Stillen Exhaust and "Rust Through" Issues
02-08-2011, 02:30 PM
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Stillen Exhaust and "Rust Through" Issues
Like the title says, I'm having "rust through" issues with my Stillen Exhaust. The welds on my mufflers have cracked due to rust. I have spoken with Chuck Howlett (the VP at Stillen) and I have now filed a claim with the BBB. Needless to say I wasn't the first to do so.
I feel Stillen should stand behind their lifetime, limited warranty and replace mine. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
I feel Stillen should stand behind their lifetime, limited warranty and replace mine. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
02-08-2011, 02:37 PM
#2
Like the title says, I'm having "rust through" issues with my Stillen Exhaust. The welds on my mufflers have cracked due to rust. I have spoken with Chuck Howlett (the VP at Stillen) and I have now filed a claim with the BBB. Needless to say I wasn't the first to do so.
I feel Stillen should stand behind their lifetime, limited warranty and replace mine. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
I feel Stillen should stand behind their lifetime, limited warranty and replace mine. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Every time you drive by Costa Mesa, flip the bird in their general direction.
02-08-2011, 05:32 PM
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I wanted to provide some pictures and links to others who have had similar issues with Stillen. I guess it's nice to know I'm not alone... I wish this thread wasn't moved to the "exhaust section." This is much more than a problem with my exhaust. This is a problem with a company!
http://forums.maxima.org/7th-generat...-back-oem.html
http://www.infinitiscene.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=8111
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...ifications/104
Surprisingly enough, during my correspondence with Chuck, he admitted to using inferior steal. That is why so many people have had issues. I respect him for his honestly but it really bothers me that I paid more and got less.
Next on my list is to update my initial review of the exhaust when it was brand new in 2003.
The pic below is from on Infiniti FX with the Stillen Exhaust.
http://forums.maxima.org/7th-generat...-back-oem.html
http://www.infinitiscene.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=8111
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...ifications/104
Surprisingly enough, during my correspondence with Chuck, he admitted to using inferior steal. That is why so many people have had issues. I respect him for his honestly but it really bothers me that I paid more and got less.
Next on my list is to update my initial review of the exhaust when it was brand new in 2003.
The pic below is from on Infiniti FX with the Stillen Exhaust.
Last edited by whosdady; 02-09-2011 at 09:57 AM.
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02-08-2011, 06:01 PM
#8
I wanted to provide some pictures and links to others who have had similar issues with Stillen. I guess it's nice to know I'm not alone... I wish this thread wasn't moved to the "exhaust section." This is much more than a problem with my exhaust. This is a problem with a company!
http://forums.maxima.org/7th-generat...-back-oem.html
http://www.infinitiscene.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=8111
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...ifications/104
Surprisingly enough, during my correspondence with Chuck, he admitted to using inferior steal. That is why so many people have had issues. I respect him for his honestly but it really bothers me that I paid more and got less.
Next on my list is to update my initial review of the exhaust when it was brand new in 2003.
http://forums.maxima.org/7th-generat...-back-oem.html
http://www.infinitiscene.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=8111
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...ifications/104
Surprisingly enough, during my correspondence with Chuck, he admitted to using inferior steal. That is why so many people have had issues. I respect him for his honestly but it really bothers me that I paid more and got less.
Next on my list is to update my initial review of the exhaust when it was brand new in 2003.
02-08-2011, 06:35 PM
#9
I think a $1300+ exhaust should be a little less prone to rusting than that in 8 years. I see 80s and 90s model cars all the time with less rust on aluminized steel piping than what that guy has on his "304 stainless" exhaust.
My tip to anyone who buys aftermarket exhaust:
Use the magnet test upon accepting delivery. If a magnet sticks to the exhaust, it is not 304 stainless. Basically, if a magnet sticks to it or any part of it, whatever the magnet sticks to can and likely will rust. If you paid for 304 stainless and the magnet sticks, send it back.
Last edited by Steve-O Z33; 02-08-2011 at 06:38 PM.
02-09-2011, 09:03 AM
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My mufflers actually came apart on my Stillen exhaust (starting with rust which lead to cracks at the welds). I had to take it to a shop to have them rewelded. This is far beyond a little rust. I have had the mufflers polished numerous times to keep them looking good. Unfortunately, it is difficult to make the new welds look good. Please see the pic below.
