusations against the product that they want, based on nothing but hate for non "JDM Gods" manufacturers.
It seems you are the one who cannot accept that people can purchase whatever they want.
You want to limit the choice to the "JDM Gods" you slavishly follow. And again, I don't follow your logic.
Do you buy clothes off the rack (cheapo) or do you buy tailor made clothes (authentic)?
Do you wear a Casio (cheapo) or a Rolex (authentic)?
Do you drive a Nissan (cheapo) or a Ferrari (authentic)?
Hmmmm.
12-06-2006, 01:39 PM
#94
Originally Posted by gringott
I don't work for HKS or CWEST or VERTEX or any other company you might have a problem with.
I don't have a problem with HKS (own some products, good quality, one has a design flaw), don't have a problem with CWEST or VERTEX (don't own any, would buy if I wanted something they had).
Just because you like "cheapo" products doesn't mean everybody should join you.
I don't like "cheapo" products, I see where there is a place for cheaper reproductions when the price is too high on the original and the quality or supply is not there. Generalizations is what you seem to operate on, you don't seem to be able to see any of the finer details. I could care less what you do, however, I see that you are trying to influence others using emotions and unsubstantiated "facts". That bothers me. So I pointed out the problems with your logic. Because you slavishly hand over your cash to Japanese companies that happen to be "popular" brands doesn't mean everybody should follow you.
I have been buying aftermarket parts for many years from various companies and I know that HKS, greddy, APEXi, nismo, ARC, are top notch products.
I have HKS, GReddy, NISMO products and know many people that do. I personally, as I have stated above, have a HKS product with a design flaw. I have received GReddy products that were cheap crap, and the "cheapo" version was available, and upon comparison, they were the exact same product - the "cheapo" was just missing the GReddy logo. Hmmm. I also know two different people who had GReddy SS "304" exhausts rust out in one season, and both swore to never buy GReddy again. My NISMO exhaust started getting noisy after two years, and investigation showed the flex joints came apart internally. Upon investigation on this forum, I discovered another user who had the same problem. Hmmmm. I have read, more than once, of defective APEXi products, on this forum and others. ARC I don't know, for those prices, they would have to include a BJ, and my wife would get jealous, so I can't buy ARC. And no one around her is stupid enough to pay double for a decal saying ARC.
My point is that all the top notch products you name, except ARC (to my knowledge), can have design or manufacturing problems. Buying a certain brand or name is no guarantee of perfect quality. I agree that vs. an unknown manufacturer, I personally would tend toward the name brand, but again, it is no guarantee.
Yes some might be more expensive than others but parts aren't cheap to create. It's a personal choice, you would choose a wet carbon seibon hood which might not fit too well compared to the next guy who might buy a varis dry carbon hood that will fit perfectly. Don't say there isn't a difference because there is and you know it. So stop hating on every damn company out there and just try to accept the fact that people can buy whatever they want.
You are doing your research! Great!
First, unfair comparison. You are comparing a "wet carbon" hood to a dry carbon hood? That is like comparing Rolex to Casio. Both keep time. Most likely the same accuracy. But the price is a bit different. Try Seibon to Veilside.
I decided on a Seibon "wet" carbon hood after:
1. I couldn't get the Veilside version in CF (wasn't out yet)
2. Members who got the last shipment of fiberglass Veilsides got them damaged or with fitment problems. Look up the posts. One guy in particular went through a nightmare with his, that cost money and time.
3. My hood fit as perfectly as I could desire, at least as good as any Veilside I have seen on our car, and much better than those who bought Veilside when I bought mine.
So what is your point? My hood fit and looks better than Veilside. And I saved money. Wow.
I don't hate on every company out there. Far from it. I own many products by your "Gods". But I am not a mindless follower. I do my research, try to get the best product for the least money.
Sometimes there is a difference in quality or fit or finish. I'm not arguing that. But sometimes the "clone" is better than the original. That is a fact.
And people can buy anything they want, you are right, that is a fact, even if you come in a thread with wild accusations against the product that they want, based on nothing but hate for non "JDM Gods" manufacturers.
It seems you are the one who cannot accept that people can purchase whatever they want. You want to limit the choice to the "JDM Gods" you slavishly follow.
And again, I don't follow your logic.
Do you buy clothes off the rack (cheapo) or do you buy tailor made clothes (authentic)?
Do you wear a Casio (cheapo) or a Rolex (authentic)?
