ITB's available soon
10-12-2007, 11:46 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Motormouth
why do people keep saying stock ECU? jeez...
More importantly, why would anyone spend 3500 on ITBs without spending the money on a decent ECU?
10-12-2007, 07:02 PM
#42
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Why wouldn't you just make it so that one side of the throttle bodies be controlled like the normal drive by wire, and than do a connecting rod from the bottom of that one to the top of the other banks bodies to eliminate the need for two throttle cables and simplify the kit? Why adapt what can be salvaged? Just my 2 cents on that theory... although a direct cable to the pedal would be nice in that you would have complete control...
10-12-2007, 07:52 PM
#43
Please make me this for $3.5k:
"Individial Throttle Body (ITB) Setup
Includes gold funnels, fuel rail, etc.
(requires ECU tuning)"
Top Secret makes a proper ITB setup. The air box is carbon fiber. $6k for the TS ITB's, I dunno how much the carbon airbox is.
"Individial Throttle Body (ITB) Setup
Includes gold funnels, fuel rail, etc.
(requires ECU tuning)"
Top Secret makes a proper ITB setup. The air box is carbon fiber. $6k for the TS ITB's, I dunno how much the carbon airbox is.
Last edited by jonnylaw; 10-12-2007 at 07:59 PM.
10-13-2007, 04:52 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by XIceDragonX
Why wouldn't you just make it so that one side of the throttle bodies be controlled like the normal drive by wire, and than do a connecting rod from the bottom of that one to the top of the other banks bodies to eliminate the need for two throttle cables and simplify the kit? Why adapt what can be salvaged? Just my 2 cents on that theory... although a direct cable to the pedal would be nice in that you would have complete control...
simple is a throttle cable operated setup....complex is a drive by wire one
let's just not mix words though...this is not a setup for a stock car, or a car with even bolt ons
10-13-2007, 04:54 AM
#47
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johnnylaw - that's essentially what this is. There are only a few ways to skin a cat
devilz - a long conversation to do here, but do some googling, etc on ITB+ turbo. It can be very rewarding, but requires the use of a standalone (need lots of resolution to do this properly on an FI car), and alot of patience with the tuning and setup of the ITB.
devilz - a long conversation to do here, but do some googling, etc on ITB+ turbo. It can be very rewarding, but requires the use of a standalone (need lots of resolution to do this properly on an FI car), and alot of patience with the tuning and setup of the ITB.
10-13-2007, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RudeG_v2.0
Ya, I began thinking about the Top Secret ITB setup too when this thread got started. I wonder what the difference(s) are between the Jenvey system and the Top Secret version (other than price of course
).
).
10-14-2007, 08:33 AM
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Lets put this to rest,
Using the stock ECU with this ITB system will never get the results you want.
As for running an airbox with a MAF sensor, not the hot setup,
they will not keep up with the gulp factor of the ITB's,
let alone work with the harmonics in the airbox, unless the airbox is huge.
(Meaning it won't fit under a 350Z hood).
Maf sensors want true one way airflow, you put any back flow or weird harmonics into the flow and you're hurtin, and hard to tune.
Will not work with Fly by wire,
too many throttle return springs for the e motor to work with,
and liability out the yingyang.
Would have to make up a vacuum tree of sorts for power brakes,
and or Map sensor.
$3500.oo for the ITB system and the airbox,
I will believe that when I see it,
and I'm the first of the Jenvey dealers in North America.
My pricing with the U.S. dollar right now puts the throttle system without any airbox or TPS at $3800.oo usd (retail pricing).
the U.S. dollar is dropping like a fly right now on world markets.
This system was supposedly designed for Nismo,
for Paris/Dakar and rally style racing.
LHP
www.haywardperformance.com
Using the stock ECU with this ITB system will never get the results you want.
As for running an airbox with a MAF sensor, not the hot setup,
they will not keep up with the gulp factor of the ITB's,
let alone work with the harmonics in the airbox, unless the airbox is huge.
(Meaning it won't fit under a 350Z hood).
Maf sensors want true one way airflow, you put any back flow or weird harmonics into the flow and you're hurtin, and hard to tune.
Will not work with Fly by wire,
too many throttle return springs for the e motor to work with,
and liability out the yingyang.
Would have to make up a vacuum tree of sorts for power brakes,
and or Map sensor.
$3500.oo for the ITB system and the airbox,
I will believe that when I see it,
and I'm the first of the Jenvey dealers in North America.
My pricing with the U.S. dollar right now puts the throttle system without any airbox or TPS at $3800.oo usd (retail pricing).
the U.S. dollar is dropping like a fly right now on world markets.
This system was supposedly designed for Nismo,
for Paris/Dakar and rally style racing.
LHP
www.haywardperformance.com
Last edited by LHP; 10-14-2007 at 08:37 AM.