By the way, my problem started much earlier than 8 years ago. I started noticing issues my second year when I drove the car more often. The crack I had was about 6 inches long on one side and about two inches on the other. This exhaust had rust through by year 5. I contacted Stillen last year and have even been looking for used exhausts for over a year. I refuse to buy a new one as I will never buy Stillen again. Although it was nice of them to offer to sell me another one...
Last edited by whosdady; 02-09-2011 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Pic didn't work
02-09-2011, 09:29 AM
#13
I see his point though. Lifetime warranty doesn't mean, "no, we weren't serious." It means, "your part broke, send it in and we'll replace it."
If they aren't going to offer a lifetime warranty, they shouldn't say so. In the same aspect, there is a lot of rust. This could go beyond anything that would be considered normal use, therefore voiding the warranty of the part. Looks like the car was driven wet on the salt flats every day for a month.
02-09-2011, 09:45 AM
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The pic of the muffler above is a picture of my actual exhaust. My undercarriage is very clean, as is the rest of my car.
02-09-2011, 04:23 PM
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Hey guys, just wanted to jump in here and offer a bit more information.
1) We have never once received a receipt. Just like any company in any industry, we need a copy of a receipt before proceeding with any warranty procedure. The only thing that we have received is an email from the shop who sold "whosdady" the exhaust system. Unfortunately this shop has gone out of business and therefore no longer has copies of receipts. Although we had a good relationship with this company we can not take someone's memory after 8 years as a form of receipt.
2) In regards to standing behind our lifetime warranty, let's be clear here. At the time of purchase, this exhaust did not have a lifetime warranty. "Whosdady" has said that he purchased the exhaust in 2003. If you look at our 2003 and 2004 catalogs you will see our description saying that the system offers "long life." There is no mention of a warranty timeframe. In 2005 we changed our catalogs and all subsequent marketing materials to reflected the "limited lifetime warranty" policy. This change came about after the system was purchased. Our Vice President came up with a good analogy. If you purchased a Hyundai car the 5 years before Hyundai came out with their 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty policy you can't just go back to them and tell them you want that warranty. It just doesn't work that way. "Whosdady" has referenced a magazine article from 2003 as the only source of the "limited lifetime warranty" policy. We can not be responsible for a magazine misprint when our own marketing materials did not have that policy listed in them.
3) The Vice President of the company never once mentioned the use of "inferior steel." He explained to "whosdady" that when we came out with the system we were in line with industry standard which is the use of 409 stainless steel. Just about everyone in the automotive industry uses 409 stainless steel. However, we decided that we want to offer the best product possible and we have made the switch to 304 stainless steel. The main difference between 304 and 409 is that 409 has a higher carbon content. It is more prone to corrosion. Surface rust will form on both 304 and 409 stainless however more so on 409. Our current limited lifetime warranty covers rust through.
4) Our offer to "whosdady" was that we were willing to sell him a replacement rear section for his car BELOW our cost. Even though his warranty was out of date and we would be left with components of a system we could not sell, we want to see our customers satisfied. As you can see, he declined our offer.
1) We have never once received a receipt. Just like any company in any industry, we need a copy of a receipt before proceeding with any warranty procedure. The only thing that we have received is an email from the shop who sold "whosdady" the exhaust system. Unfortunately this shop has gone out of business and therefore no longer has copies of receipts. Although we had a good relationship with this company we can not take someone's memory after 8 years as a form of receipt.
2) In regards to standing behind our lifetime warranty, let's be clear here. At the time of purchase, this exhaust did not have a lifetime warranty. "Whosdady" has said that he purchased the exhaust in 2003. If you look at our 2003 and 2004 catalogs you will see our description saying that the system offers "long life." There is no mention of a warranty timeframe. In 2005 we changed our catalogs and all subsequent marketing materials to reflected the "limited lifetime warranty" policy. This change came about after the system was purchased. Our Vice President came up with a good analogy. If you purchased a Hyundai car the 5 years before Hyundai came out with their 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty policy you can't just go back to them and tell them you want that warranty. It just doesn't work that way. "Whosdady" has referenced a magazine article from 2003 as the only source of the "limited lifetime warranty" policy. We can not be responsible for a magazine misprint when our own marketing materials did not have that policy listed in them.
