Like anything else you do to a car, the "hard parts" are only one small component - the person doing the tuning is probably the most under rated, and necessary part of the equation (assuming you are using quality parts that fit and were designed for a specific application and/or function

this is the best thing i have read on this matter ,think of the big picture here i know that no one on this fred has come to here itb's on the vq engine .piture this a alfa v6 cross with a fiat dino this almost as sweeta sound as a VQ on ITB,s the time is comming soon !!!!

 

ttt

 

Question, If the plan is to convert the ITBs to a wired one, where is the stock drive by wire TB is going? If you take it out you will get a CEL and there will be a chance that the car might not even run. If you put it in not conected to anything, you might get lean mixtures. When the you go WOT on the car from the hole it actually doesn't go WOT till you get to higher RPMs. Also the traction control uses the DBW TB to control it. This is all with the stock ECU. Some one correct me if I am wrong but I'm pretty sure this is who it goes..

 

apparently not everybody in here is familiar with itbs. i would listen to lance hayward if i were most of you guys. but anyways, back on topic. there is no way with this working with the oem and a piggy back if you delete the tps with resistors or what not somebody suggested. even if you go with a speed density system(reference off of map and intake air temps) you still need the tps for the resolution. infact, for itbs, its ideal to run alpha-n(tps based maps) instead of speed density. you would want to use your map sensor as a secondary map, for all the adjustments in pressure inbetween the tps loads and rpms. and there is always the few that are quick to judge and think itbs are just for top end. they arent. they have much better throttle response and have better power under the curve with the right length and size throttles designed for the engine. and at 48mm plates, that is not large enough to warrant your loss of torque down low. and from knowing what jenvey does and have done, i am sure these are great pieces and guaranteed it will do better than what most of you may expect. its not the peak power that you should look at, its the whole total power band, and what you cant see on the dyno. its the response they give you. enough preaching about itbs, if anybody is interested enough, they can research it themselves. there has been way too many debates about what itbs do here and there on all types of forums. ill let it be for now.

 

Well we finally received the 1st set of bodies today and will post up photos as soon as we get a chance to test fit them on our block that we have here at the shop. Once we have decided on an air box design we should a a final price for you guys.

 

How long do think before you can post up a dyno sheet for us?

 

lol.... it'll be nice if we see a car running with them somehow. these guys receiving them seem to be focused on putting them on and making them look pretty but then again they dont have a clue how they're going to get the motor running with a whole different throttle setup, and cable, and an OEM ECU. they havent even mentioned anything about it...

*sits back with some popcorn*

 

Allright, I was beginning to wonder if things had fallen through, but they apparently have not. Can't wait to see some pics & final pricing. I have a feeling our weak $ is going to up the price since these things are coming out of the UK. Parts alone (throttle bodies, horns, linkages) for me to to some DIY Itb's using Jenvey parts was over $2000.

 

Sweet.......

pics, pics, pics......

 

Please make the engine cover out of cf--that would be hawt.

 

The body are in the shop .we do not know what the air box will be made from yet but it will be at the PRI show check this space SOON!!!

 

Cool, I'm gonna try and go the the PRI show

 

bump...

 

just a quick update, as you know we finally received a set of bodies in last week .Unfortunately we have been swamped at work and probably won't start working on them for a few weeks.At this time all I know for sure is they will be ready for the PRI show up at Orlando in December.(www.performanceracing.com)
Neil

 

what about full stand alone system?
will it work with it? or we don't know yet?

 

This may hav ebeen said before, BUT, for ITB's to work properly, don't you need to really build the motor up to work with them, not just slap ITB's on and expect everything to be perfect.

Lots of people who have played around with ITBs, (honda guys especially), have ran into issues due to not matching exhaust manifolds and head designs to work with the ITB setups. In all honesty, re-working of the heads for different flow characteristics is practically a necessity. Then at that point, you can also run more aggresive cams. On top of that, the fuel injection may need to be looked because different injection setups with ITBs can make a difference. Then an overlooked characteristic of the engine setup is the exhaust manifolds, and a slightly different deisgn (I know, I know, it's not like we have the most room to work with here) may end up helping the motor as well.

Lastly, let's forget about the drive-by-wire thing for a minute, and consider the fact that with the HUGE differences in flow characteristics to each cylinder, ECU re-tuning is esential. Take the BMW M series of engines for example... M6 or M3 etc.. each use ITBs, and companies such as Dinan have noticed that when upgrading to even slightly larger bore throttle bodies, that ECU programing is needed. If you need to reprogram the ECU for slight boring, then converting a plenum single throttle chamber to ITBs will REALLY require it....

What a lot of older F1 teams were doing BTW, were using ITBs inside of an airbox, with a single throttle plate to control the vacuum etc.. that the engine/car may have needed, and this may be somewhat of an idea to go with a car that is drive by wire... Just a thought.

Lastly, these cars rely on vacuum for things such as brake boosters etc... Converting to ITBs will also require some sort of vacuum rail system to help control these accessories....

The ITBs themselves are actually just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this whole issue. To get a setup done correctly, will be a VERY EXPENSIVE undertaking to say the least... BMW for example are still perfecting their M engines in regards to ITBs and how they work, and this is a company throwing millions into R/D...

so, good luck to anyone thinking about doing this...
Also, there is actually a GREAT article in Import Tuner this month regarding ITB's, it's a great read. Also, Barnes and Noble has a few books I've come across that discuss this subject..

 

WOW, at last someone speaks the truth. Thanks.

 

Which books specifically discuss this? I'd like to have a read.

 

Thats a single cable in the picture... It runs across one of the pulleys, then over to the second.

 

Yeah thanks bud but that's not gonna explain how on earth these motors are gonna run. Still WAITING for vids/tune/ and dyno sheet! Very anxious to see this play out on there plan/agenda considering SOON is also not soon anymore taking into account the date this thread was born.