Independent Crawford Plenum Review & Dyno
02-07-2004, 04:07 PM
#21
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Im hopeful that our ECU's take alot longer to adjust than most other cars.
Also ZXSaint's signature says 257 horsepower right?
How much did he dyno today with his "sercret mod"?
Also ZXSaint's signature says 257 horsepower right?
How much did he dyno today with his "sercret mod"?
02-07-2004, 04:08 PM
#22
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Just backs up my belief that to make a significant amount of power with aftermarket products, you have to spend a significant amount of money. This is not a "cheap mod=big power gain" car, but we didn't need these dynos to know that.
02-07-2004, 04:30 PM
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UR Crankshaft pully which is independent dyno proven for 6.5 hp and 6-8 hp gains respectively.
HFm or anyone where are these results posted I'm just curious? I know Turbo magazine did a dyno test is this the gains from that article?
I've been trying to find a independant Dyno test with stock baseline and just the pulley. Can anyone point me in the right direction
? don't mean to get too off topic
02-07-2004, 05:02 PM
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Wow, I had a feeling this would cause a riot, but didn't expect it to be this bad... and phoenix isn't even here yet.
This dyno shop (@ 800ft elevation) repeatedly gave figures about 10hp lower than what me and HFM got over at powertrain dynamics (1/2 mile from the ocean). I've dynoed here before in early Jan and my best was like 246 (best at PTD was 257). May or may not be elevation... but as we all know, not all dynos are the same.
Good news is that I was able to get all the dyno files on disk. I also have A/F.
Rodad, that was uncalled for. Have some tact. We weren't paid to do this.. we did it for the community. HFM was willing to shell out the money for the second 3 dynos. Any additional ones would have cost more. I, personally wouldn't consider paying out of my pocket to test another company's product (that i'm not going to keep) with no compensation. So the only thing lame here is your attitude.
Anyways, i'll go screenshot the dynos and post them up in a few.
This dyno shop (@ 800ft elevation) repeatedly gave figures about 10hp lower than what me and HFM got over at powertrain dynamics (1/2 mile from the ocean). I've dynoed here before in early Jan and my best was like 246 (best at PTD was 257). May or may not be elevation... but as we all know, not all dynos are the same.
Good news is that I was able to get all the dyno files on disk. I also have A/F.
Rodad, that was uncalled for. Have some tact. We weren't paid to do this.. we did it for the community. HFM was willing to shell out the money for the second 3 dynos. Any additional ones would have cost more. I, personally wouldn't consider paying out of my pocket to test another company's product (that i'm not going to keep) with no compensation. So the only thing lame here is your attitude.
Anyways, i'll go screenshot the dynos and post them up in a few.
Last edited by zxsaint; 02-07-2004 at 05:05 PM.
02-07-2004, 05:29 PM
#26
every one who put on a crank pulley gained 6-8
every one who put on a pop charger gained 5-7
every one who put on rt cats on a na car gained 8-14 (in addition to exhaust / headers)
these are mods that show consistant gains. one can install them and get claimed power
as of now there are no consistant gains from the plenum
i think the gain was relized from the engine getting a chance to cool during the install and the car was driven azound in spurts not constant highway driving.
there were 3 pulls done. on all cars i call the increase betwsen the 1st and 2nd pull increasing dependiag on the mods of the car.
props to crawford for trying. i give nothing but respect for them. i know what it is like to be an attempted inovator. you sometimes succed and sometimes fail.
i give the person who can be prowp of the fact they tried their best and try to learn from failure and try to improve it rather the jump on and defend their attempt and say the other party is at fault aad not the product.
borla attempted headers for this car.- they faild. we all under stand that. i think they do to.,
still in car. sorry for cell phone post
**** EDIT.... now that I am on a computer... I was thinking but couldnt write it as i thought of it on my palm pilot phone... but the number i posted were the average power gained... there are a few cases where they gained less depending on other mods... but that only applies to the pop charger... if you had another intake mod before the gain would not be as much from the pop charger... ****
every one who put on a pop charger gained 5-7
every one who put on rt cats on a na car gained 8-14 (in addition to exhaust / headers)
these are mods that show consistant gains. one can install them and get claimed power
as of now there are no consistant gains from the plenum
i think the gain was relized from the engine getting a chance to cool during the install and the car was driven azound in spurts not constant highway driving.