3) The Vice President of the company never once mentioned the use of "inferior steel." He explained to "whosdady" that when we came out with the system we were in line with industry standard which is the use of 409 stainless steel. Just about everyone in the automotive industry uses 409 stainless steel. However, we decided that we want to offer the best product possible and we have made the switch to 304 stainless steel. The main difference between 304 and 409 is that 409 has a higher carbon content. It is more prone to corrosion. Surface rust will form on both 304 and 409 stainless however more so on 409. Our current limited lifetime warranty covers rust through.
4) Our offer to "whosdady" was that we were willing to sell him a replacement rear section for his car BELOW our cost. Even though his warranty was out of date and we would be left with components of a system we could not sell, we want to see our customers satisfied. As you can see, he declined our offer.
Last edited by kyle@stillen; 02-09-2011 at 04:25 PM.
02-09-2011, 09:14 PM
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Hey guys, just wanted to jump in here and offer a bit more information.
1) We have never once received a receipt. Just like any company in any industry, we need a copy of a receipt before proceeding with any warranty procedure. The only thing that we have received is an email from the shop who sold "whosdady" the exhaust system. Unfortunately this shop has gone out of business and therefore no longer has copies of receipts. Although we had a good relationship with this company we can not take someone's memory after 8 years as a form of receipt.
2) In regards to standing behind our lifetime warranty, let's be clear here. At the time of purchase, this exhaust did not have a lifetime warranty. "Whosdady" has said that he purchased the exhaust in 2003. If you look at our 2003 and 2004 catalogs you will see our description saying that the system offers "long life." There is no mention of a warranty timeframe. In 2005 we changed our catalogs and all subsequent marketing materials to reflected the "limited lifetime warranty" policy. This change came about after the system was purchased. Our Vice President came up with a good analogy. If you purchased a Hyundai car the 5 years before Hyundai came out with their 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty policy you can't just go back to them and tell them you want that warranty. It just doesn't work that way. "Whosdady" has referenced a magazine article from 2003 as the only source of the "limited lifetime warranty" policy. We can not be responsible for a magazine misprint when our own marketing materials did not have that policy listed in them.
3) The Vice President of the company never once mentioned the use of "inferior steel." He explained to "whosdady" that when we came out with the system we were in line with industry standard which is the use of 409 stainless steel. Just about everyone in the automotive industry uses 409 stainless steel. However, we decided that we want to offer the best product possible and we have made the switch to 304 stainless steel. The main difference between 304 and 409 is that 409 has a higher carbon content. It is more prone to corrosion. Surface rust will form on both 304 and 409 stainless however more so on 409. Our current limited lifetime warranty covers rust through.
4) Our offer to "whosdady" was that we were willing to sell him a replacement rear section for his car BELOW our cost. Even though his warranty was out of date and we would be left with components of a system we could not sell, we want to see our customers satisfied. As you can see, he declined our offer.
1) We have never once received a receipt. Just like any company in any industry, we need a copy of a receipt before proceeding with any warranty procedure. The only thing that we have received is an email from the shop who sold "whosdady" the exhaust system. Unfortunately this shop has gone out of business and therefore no longer has copies of receipts. Although we had a good relationship with this company we can not take someone's memory after 8 years as a form of receipt.
2) In regards to standing behind our lifetime warranty, let's be clear here. At the time of purchase, this exhaust did not have a lifetime warranty. "Whosdady" has said that he purchased the exhaust in 2003. If you look at our 2003 and 2004 catalogs you will see our description saying that the system offers "long life." There is no mention of a warranty timeframe. In 2005 we changed our catalogs and all subsequent marketing materials to reflected the "limited lifetime warranty" policy. This change came about after the system was purchased. Our Vice President came up with a good analogy. If you purchased a Hyundai car the 5 years before Hyundai came out with their 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty policy you can't just go back to them and tell them you want that warranty. It just doesn't work that way. "Whosdady" has referenced a magazine article from 2003 as the only source of the "limited lifetime warranty" policy. We can not be responsible for a magazine misprint when our own marketing materials did not have that policy listed in them.