Do you drive a Nissan (cheapo) or a Ferrari (authentic)?
Hmmmm.
I don't have a problem with HKS (own some products, good quality, one has a design flaw), don't have a problem with CWEST or VERTEX (don't own any, would buy if I wanted something they had).
Just because you like "cheapo" products doesn't mean everybody should join you.
I don't like "cheapo" products, I see where there is a place for cheaper reproductions when the price is too high on the original and the quality or supply is not there. Generalizations is what you seem to operate on, you don't seem to be able to see any of the finer details. I could care less what you do, however, I see that you are trying to influence others using emotions and unsubstantiated "facts". That bothers me. So I pointed out the problems with your logic. Because you slavishly hand over your cash to Japanese companies that happen to be "popular" brands doesn't mean everybody should follow you.
I have been buying aftermarket parts for many years from various companies and I know that HKS, greddy, APEXi, nismo, ARC, are top notch products.
I have HKS, GReddy, NISMO products and know many people that do. I personally, as I have stated above, have a HKS product with a design flaw. I have received GReddy products that were cheap crap, and the "cheapo" version was available, and upon comparison, they were the exact same product - the "cheapo" was just missing the GReddy logo. Hmmm. I also know two different people who had GReddy SS "304" exhausts rust out in one season, and both swore to never buy GReddy again. My NISMO exhaust started getting noisy after two years, and investigation showed the flex joints came apart internally. Upon investigation on this forum, I discovered another user who had the same problem. Hmmmm. I have read, more than once, of defective APEXi products, on this forum and others. ARC I don't know, for those prices, they would have to include a BJ, and my wife would get jealous, so I can't buy ARC. And no one around her is stupid enough to pay double for a decal saying ARC.
My point is that all the top notch products you name, except ARC (to my knowledge), can have design or manufacturing problems. Buying a certain brand or name is no guarantee of perfect quality. I agree that vs. an unknown manufacturer, I personally would tend toward the name brand, but again, it is no guarantee.
Yes some might be more expensive than others but parts aren't cheap to create. It's a personal choice, you would choose a wet carbon seibon hood which might not fit too well compared to the next guy who might buy a varis dry carbon hood that will fit perfectly. Don't say there isn't a difference because there is and you know it. So stop hating on every damn company out there and just try to accept the fact that people can buy whatever they want.
You are doing your research! Great!
First, unfair comparison. You are comparing a "wet carbon" hood to a dry carbon hood? That is like comparing Rolex to Casio. Both keep time. Most likely the same accuracy. But the price is a bit different. Try Seibon to Veilside.
I decided on a Seibon "wet" carbon hood after:
1. I couldn't get the Veilside version in CF (wasn't out yet)
2. Members who got the last shipment of fiberglass Veilsides got them damaged or with fitment problems. Look up the posts. One guy in particular went through a nightmare with his, that cost money and time.
3. My hood fit as perfectly as I could desire, at least as good as any Veilside I have seen on our car, and much better than those who bought Veilside when I bought mine.
So what is your point? My hood fit and looks better than Veilside. And I saved money. Wow.
I don't hate on every company out there. Far from it. I own many products by your "Gods". But I am not a mindless follower. I do my research, try to get the best product for the least money.
Sometimes there is a difference in quality or fit or finish. I'm not arguing that. But sometimes the "clone" is better than the original. That is a fact.
And people can buy anything they want, you are right, that is a fact, even if you come in a thread with wild accusations against the product that they want, based on nothing but hate for non "JDM Gods" manufacturers.
It seems you are the one who cannot accept that people can purchase whatever they want.
You want to limit the choice to the "JDM Gods" you slavishly follow. And again, I don't follow your logic.
Do you buy clothes off the rack (cheapo) or do you buy tailor made clothes (authentic)?
Do you wear a Casio (cheapo) or a Rolex (authentic)?
Do you drive a Nissan (cheapo) or a Ferrari (authentic)?
Hmmmm.
Now you're just being silly. You are comparing apples to oranges. Nissan to Ferrari c'mon, one is hand made with exact measurements with expensive parts and the other is a mass-produced vehicle made with average parts.
I understand some prices are rediculous on certain products, but thats what some people enjoy (the wow factor). Some like their bling (ARC), and some don't.