there were 3 pulls done. on all cars i call the increase betwsen the 1st and 2nd pull increasing dependiag on the mods of the car.
props to crawford for trying. i give nothing but respect for them. i know what it is like to be an attempted inovator. you sometimes succed and sometimes fail.
i give the person who can be prowp of the fact they tried their best and try to learn from failure and try to improve it rather the jump on and defend their attempt and say the other party is at fault aad not the product.
borla attempted headers for this car.- they faild. we all under stand that. i think they do to.,
still in car. sorry for cell phone post
**** EDIT.... now that I am on a computer... I was thinking but couldnt write it as i thought of it on my palm pilot phone... but the number i posted were the average power gained... there are a few cases where they gained less depending on other mods... but that only applies to the pop charger... if you had another intake mod before the gain would not be as much from the pop charger... ****
Last edited by Jason@Performance; 02-07-2004 at 06:56 PM.
02-07-2004, 05:36 PM
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Uncorrected/Actual
I agree with what Vandy said about letting the oil warm up ... dynos improve with each run for all the cars. The first baseline my car was parked for about an 45 minutes prior to the dyno and the first pull sucked. But before the first plenum pull, I took the car for a 5-minute test drive... really beat on it before running it (mpg meter said 6mpg).
Impressions: I did notice gain... It's hard to say for sure, but it felt like it was breathing easier. There is a definitely difference at 6k+ and quite possibly more for a stock Z.
My opinion on having this plenum on my car is that this is something I would like to have, but cost vs. gains doesnt do it for me. Not saying its overpriced, but for the gains (in my case) it's not worth 400 plus losing your strut bar and an oem core swap. I do think a stock Z could possibly see more gains, and it would probably be worth it in that case. Not for me, but who knows what the future holds.
Also, their new version 5 looks SO much better. This one is about as ugly as you can get.
I agree with what Vandy said about letting the oil warm up ... dynos improve with each run for all the cars. The first baseline my car was parked for about an 45 minutes prior to the dyno and the first pull sucked. But before the first plenum pull, I took the car for a 5-minute test drive... really beat on it before running it (mpg meter said 6mpg).
Impressions: I did notice gain... It's hard to say for sure, but it felt like it was breathing easier. There is a definitely difference at 6k+ and quite possibly more for a stock Z.
My opinion on having this plenum on my car is that this is something I would like to have, but cost vs. gains doesnt do it for me. Not saying its overpriced, but for the gains (in my case) it's not worth 400 plus losing your strut bar and an oem core swap. I do think a stock Z could possibly see more gains, and it would probably be worth it in that case. Not for me, but who knows what the future holds.
Also, their new version 5 looks SO much better. This one is about as ugly as you can get.
02-07-2004, 05:59 PM
#30
I dont really want to post on the topic any more. I pulled 263 on my last dyno with crawford boltons only, (plenum, headers, cats) and a JWT pop charger (which I saw 2-3 hp from, not the 5-7 that Jason claimed above) on stock ecu. My stock baseline was 238. I give Doug all the credit in making my car what it is today. Thats right I basically have 4 BOLT ON's.
Let me put it this way, if I were to pull along side you on the interstate and you have the same mods as I, except for a plenum, I WILL PASS YOU.
Let me put it this way, if I were to pull along side you on the interstate and you have the same mods as I, except for a plenum, I WILL PASS YOU.
02-07-2004, 06:10 PM
#32
Originally posted by Jason@Performance
well. mine is longer
well. mine is longer
But I dont know how you would take it. I am laughing my *** off just thinking of the possibilities.
Oh and the reason Phoenix is not posting is because I am at his house using his computer. I wont let him log on. Hahaha.
02-07-2004, 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Jason@Performance
well. mine is longer
well. mine is longer
I'm sorry that was hilarious to me. Anyways, I was there watching and I don't know why you guys are slamming hfm and zxsaint so hard. I was there from that start of there putting on the plenum. They have done nothing but help us all out in informing us of what works and what doesn't. I wanted to get the plenum, but after seeing it in action with my own eyes, I'm a bit dissappointed. Just way too much money for not so much gains. Oh well.. just my opinion. Thanks again Pat and Dan for setting the dyno up.
