Motor / Plenum / Spacer questions
07-11-2011, 11:30 PM
#1
Motor / Plenum / Spacer questions
Okay yeah, I realize that there are an over abundance of current threads that revolve around all of this. And believe me, I've spent the past couple hours grinding through these threads. So if you will, answer me a few questions. And if you must... go ahead and flame.
So, I just bought an '06 base M/T... which from what research i've done and the general FAQ thread says.... I automatically have a 300hp motor.... however my engine code is a DE, not HR... Would this claim be correct that i have a 300 hp DE motor?
Assuming that i have a 300 hp DE motor, this makes my decesion making process for the plenum spacer / mrev2 choice combination a little more difficult. Yes, I spent some good time going through half a dozen pages of the official spacer / mrev thread... i've seen all of the dynos etc.. Questions is this. What ultimately is the best setup? From those dyno pulls, it looks like 5/16 and MREV makes you pull timing but, just the MREV doesn't. However, i'm assuming these claims were made on the 287 hp non reveup motor... which is where my question comes into play. Assuming I do, in fact have a 300hp DE, would the same rules still apply? Would just the MREV still be the best way to go?
I've seen plenty of talk about the 5/16" spacer, and considerably less about the 1/2". I know the 1/2" makes you lose the strut bar. But what are the specs like on that? Motordynes website said 12 -14 hp increase for both the 5/16" and 1/2". The only difference i saw is that the 1/2" changes up the tone of one's exhaust. Now, it seems everyone is a big fan of the 5/16" over the 1/2" ... All i'm getting is that there's not much difference in HP gains between the two. So if this is correct, and the idea of having a "deeper growl under the hood" (as quoted by motordynes webiset) is appealing to me, then is there any huge reason to go 5/16?
So, I just bought an '06 base M/T... which from what research i've done and the general FAQ thread says.... I automatically have a 300hp motor.... however my engine code is a DE, not HR... Would this claim be correct that i have a 300 hp DE motor?
Assuming that i have a 300 hp DE motor, this makes my decesion making process for the plenum spacer / mrev2 choice combination a little more difficult. Yes, I spent some good time going through half a dozen pages of the official spacer / mrev thread... i've seen all of the dynos etc.. Questions is this. What ultimately is the best setup? From those dyno pulls, it looks like 5/16 and MREV makes you pull timing but, just the MREV doesn't. However, i'm assuming these claims were made on the 287 hp non reveup motor... which is where my question comes into play. Assuming I do, in fact have a 300hp DE, would the same rules still apply? Would just the MREV still be the best way to go?
I've seen plenty of talk about the 5/16" spacer, and considerably less about the 1/2". I know the 1/2" makes you lose the strut bar. But what are the specs like on that? Motordynes website said 12 -14 hp increase for both the 5/16" and 1/2". The only difference i saw is that the 1/2" changes up the tone of one's exhaust. Now, it seems everyone is a big fan of the 5/16" over the 1/2" ... All i'm getting is that there's not much difference in HP gains between the two. So if this is correct, and the idea of having a "deeper growl under the hood" (as quoted by motordynes webiset) is appealing to me, then is there any huge reason to go 5/16?
07-12-2011, 12:34 AM
#2
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If it is a 2006 m/t you are definately driving a VQ35DE REV-UP which makes 300hp because of variable exhaust cam timing (regular DE have it on intake only), a revised lower plenum and a higher redline. The HR are the "High Response" engine and are completely revised with dual intake/throttle bodies, better plenum design (which is the reason why you want to put spacers on your DE Rev Up) and a whole new tune.
Now if you look at the plenum on your DE you will notice it slopes to the front. This is a design flaw as it restrict the air flow to the front cylinders. A plenum spacer will raise the plenum and allowing more air to flow into the front. To be honest a 5/16 is the best size you need. There is little difference in the gain of the 5/16 and 1/2 besides losing the strut bar.
Unfortunately for your REV UP motor the spacer will make no difference for your power gain because of the lower collector.
Take a look: DE on the left, REV UP on the right
So for the REV UP a MREV is needed to see the most gains. Then to complete the set up you need to do a tune to optimize the gain.
I'll give you an example. My 03 is a regular DE so when i put 5/16 I felt the gains immediately. It pulls better than without the spacers on. My buddy put on spacers on his 06 and felt almost the same.