I didn't post on this thread trying to persuade buyers. I came on here trying to help new users with their thoughts. It seems as though everybody jumped on the bandwagon and said hey its so worth it and is much cheaper than HKS (basically badmouthing the brand), which isn't true. The HKS exhaust is a mass produced exhaust system and will have a few minor mishaps.
Think about it, there are only 50 clones made and 50,000 HKS exhausts made. You give us examples of a few people that had problems with the HKS exhaust but you need to realize if there is an abundance of quantity you will have a higher rate of failure.
All I wanted was one person to actually buy it, use it, and write a review on it. Thats all, i'm done with this childish back and forth argument with you. I don't have time to search through thousands of threads and find the failures in top "Japanese God" brands, as you say.
I understand stuff like top secret and those JDM companies aren't worth all the hoopla they get because of their price, but I have a lot of respect for companies who think outside of the box. Top secret being one of them, they have titanium headers for 6k dollars. Obviously nobody on this forum would spend that much, but they innovated a pretty cool product.
So bash all you want, I like replicas, I like authentics and I am not one to prejudge any company but HKS has a name, x01 racing or whatever this clone is doesn't.
12-06-2006, 01:50 PM
#95
Originally Posted by dTor
And what about all of the people that call you an idiot for paying $1k+ for some bent pipe and a couple of mufflers? Oh yeah, opinions, once again.
Opinions are like a$$holes - everybody has one and they all stink.
Opinions are like a$$holes - everybody has one and they all stink.
12-06-2006, 02:28 PM
#96
Now you're just being silly. You are comparing apples to oranges. Nissan to Ferrari c'mon, one is hand made with exact measurements with expensive parts and the other is a mass-produced vehicle made with average parts.
Hmmm. You accuse me of doing what you are doing.
Varis "Dry" carbon hood = $2,421 plus shipping
Seibon "Wet" carbon hood = $670 shipped.
HKS: $1200 to $1500
Noname: $500
That is why I did the comparison.
I understand some prices are rediculous on certain products, but thats what some people enjoy (the wow factor). Some like their bling (ARC), and some don't.
I didn't post on this thread trying to persuade buyers. I came on here trying to help new users with their thoughts. It seems as though everybody jumped on the bandwagon and said hey its so worth it and is much cheaper than HKS (basically badmouthing the brand), which isn't true. The HKS exhaust is a mass produced exhaust system and will have a few minor mishaps.
What is your point? Nobody started badmouthing HKS, the point was, hey, they look almost the same and the sound is good to some, and the price is way cheaper. I agree about HKS defects. No doubt, this is understood and no one (at least not I) am saying HKS is junk. I am saying it has defects also, defects we know about now. We don't know about the defects in the clone, yet. Pardon me, we know it was missing some screws for the tips.
Think about it, there are only 50 clones made and 50,000 HKS exhausts made. You give us examples of a few people that had problems with the HKS exhaust but you need to realize if there is an abundance of quantity you will have a higher rate of failure.
Good point. But we don't know how many clones have been or are going to be made. Perhaps they will have 10 times the defects, perhaps half. We don't know. The same could be said for your Megan TPs, they are mass produced and I am sure they make tons of them. You just happened to get the bad ones.
All I wanted was one person to actually buy it, use it, and write a review on it. Thats all, i'm done with this childish back and forth argument with you. I don't have time to search through thousands of threads and find the failures in top "Japanese God" brands, as you say.
Sounded more like you were knocking something that you didn't have any facts about. As if you were operating from emotion or something. I, on my part, tried to be logical and not childish. You may view it as you please and find information or not to back up your assertions. I prefer to operate based on facts. That is why I posted some, in the previous post.
I understand stuff like top secret and those JDM companies aren't worth all the hoopla they get because of their price, but I have a lot of respect for companies who think outside of the box. Top secret being one of them, they have titanium headers for 6k dollars. Obviously nobody on this forum would spend that much, but they innovated a pretty cool product.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. If I could afford $6K headers, I wouldn't be driving a Nissan. And trust me, there is somebody on these forums who would spend that much.
So bash all you want, I like replicas, I like authentics and I am not one to prejudge any company but HKS has a name, x01 racing or whatever this clone is doesn't.
I agree with you again, except for the bashing part. The only bashing was by you as far as the exhausts. You bashed the clone without any information except emotion. All I did was point out that there have been defects in the HKS system, and the way the warranty works, it is worthless.
Have a nice day!
P.S. Why would you put a car in your sig and a picture as your avatar that you no longer have? Just wondering.
