Independent Crawford Plenum Review & Dyno
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Central Jersey
Originally posted by ChrisM
Are you kidding me??? The results were SO butchered on that dyno...Did you read the post? If that dyno didnt show any gains you would have a actual reason to complain..but since it showed good gains, your overlooking the faults.
Chris.
Are you kidding me??? The results were SO butchered on that dyno...Did you read the post? If that dyno didnt show any gains you would have a actual reason to complain..but since it showed good gains, your overlooking the faults.
Chris.
If you can do better, then go ****ing do better. If you can't or dont want to, then shut your ****ing mouth, jerk off. I don't see you contributing ****.
Props to HFM for getting the dyno done as promised. I guess we'll just have to see what happens in the future, although I think there's going to be alot of cat fighting over the Kinetix dyno now.
Dan
Originally posted by Jason@Performance
borla attempted headers for this car.- they faild. we all under stand that. i think they do to.,
borla attempted headers for this car.- they faild. we all under stand that. i think they do to.,
Please explain...
Originally posted by jjellyneck
True, we need to see the dyno charts to know--especially at the top RPMs--to see what kind of gains zxsaint got.
Another point--he does not have test pipes. He has free flow cats, a Borla exhaust and a CAI.
Finally--it's a good point that you make about additional mods. In a stock Z there might be the gains that you mention. Additional mods can alter the gains that you'd normally see on a stock setup.
True, we need to see the dyno charts to know--especially at the top RPMs--to see what kind of gains zxsaint got.
Another point--he does not have test pipes. He has free flow cats, a Borla exhaust and a CAI.
Finally--it's a good point that you make about additional mods. In a stock Z there might be the gains that you mention. Additional mods can alter the gains that you'd normally see on a stock setup.
Originally posted by Jason@Performance
every one who put on a crank pulley gained 6-8
every one who put on a pop charger gained 5-7
every one who put on rt cats on a na car gained 8-14 (in addition to exhaust / headers)
these are mods that show consistant gains. one can install them and get claimed power
as of now there are no consistant gains from the plenum
i think the gain was relized from the engine getting a chance to cool during the install and the car was driven azound in spurts not constant highway driving.
there were 3 pulls done. on all cars i call the increase betwsen the 1st and 2nd pull increasing dependiag on the mods of the car.
props to crawford for trying. i give nothing but respect for them. i know what it is like to be an attempted inovator. you sometimes succed and sometimes fail.
i give the person who can be prowp of the fact they tried their best and try to learn from failure and try to improve it rather the jump on and defend their attempt and say the other party is at fault aad not the product.
borla attempted headers for this car.- they faild. we all under stand that. i think they do to.,
still in car. sorry for cell phone post
**** EDIT.... now that I am on a computer... I was thinking but couldnt write it as i thought of it on my palm pilot phone... but the number i posted were the average power gained... there are a few cases where they gained less depending on other mods... but that only applies to the pop charger... if you had another intake mod before the gain would not be as much from the pop charger... ****
every one who put on a crank pulley gained 6-8
every one who put on a pop charger gained 5-7
every one who put on rt cats on a na car gained 8-14 (in addition to exhaust / headers)
these are mods that show consistant gains. one can install them and get claimed power
as of now there are no consistant gains from the plenum
i think the gain was relized from the engine getting a chance to cool during the install and the car was driven azound in spurts not constant highway driving.
there were 3 pulls done. on all cars i call the increase betwsen the 1st and 2nd pull increasing dependiag on the mods of the car.
props to crawford for trying. i give nothing but respect for them. i know what it is like to be an attempted inovator. you sometimes succed and sometimes fail.
i give the person who can be prowp of the fact they tried their best and try to learn from failure and try to improve it rather the jump on and defend their attempt and say the other party is at fault aad not the product.
borla attempted headers for this car.- they faild. we all under stand that. i think they do to.,
still in car. sorry for cell phone post
**** EDIT.... now that I am on a computer... I was thinking but couldnt write it as i thought of it on my palm pilot phone... but the number i posted were the average power gained... there are a few cases where they gained less depending on other mods... but that only applies to the pop charger... if you had another intake mod before the gain would not be as much from the pop charger... ****
I am thinking Nismo Exhaust-->Pulleys--->pop-charger (to be honest, I have NOT seen the big gains on dynos from the pop-charger that everyone else claims to have seen is there a link)???
