*Boose*

iTrader: (3)

I appreciate the time and effort that was put into this. Hopefully some of the newer posters will also.

Rickdogg

iTrader: (234)

Very valid concerns considering previous vendors have been booted for blatant misrepresentation, stealing, and lies. Take JBL Motorsports and Relentless Autosports/VRT as examples. It is only fair to be consistent considering how many plenum spacers have been sold to unsuspecting buyers with revup motors for $200+ a pop with no apparent gains whatsoever. Total the quantity of spacers sold to these unknowing buyers and it is a lot of money. The least the community, staff, and Internet brands should do is at least make vendors selling spacers with unjustified claims edit their product information to iterate the truth. At the very minimum they should also apologize for their oversight (or is it greed?).

Bingo! Not to mention the typical politics that always come in to play when touchy subjects are brought up. There are always fanboys and people that support the dealers they prefer and/or have become friends with. However, the truth cannot be denied. Tests like this look at topics objectively rather than someone's bias. There's a reason why Motordyne is willing to accept these challenges because Tony has nothing to hide and it speaks a lot of volume when he purchased an airplane ticket to fly from CA to TX in pursuit of the truth.

I believe it is only fair considering the RA thread is stickied to protect potential victims of theft and lies. Just like the RA thread, it should be re-titled "Plenum spacers DO NOT work on Rev-ups! The truth, the lies, and lol exposed"

stormcrow

iTrader: (14)

i wonder how many plenum spacers would be sold if they were truthfully advertised as "makes phantom gains of +3whp"?


i agree. plus it's not like it's bashing...it's just truth. people who are doing searches on the best intake mod or plenum spacer should have this information right in front of them when they first visit this subforum...

skaterbasist

iTrader: (3)

I have my NA modifications pretty well documented. But I never dyno'd the car just after the spacer install.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that:

- The spacer itself wouldn't do much for the revup
- The MREV2 makes great gains in the midrange powerband, but dips a little lower than before the install at high RPM's (on revup)
- The spacer combined with the MREV2 "cancels" out the effects of the high RPM "dip" of the MREV2 without negatively affecting midrange gains.

Tony,

Are you saying I can sell my spacer and have no negative affects on performance? My NA mods include the stillen intake, 5/16 spacer, MREV2, F.I Exhaust, Test Pipes, Osiris Tuned @ Church.

Has anyone analyzed if tuning with the spacer on a revup creates some power compared to tuning with no spacer (assuming the car has some NA mods for a tune to begin with)?

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

Its conditional. It depends on what it is used with.

The spacer does not make power on the stock REVUP lower plenum. It can however make gains on the revup engine when when used on a non-revup plenum or MREV2.
If you have any one of the MREV series lower plenums the spacer will indeed make good gains on the revup engine. It just that the spacer won't make gains on the stock revup lower plenum.
See this link here for additonal clarification of what the spacer will do on the MREV2 when its on a REVUP engine.
http://g35driver.com/forums/intake-e...ev-spacer.html
And that is where this dyno came from:


So its not that it doesn't make gains on the REVUP engine. Its that it doesn't make gains on the REVUP lower plenum. Its an important distinction.

A tune on a revup lower plenum with a spacer won't make any more gains than just a stock revup lower plenum by itself with a tune. The spacer does nothing up or down, with or without a tune.

I hope this isn't too confusing.

Happy New Year!!!
Tony

KA24DE

Except that this wasn't widely known, and ONLY Tony previously had the data to back it up. Please don't post in this thread like you knew this before had. You didn't. While I really do respect Tony on his skills, and his understanding on engineering (admittedly beyond mine) nothing anyone says, even Tony, should be taken without some sort of scrutiny.

stormcrow

iTrader: (14)

I guess you missed this -

This was in one of my responses to Tony. My lesson was learned in 2006. So, yes, I knew this well before this thread. Three years before, in fact. I even had a fairly indepth discussion with XKR over lunch about the content of this thread well before it was posted...i.e.: plenum spacers and their lack of gains on the REVUP lower plenum.