Now if you look at the plenum on your DE you will notice it slopes to the front. This is a design flaw as it restrict the air flow to the front cylinders. A plenum spacer will raise the plenum and allowing more air to flow into the front. To be honest a 5/16 is the best size you need. There is little difference in the gain of the 5/16 and 1/2 besides losing the strut bar.
Unfortunately for your REV UP motor the spacer will make no difference for your power gain because of the lower collector.
Take a look: DE on the left, REV UP on the right
So for the REV UP a MREV is needed to see the most gains. Then to complete the set up you need to do a tune to optimize the gain.
I'll give you an example. My 03 is a regular DE so when i put 5/16 I felt the gains immediately. It pulls better than without the spacers on. My buddy put on spacers on his 06 and felt almost the same.
07-12-2011, 07:21 AM
#5
Questions is this. What ultimately is the best setup? From those dyno pulls, it looks like 5/16 and MREV makes you pull timing but, just the MREV doesn't. However, i'm assuming these claims were made on the 287 hp non reveup motor... which is where my question comes into play. Assuming I do, in fact have a 300hp DE, would the same rules still apply? Would just the MREV still be the best way to go?
...is appealing to me, then is there any huge reason to go 5/16?
...is appealing to me, then is there any huge reason to go 5/16?
For the REVUP engine, the MREV2/spacer combo is by far the most effective bolton available. (short of nitrous or fi) It makes great power, is very easy to install and very cost effective.
Unless your engine is already running lean or you already have a lot of other modifications, you don't need to worry about a tune. Its not untill you add in a intake, spacer, MREV2, test pipes and exhaust that you really start to need a tune.
Some cars can come from the factory in the lean condition but its pretty rare.
The reason 5/16" is so much more popular than the 1/2" is because it allows you to keep your stock strut bar. As for the functional differences between the two, they are similar but different.
The 5/16" makes a higher average gain. (better for daily driving)
The 1/2" makes a higher peak gain. (better for racing application)
As for going with just the MREV2, this plot here shows the differences with and without the spacer. Adding the spacer basically adds ~10 HP to the top end of the MREV2.
07-12-2011, 07:26 AM
#6
If it is a 2006 m/t you are definately driving a VQ35DE REV-UP which makes 300hp because of variable exhaust cam timing (regular DE have it on intake only), a revised lower plenum and a higher redline. The HR are the "High Response" engine and are completely revised with dual intake/throttle bodies, better plenum design (which is the reason why you want to put spacers on your DE Rev Up) and a whole new tune.
Now if you look at the plenum on your DE you will notice it slopes to the front. This is a design flaw as it restrict the air flow to the front cylinders. A plenum spacer will raise the plenum and allowing more air to flow into the front. To be honest a 5/16 is the best size you need. There is little difference in the gain of the 5/16 and 1/2 besides losing the strut bar.
Unfortunately for your REV UP motor the spacer will make no difference for your power gain because of the lower collector.
Take a look: DE on the left, REV UP on the right
So for the REV UP a MREV is needed to see the most gains. Then to complete the set up you need to do a tune to optimize the gain.
I'll give you an example. My 03 is a regular DE so when i put 5/16 I felt the gains immediately. It pulls better than without the spacers on. My buddy put on spacers on his 06 and felt almost the same.
Now if you look at the plenum on your DE you will notice it slopes to the front. This is a design flaw as it restrict the air flow to the front cylinders. A plenum spacer will raise the plenum and allowing more air to flow into the front. To be honest a 5/16 is the best size you need. There is little difference in the gain of the 5/16 and 1/2 besides losing the strut bar.
Unfortunately for your REV UP motor the spacer will make no difference for your power gain because of the lower collector.
Take a look: DE on the left, REV UP on the right
So for the REV UP a MREV is needed to see the most gains. Then to complete the set up you need to do a tune to optimize the gain.
I'll give you an example. My 03 is a regular DE so when i put 5/16 I felt the gains immediately. It pulls better than without the spacers on. My buddy put on spacers on his 06 and felt almost the same.
And as far as that MREV goes, once again, thanks for explaining that out for me. And if memory serves me correctly, those shorter runners make me think HP / TQ gains will be more towards the higher end of the spectrum. With your buddy having put one on, would he agree? Or is my logic off on this? And out of general curiosity, what makes this lower collector better than stock? Is it just the shorter runners here?
07-12-2011, 07:36 AM
#7
Hi Ghostinthe night,
For the REVUP engine, the MREV2/spacer combo is by far the most effective bolton available. (short of nitrous or fi) It makes great power, is very easy to install and very cost effective.