Hmmm. You accuse me of doing what you are doing.
Varis "Dry" carbon hood = $2,421 plus shipping
Seibon "Wet" carbon hood = $670 shipped.
HKS: $1200 to $1500
Noname: $500
That is why I did the comparison.
I understand some prices are rediculous on certain products, but thats what some people enjoy (the wow factor). Some like their bling (ARC), and some don't.
I didn't post on this thread trying to persuade buyers. I came on here trying to help new users with their thoughts. It seems as though everybody jumped on the bandwagon and said hey its so worth it and is much cheaper than HKS (basically badmouthing the brand), which isn't true. The HKS exhaust is a mass produced exhaust system and will have a few minor mishaps.
What is your point? Nobody started badmouthing HKS, the point was, hey, they look almost the same and the sound is good to some, and the price is way cheaper. I agree about HKS defects. No doubt, this is understood and no one (at least not I) am saying HKS is junk. I am saying it has defects also, defects we know about now. We don't know about the defects in the clone, yet. Pardon me, we know it was missing some screws for the tips.
Think about it, there are only 50 clones made and 50,000 HKS exhausts made. You give us examples of a few people that had problems with the HKS exhaust but you need to realize if there is an abundance of quantity you will have a higher rate of failure.
Good point. But we don't know how many clones have been or are going to be made. Perhaps they will have 10 times the defects, perhaps half. We don't know. The same could be said for your Megan TPs, they are mass produced and I am sure they make tons of them. You just happened to get the bad ones.
All I wanted was one person to actually buy it, use it, and write a review on it. Thats all, i'm done with this childish back and forth argument with you. I don't have time to search through thousands of threads and find the failures in top "Japanese God" brands, as you say.
Sounded more like you were knocking something that you didn't have any facts about. As if you were operating from emotion or something. I, on my part, tried to be logical and not childish. You may view it as you please and find information or not to back up your assertions. I prefer to operate based on facts. That is why I posted some, in the previous post.
I understand stuff like top secret and those JDM companies aren't worth all the hoopla they get because of their price, but I have a lot of respect for companies who think outside of the box. Top secret being one of them, they have titanium headers for 6k dollars. Obviously nobody on this forum would spend that much, but they innovated a pretty cool product.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. If I could afford $6K headers, I wouldn't be driving a Nissan. And trust me, there is somebody on these forums who would spend that much.
So bash all you want, I like replicas, I like authentics and I am not one to prejudge any company but HKS has a name, x01 racing or whatever this clone is doesn't.
I agree with you again, except for the bashing part. The only bashing was by you as far as the exhausts. You bashed the clone without any information except emotion. All I did was point out that there have been defects in the HKS system, and the way the warranty works, it is worthless.
Have a nice day!
P.S. Why would you put a car in your sig and a picture as your avatar that you no longer have? Just wondering.
Last edited by gringott; 12-06-2006 at 02:31 PM.
12-06-2006, 03:18 PM
#97
Originally Posted by gringott
P.S. Why would you put a car in your sig and a picture as your avatar that you no longer have? Just wondering.
I put the Supra because I still think its a badass car, any arguments there? Or maybe I should have bought a clone to make you happy.
12-06-2006, 03:53 PM
#98
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lets just get some pics and sound clips!!! lol ...ppl will have their own opinions....no offense to anyone but who cares...ppl will always disagree!!! bump for pics and sound clips!
Last edited by litlechina; 12-06-2006 at 04:22 PM.
12-06-2006, 04:03 PM
#99
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Originally Posted by litlechina
lets just get some pics and sound clips!!! lol ...ppl will have their own opinions....no offense to anyone but who cars...ppl will always disagree!!! bump for pics and sound clips!
or bewbies
12-06-2006, 04:12 PM
#100
Originally Posted by 97supratt
Why would you put a picture of some dude (or you) looking through a side mirror?
I put the Supra because I still think its a badass car, any arguments there? Or maybe I should have bought a clone to make you happy.
I put the Supra because I still think its a badass car, any arguments there? Or maybe I should have bought a clone to make you happy.
Perhaps I should have a picture of the Lotus I used to own? No, I used to own it. Someone else has it now. I have moved on.
Question 2: Yes. It sucks and it is ugly. Not my idea of a badass car.
Question 3: Buy whatever you like. Just wondered why you can't let go of the past.
j/kBack to your regularly scheduled picture and sound file requests.