02-07-2004, 06:40 PM
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"HEY!! How did we get pulled into this? We have not said, to my knowledge, that we have any problems with Crawford of their claim on the plenum. I have stayed neutral from day one on the Plenum issues. Just wanted to clear the air..."
__________________
Jeff
You got pulled into this because:
A. you were mentioned as assisting hfm in the test.
B. Jason has been bad mouthing Crawford at all the G35 forums. I finally took him to task last friday.
Lou
__________________
Jeff
You got pulled into this because:
A. you were mentioned as assisting hfm in the test.
B. Jason has been bad mouthing Crawford at all the G35 forums. I finally took him to task last friday.
Lou
02-07-2004, 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by 2003z
looks like a 10-15 hp and tq gain at the very top, but neutral to slight losses before that.
looks like a 10-15 hp and tq gain at the very top, but neutral to slight losses before that.
Very similar curve up top to results posted by 350ZDANNY.
02-07-2004, 06:48 PM
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Hey guys, thanks for some additional independent info. It sure is interesting to watch this stuff unfold. It makes me glad that I went for wheels, tires, suspension, brakes, and drivers seat before touching the engine. I'm thinking the Nismo LSD may be the next thing I do to help me get around the track faster...a better steering wheel wouldn't hurt either. 
02-07-2004, 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisM
This is awsome..... The claws come out-
Nobody can every prove anything around here......There will ALWAYS be a excuse why it didnt produce the gains. I cant believe the how people are ATTACKED for trying to give information. unbelievable......
I bet if they did show the gains crawford expected, They would say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" and not question how the dyno was done at all.... Im not trying to make enemies here, im just making a observation.
Chris
Ohh yeah....and Rodad, were you there to watch the testing? If not....you should keep quiet until you know more about how the testing was done!
This is awsome..... The claws come out-
Nobody can every prove anything around here......There will ALWAYS be a excuse why it didnt produce the gains. I cant believe the how people are ATTACKED for trying to give information. unbelievable......
I bet if they did show the gains crawford expected, They would say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" and not question how the dyno was done at all.... Im not trying to make enemies here, im just making a observation.
Chris
Ohh yeah....and Rodad, were you there to watch the testing? If not....you should keep quiet until you know more about how the testing was done!
02-07-2004, 07:00 PM
#38
Originally posted by lowrider
B. Jason has been bad mouthing Crawford at all the G35 forums. I finally took him to task last friday.
Lou
B. Jason has been bad mouthing Crawford at all the G35 forums. I finally took him to task last friday.
Lou
and not on all g35 forums... and not directly bad mouthing anyone or anything... just saying reason's why i feel it does not work as claimed...
02-07-2004, 07:03 PM
#39
If i was to put a product on my car... I dont feel i should have to test and test and test to see gains out of it... I should only have to put it on and drive it and instantly see an increase... that is a mod i feel comfortable spending my hard earned $ on...
02-07-2004, 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Rodad
... I see the lack of experience on your part. If you dont know what your doing and to CHEEP to BUY Dyno time ,then why bother to test............
Your attempt on testing a product was lame...............
... I see the lack of experience on your part. If you dont know what your doing and to CHEEP to BUY Dyno time ,then why bother to test............
Your attempt on testing a product was lame...............
yea they do seem pretty tightwadish dont they....but looking at the dyno's here is where I think there isnt conclusive evidence in the sum of parts dont always add up ......anyone should be able to get an intial bump or gain over stock virtually by sticking anything that will make the car breath or exhale easier that seems to be the case...however when one starts to stack the mods because they all come from disparate sources I would tend to be of the oppinion that sometime the mods themselves are cancelling themselves out and are actually hindering the performance ( think about it there are sooooooooo many variables and manufacturers of parts that for the most part most claims for gains ARE FROM and OVER STOCK !! ) not gains with addon this and add on that. Unless a company and here is where Crawford is doing it right comes through. They DO MARKET A PACKAGE of BOLT-ONS intended to work with each other ie: HEADERS,Plenum,CATS,EXHAUST) so they have tested and the product produces desired results AS it should otherwise why sell it.
So I would say unless you go with or stick with one manufactur like crawford or nismo or JWT for example THE Results will vary when you mix and match. Thats just a by product of things desgned and tested to mate and work with each other for a proven set of results not rocket science.