Unless your engine is already running lean or you already have a lot of other modifications, you don't need to worry about a tune. Its not untill you add in a intake, spacer, MREV2, test pipes and exhaust that you really start to need a tune.
Some cars can come from the factory in the lean condition but its pretty rare.
The reason 5/16" is so much more popular than the 1/2" is because it allows you to keep your stock strut bar. As for the functional differences between the two, they are similar but different.
The 5/16" makes a higher average gain. (better for daily driving)
The 1/2" makes a higher peak gain. (better for racing application)
As for going with just the MREV2, this plot here shows the differences with and without the spacer. Adding the spacer basically adds ~10 HP to the top end of the MREV2.
For the REVUP engine, the MREV2/spacer combo is by far the most effective bolton available. (short of nitrous or fi) It makes great power, is very easy to install and very cost effective.
Unless your engine is already running lean or you already have a lot of other modifications, you don't need to worry about a tune. Its not untill you add in a intake, spacer, MREV2, test pipes and exhaust that you really start to need a tune.
Some cars can come from the factory in the lean condition but its pretty rare.
The reason 5/16" is so much more popular than the 1/2" is because it allows you to keep your stock strut bar. As for the functional differences between the two, they are similar but different.
The 5/16" makes a higher average gain. (better for daily driving)
The 1/2" makes a higher peak gain. (better for racing application)
As for going with just the MREV2, this plot here shows the differences with and without the spacer. Adding the spacer basically adds ~10 HP to the top end of the MREV2.
And from other posts I've read, I've seen where people warn against doing too much to the intake, saying that adding both the spacer and lower collector will up the HP, but it will also lower the throttle response. Is that substantiated? Or is this just just people talking?
And man! that collector and even spacer really cleans up that power curve doesn't it! Aside from being an 06' M/T, was there any other mods on the car on that dyno?
Last edited by GhostintheNight; 07-12-2011 at 07:39 AM.
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07-12-2011, 08:27 AM
#8
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leave the stock airbox on the car and use a good air filter. AFtermarket intakes create issues w the turbulence of the airflow across the maf, its not the amount of people ( air) comming in the house, its how they fight to get thru the door that causes issues.
Tuning after the plenum mod and test pipes is a night and day difference.
Best mod to throw on w out a tune would be stock airbox and the abovementioned spacers.
Tuning after the plenum mod and test pipes is a night and day difference.
Best mod to throw on w out a tune would be stock airbox and the abovementioned spacers.
07-12-2011, 01:28 PM
#9
And from other posts I've read, I've seen where people warn against doing too much to the intake, saying that adding both the spacer and lower collector will up the HP, but it will also lower the throttle response. Is that substantiated? Or is this just just people talking?
And man! that collector and even spacer really cleans up that power curve doesn't it! Aside from being an 06' M/T, was there any other mods on the car on that dyno?
As for doing other modifications, you could always do the ART pipes and Shockwave))) exhaust. It will make great gains.
And always save the tune for dead last.
07-12-2011, 02:58 PM
#10
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I also see a lot of speculative posts but unless its from a person who's done a lot of dyno testing, take it with a grain of salt.
As for doing other modifications, you could always do the ART pipes and Shockwave))) exhaust. It will make great gains.
And always save the tune for dead last.
As for doing other modifications, you could always do the ART pipes and Shockwave))) exhaust. It will make great gains.
And always save the tune for dead last.
07-12-2011, 08:49 PM
#11
leave the stock airbox on the car and use a good air filter. AFtermarket intakes create issues w the turbulence of the airflow across the maf, its not the amount of people ( air) comming in the house, its how they fight to get thru the door that causes issues.
Tuning after the plenum mod and test pipes is a night and day difference.
Best mod to throw on w out a tune would be stock airbox and the abovementioned spacers.
Tuning after the plenum mod and test pipes is a night and day difference.
Best mod to throw on w out a tune would be stock airbox and the abovementioned spacers.
07-12-2011, 08:50 PM
#12
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not comparing the 1/2 to 5/16
Is there any gain to getting the "copper" kit or "iso thermal" kit? (compared to the basic kit)
owned the car 4 days and want to buy something!
Is there any gain to getting the "copper" kit or "iso thermal" kit? (compared to the basic kit)
owned the car 4 days and want to buy something!
07-12-2011, 08:53 PM
#13
I also see a lot of speculative posts but unless its from a person who's done a lot of dyno testing, take it with a grain of salt.