Egg meet face.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

^^^Yeah, he did his own spacer REVUP dyno back in 2006.
EDIT: I didn't even know about Stormcrow's untill recently.

110% True.

go-fast

shows what i expected to see.

while i like the attempt to level the playing field with ecu resets,i would have liked to see long term trim as a factor.to be complete you need to show what happens once the ecu gets used to the air.

i expect little to no improvement,but it is missing.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

Trims as in "fuel trims?" I'm not sure if Cipher has the ability to log them. I'll have to check the next time I turn it on.

Both A/F ratio and absolute fuel flow rates were logged. They arent the "fuel trims" but they give a bigger picture from which the trims are part of. I looked at thoes earlier and couldn't see any cause/effect relations to the measured HP. Gabe3D plotted it all out on the prior page. If the ECU was making trims it would likely show in the A/F or absolute fuel flow rates.

In the context of this test, the Volumetric Efficiency (VE) is the best indicator of changes in manifold air mass flow rate. Even better than HP. VE is strictly a function of the air mas flow per RPM*cylinder displacement. So no matter where HP, fuel or spark timing go, VE is almost completely unaffected by the other variables. It also cuts dyno error completely out of the picture.

Since VE is directly measured by the MAF sensor, that makes MAF data the most important variable to watch. Its a closer measure to the effects of plenum configuration. Even more important than HP because HP is so strongly affected by a composite of many other strongly interacting and dependent variables. Particularly spark timing and fuel flow rates... and spark&fuel are mutually independent of VE. When you look at Gabe3D's MAF plots on the prior page they don't show agreement or correlation to changes in plenum configuration, the control runs or HP.

Within its range of measurement error, the MAF sensor isn't showing any patterns or correlations to the test series. The MAF sensor is basically saying nothing changed during all the testing. So although "fuel trims" aren't isolated in the data set there are other, even better, variables to gain good information from.

Anyways, the next time I start up the cipher I'll check to see if it measures the fuel trims. And I'll log them in my own testing to see if they move and how quickly they move.

ajcool2

iTrader: (11)

Props to Tony, Chris and everyone else that was a part of this test. Its always nice to see good info like this on the forums.

tight350z

iTrader: (2)

Op what were all the mods to the car? i know the spacers were the variable here, jw what else u had done to the car.. im going to dyno mine within the next week hopefully to get a baseline before i get a tune.. i wanna know what gains i make from the tune *uprev* .. looking to see if ur numbers might be similar to what i get too
mods: 06 6mt revup
MD xyz resonated ypipe
MD shockwave dual
MD mrev2
MD 5/16 iso spacer
niso CAI
test pipes (non resonated)

NeverLift

iTrader: (12)

Stock Air box
Z1 Intake Tube
Megan V2 Test Pipes
AAM Y-Pipe
Greddy Ti-C Single

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

Are you doing a mail in tune or dyno tune? Of course if its a dyno tune you can do all the pre/post testing without leaving the dyno.

tight350z

iTrader: (2)

I planned on having a local place tune it on the dyno.. I don't have a bone stock dyno so I am just looking to see the change from the tune only..comparing our mods I only have a mrev2 more than u.. And a diff exhaust. I assume I'd be around 265-270 then? I'll know though once I get on the dyno.. I hope the tune gives around ~10hp, yal think that's unrealistic?

onagao

Depending on the dyno, very realistic. I had a similar setup on mine when I got it dyno tuned at Uprev, and I ended up at 271whp. The gains were pretty substantial, but I think it was gained over the eTune as a baseline, and not the original stock baseline (which was higher but very lean). Here's a video, if you're interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv7DE7DmykU

The biggest thing aside from the power is the reliability and smoothness of the tune that you end up with. It's hard to put a price on peace of mind, and all that power is a welcome addition.

When you get yours dyno'd/tuned, you should definitely post a video of the process. I, for one, would love to see and hear that beastly Motordyne setup.