3) The Vice President of the company never once mentioned the use of "inferior steel." He explained to "whosdady" that when we came out with the system we were in line with industry standard which is the use of 409 stainless steel. Just about everyone in the automotive industry uses 409 stainless steel. However, we decided that we want to offer the best product possible and we have made the switch to 304 stainless steel. The main difference between 304 and 409 is that 409 has a higher carbon content. It is more prone to corrosion. Surface rust will form on both 304 and 409 stainless however more so on 409. Our current limited lifetime warranty covers rust through.
4) Our offer to "whosdady" was that we were willing to sell him a replacement rear section for his car BELOW our cost. Even though his warranty was out of date and we would be left with components of a system we could not sell, we want to see our customers satisfied. As you can see, he declined our offer.
1) You are correct. I did not provide Stillen with my actual sales receipt. In stead, I provided Stillen with a written letter by the owner of the authorized dealer where I purchased the exhaust. (Avalon Racing). In the letter it clearly stated I was the original buyer. Paul, the previous owner said that all of the records have been discarded since the business is no longer active. For those of you that knew Paul, he had some serious health issues which forced him to focus on his health rather than his business. Surely, Stillen can understand this?
To further authenticate myself as the original purchaser, I included a link to my original post from this forum. Please see the link below:
https://my350z.com/forum/intake-exha...ame-today.html
Finally, I included the invoice number which was provided to me by one of the Stillen Reps. Yes, I provided Stillen with their own invoice number referencing my exhaust purchase. It was order #224343 which corresponds to the date of my post and the letter that Paul wrote.
The fact that I did not supply them with an invoice is a poor excuse at best not to honor my warranty claim. They told me they couldn't be sure I was the original buyer without the invoice. This is a joke as I supplied them with much more than an invoice.
2) Stillen currently states on their website "all" Stillen stainless steel exhaust kits come with a lifetime, limited warranty. It doesn't exclude those in 2003and 2004. This must be false and deceptive advertising than. See link below:
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?i...H06&c=PE&m=all
Furthermore, I provided them with another link from their own website. The article was dated 2003. Many of you are familiar with the Sport Z Magazine Exhaust Shoot Out. The warrranty is one of he 10 items compared. Guess what, Stillen had its own page and under the warranty catagory it clearly states "LIMITED, LIFETIME warranty." Stillen tried to tell me it was a misprint.
I asked Chuck if it was just a coincidence, that he happen to offer the same exhaust in the future with the exact same warranty? I doubt it. Please see the link for the exhaust shoot out. Stillen's warranty information is found on the last page.http://www.stillen.com/media_files/a...0000000007.pdf
Interestingly enough, neither the VP or the General Manager for Stillen were around in 2003. How would they know what the warranty was? Oh, thats right they need customers to find that kind of information for them???
I will refrain from commenting on the comparison he made to a Hyundai but that really cracked me up. (no pun intended) If I was trying to sell ultra high end products, I wouldn't compare my stuff to a Hyundai.
3) Yes, the VP said they used 409 SS which is inferior to 304 SS. This is why they had all of these problems. Yes it is true there are ebay specials that sell for $200 that use 409 SS but that is not the norm. The Stillen exhaust retails for about $1000 more than that. Do yourself a favor. If you have a Stillen exhaust kit, check your welds. If they are fully rusted through, send it back to Stillen. Just kidding, my experience shows how they stand behind their product.
4) Yes, it is true. I was offered another opportunity to buy another Stillen exhaust. Is there anyone that would really want to deal with these people after reading this thread? I made the mistake once, I will not be burned again.
I guess one of the hardest parts about this experience is that I used to stand up for Stillen.
https://my350z.com/forum/intake-exha...exhaust-7.html
They were able to pull records on me and see that I had been a good customer for over 10 years. This is how you treat a good customer? I advise anyone interested in high performance parts to seek other companies to do business with. I have filed a complaint with the BBB and advise anyone else, who has had similar problems to do so the same. Personally I would not do business with anyone who has a "B" rating
02-10-2011, 10:55 AM
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After posting my Stillen story here, I have received several recommendations to share this link with other boards. IE lima, maxima, 370, FX, GTR and Infiniti. Any other suggestions?
Last edited by whosdady; 02-10-2011 at 04:58 PM.