As for doing other modifications, you could always do the ART pipes and Shockwave))) exhaust. It will make great gains.
And always save the tune for dead last.
As for doing other modifications, you could always do the ART pipes and Shockwave))) exhaust. It will make great gains.
And always save the tune for dead last.
Thanks a lot guys for the insight. I originally wanted to do both the MREV and spacer, but was a little concerned when i read that I might lose a little throttle response, because I'm a big fan of throttle response.
07-12-2011, 09:18 PM
#15
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Copper is ideal if you're living in colder nothern regions. It will prevent your throttle body from freezing over. If you live in the south how ever a iso thermal set is best for the money. It will include a iso thermal gasket and a coolant control valve. The gasket prevent heated air to come into the engine and the ccv will stop the coolant flow to the throttle body. Because coolant is at operating temp and it will cause the tb to heat up and therefore heat up the incoming air. With the isothermal gasket and ccv after a long trip i touch my plenum and its more of a put of the oven warm vs. a hot engine.
07-12-2011, 09:28 PM
#16
Copper and iso thermals are to reduce the temp of the incoming air.
Copper is ideal if you're living in colder nothern regions. It will prevent your throttle body from freezing over. If you live in the south how ever a iso thermal set is best for the money. It will include a iso thermal gasket and a coolant control valve. The gasket prevent heated air to come into the engine and the ccv will stop the coolant flow to the throttle body. Because coolant is at operating temp and it will cause the tb to heat up and therefore heat up the incoming air. With the isothermal gasket and ccv after a long trip i touch my plenum and its more of a put of the oven warm vs. a hot engine.
Copper is ideal if you're living in colder nothern regions. It will prevent your throttle body from freezing over. If you live in the south how ever a iso thermal set is best for the money. It will include a iso thermal gasket and a coolant control valve. The gasket prevent heated air to come into the engine and the ccv will stop the coolant flow to the throttle body. Because coolant is at operating temp and it will cause the tb to heat up and therefore heat up the incoming air. With the isothermal gasket and ccv after a long trip i touch my plenum and its more of a put of the oven warm vs. a hot engine.
07-12-2011, 09:33 PM
#17
Also, damn you guys for introducing me to the shockwave exhaust system. I was pretty set on keeping the nismo brand on the vehicle. i really enjoy the sound a nismo exhaust puts out, but i'll be damned if that shockwave doesn't sound sexy as hell --- even on youtube!
I realize that this is off topic, but what are the HP gains from the catback and HRC's. Also, how loud and aggressive is the sound? Doesn't sound too ridiculous. As a daily driver, I'd like to be able to pull up to my house at midnight after cruising around for the night and not have my neighbors want to kill me because the exhaust is obnoxiously loud
I realize that this is off topic, but what are the HP gains from the catback and HRC's. Also, how loud and aggressive is the sound? Doesn't sound too ridiculous. As a daily driver, I'd like to be able to pull up to my house at midnight after cruising around for the night and not have my neighbors want to kill me because the exhaust is obnoxiously loud
07-12-2011, 11:33 PM
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Also, damn you guys for introducing me to the shockwave exhaust system. I was pretty set on keeping the nismo brand on the vehicle. i really enjoy the sound a nismo exhaust puts out, but i'll be damned if that shockwave doesn't sound sexy as hell --- even on youtube!
I realize that this is off topic, but what are the HP gains from the catback and HRC's. Also, how loud and aggressive is the sound? Doesn't sound too ridiculous. As a daily driver, I'd like to be able to pull up to my house at midnight after cruising around for the night and not have my neighbors want to kill me because the exhaust is obnoxiously loud
I realize that this is off topic, but what are the HP gains from the catback and HRC's. Also, how loud and aggressive is the sound? Doesn't sound too ridiculous. As a daily driver, I'd like to be able to pull up to my house at midnight after cruising around for the night and not have my neighbors want to kill me because the exhaust is obnoxiously loud
As for the shockwave the V2 has a Helmholtz resonator chamber by the exhaust exit to tone down the sound. It has absolutely no drone and it will be the better choice vs. say the V1. If you buy brand new i think all they sell is V2. Though don't quote me on that i may be wrong.
Spot the difference?
Last edited by Itzcashew; 07-12-2011 at 11:36 PM.
07-13-2011, 06:37 AM
#19
I generally recommend the Iso Thermal unless you live in an area where it gets really cold. In that case I recommend the Copper Iso Thermal.