10-14-2007, 09:47 AM
#51
Personally I like the Jenvey design better than the Top secret. It just seems more functional. While Top Secret makes some dope **** I think that their design is not as straight forward and simple as the Jenvey. My main draw back with the Top Secret is that no one can really tell what the transition plate from the throttle bodies to the heads looks like air flow wise. It could be just an oversized hole that creates turbulance at the ports on the head for all we know. You can see that the Jenvey unit, having completely cast runners, looks to have a straighter and more laminar flow through the runners and since it is a casting I would bet that the part that meets the heads is just slightly oversized to allow for ported and polished heads but is fairly symetrical to the design of the OEM ports.
Just my
Just my
10-14-2007, 09:53 AM
#52
Another thing that I just noticed is that if you look closely at the runners on the Jenvey unit right before they meet the heads they are slighlty bend downward right there. From just looking at the pictures this is a great design because it allows the injectors to still spray the back of the valves while being further up stream. The good thing about being upstream further is that at higher RPM's and air velocities the more time you have to atomize the fuel the better. There are a number of college Formula teams that have played around with staged injectors (one set close to the heads for low rpms and one set further from the head at high rpm for better atomization) and have had good resaults. Since this will most likely be used on a high revving motor I think that this is the better thought out design and they put more into it then just "making an ITB setup".
Looking at the Top Secret ITB's the main reason I think they went the route they did was to avoid making a casting or 5th axis machine something that they might sell two of considering their prices.
Looking at the Top Secret ITB's the main reason I think they went the route they did was to avoid making a casting or 5th axis machine something that they might sell two of considering their prices.
10-16-2007, 05:17 AM
#53
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When is Zxman going to post in this thread again & update us on when he will actually sell these & the throttle plate size? This thread is going to die if he doesn't join it again soon.
Last edited by xlr8r; 10-16-2007 at 06:29 AM.
10-16-2007, 08:45 AM
#57
Originally Posted by xlr8r
When is Zxman going to post in this thread again & update us on when he will actually sell these & the throttle plate size? This thread is going to die if he doesn't join it again soon.
To take some pics caress and hold them Chris
10-16-2007, 03:16 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by LHP
Lets put this to rest,
Using the stock ECU with this ITB system will never get the results you want.
As for running an airbox with a MAF sensor, not the hot setup,
they will not keep up with the gulp factor of the ITB's,
let alone work with the harmonics in the airbox, unless the airbox is huge.
(Meaning it won't fit under a 350Z hood).
Maf sensors want true one way airflow, you put any back flow or weird harmonics into the flow and you're hurtin, and hard to tune.
Will not work with Fly by wire,
too many throttle return springs for the e motor to work with,
and liability out the yingyang.
Would have to make up a vacuum tree of sorts for power brakes,
and or Map sensor.
Using the stock ECU with this ITB system will never get the results you want.
As for running an airbox with a MAF sensor, not the hot setup,
they will not keep up with the gulp factor of the ITB's,
let alone work with the harmonics in the airbox, unless the airbox is huge.
(Meaning it won't fit under a 350Z hood).
Maf sensors want true one way airflow, you put any back flow or weird harmonics into the flow and you're hurtin, and hard to tune.
Will not work with Fly by wire,
too many throttle return springs for the e motor to work with,
and liability out the yingyang.
Would have to make up a vacuum tree of sorts for power brakes,
and or Map sensor.
you can run a maf/airbox and it does work--see any BMW M car since 1988(cept the usdm E36)
you can run a throttle by wire and it does work--again bmw been doin it for a while.
as for the vacuum tree, think of another fuel rail lookin thing right after the throttle blade with vacuum ports--you guessed it.
the only real downside to itb's imo is the fact that your cam timing will no longer be tuned for the decrease in wave pulses. this can seriously hurt low speed torque. i for one will not be buying itb's, but they are cool.
10-16-2007, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bimmertech
i do agree that a stock program will never gain intended results.
you can run a maf/airbox and it does work--see any BMW M car since 1988(cept the usdm E36)
you can run a throttle by wire and it does work--again bmw been doin it for a while.
as for the vacuum tree, think of another fuel rail lookin thing right after the throttle blade with vacuum ports--you guessed it.
the only real downside to itb's imo is the fact that your cam timing will no longer be tuned for the decrease in wave pulses. this can seriously hurt low speed torque. i for one will not be buying itb's, but they are cool.
you can run a maf/airbox and it does work--see any BMW M car since 1988(cept the usdm E36)
you can run a throttle by wire and it does work--again bmw been doin it for a while.
as for the vacuum tree, think of another fuel rail lookin thing right after the throttle blade with vacuum ports--you guessed it.
the only real downside to itb's imo is the fact that your cam timing will no longer be tuned for the decrease in wave pulses. this can seriously hurt low speed torque. i for one will not be buying itb's, but they are cool.
We are talking about a throttle system that would be at best,
tuned by a shop, local to the person buying it, not a major auto maker.
I have a customer that has broken in to the Bosch computers and has tried to do the MAF thing and said it was all compromises to make it work,
not the best of situations.
Not the dedicated BMW computer.
As for cams/timing,
you can now go more radical with cams and still have reasonable drivability with an ITB intake system.
LHP
www.haywardperformance.com