Thoughts??
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From: Boston
I still dont understand why anyone would have to have more than 3 dyno runs to show gains. Most places you pay for about 3 runs so that should be taken out of the equation, because who goes to have there car run 10+ times for a single mod.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Central Jersey
Originally posted by Ultimateone
I still dont understand why anyone would have to have more than 3 dyno runs to show gains. Most places you pay for about 3 runs so that should be taken out of the equation, because who goes to have there car run 10+ times for a single mod.
I still dont understand why anyone would have to have more than 3 dyno runs to show gains. Most places you pay for about 3 runs so that should be taken out of the equation, because who goes to have there car run 10+ times for a single mod.
Any test is more accurate with more sampling, and if the above scenario holds true, then you have a trend on your hands and you should follow the trend until it levels off.
I don't know if that was the case with HFM's dyno session because I wasn't there. But if you can get your tuner to do 5 pulls instead of 3, then I'd ask you why not? It literally takes 60 seconds at most, once the car is on the dyno, to do a pull.
Dan
**edit** plus, to be perfectly honest, any intelligent person can spin results to show what they want. I'm betting that if all_bark wanted to, he could show a 10 or 15 peak hp gain for the Kinetix plenum, even if that wasn't the case. I'm betting I could better the results I showed with the Crawford Version 5. And I would go so far as to bet that HFM could make the results from this dyno look even worse. So if there were 2 pulls, 5 pulls, or 15 pulls, all these results are suspect to a degree until you sit down and do it yourself.
Last edited by 350zdanny; Feb 7, 2004 at 08:40 PM.
I first of all do not understand why the Dyno was done on a modded car? HFM was ranting about having the Dyno done on a stock car before and after Plenum install. It has been known and shown in previous Dynos that Crawford has posted that the Plenum will give peak HP gains on a stock car but when you start to mod the car with exhaust, HF cats/test pipes etc., then the only remaining increase on the HP curve from the Plenum is the top end, which again was the case with the results posted here. Again 350zdanny added the plenum to a car with no exhaust mods and wow what do you know, it showed the same gains that have been published before on a pretty much stock car, he has a CAI as well. To me this is old news and really tells us nothing new, rather it simply confirms that the Plenum kicks but up top. If you are telling yourself that the gains above 6K are not woth it then you obviously do not know what you are missing, especially on a stock car. I am dissapointed that HFM did not follow through on what he made such a fuss about, independant Dynos on a stock car before and after the Plenum install.
Dyno: Plenum vs 1 week after Plenum
The curve for 1 week later does look slightly better. Just a thought...
The curve for 1 week later does look slightly better. Just a thought...
Fairlady Stalker
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,860
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From: Studio City, CA
I think you guys are taking this a little too far.
1. HFM was curious to see an independent dyno (among many others).
2. Vandy sent his plenum to HFM to test out.
3. While in transit, 350zdanny gave us a dyno.
4. HFM got the plenum, asked me to do the test instead, I accepted. I paid to baseline my car again, spent an hour installing it, and then spent and hour to remove it/replace the stock one and performance nissan is shipping it back. HFM was even ready to pay for the 2nd dyno, but we got comped.
Why didn't we dyno this on a stock car? You're right, I should have asked nissan to borrow a new 04 350z to test out this mod, or pluck a fresh ripe one off my fairlady tree in my back yard. We don't have stock Z's If the Crawford crew was interested in getting an independent dyno off a stock Z, they'd send it to a stock Z owner that wants to test it, or offer a discount for someone with a stock Z that wants to dyno it.
Vandy sent it to HFM to dyno on his car (knowing that he's got mods). I have similar mods, and I did it instead.
Why is everyone so demanding. You want something? do it yourself. Be thankful anyone is providing any of this information for you.
I had ZERO to gain from this, yet i'm being criticized for not doing more dynos or testing it on a stock car? More dynos cost money. You're asking me to spend money to meet YOUR requirements?
Lets drop these ignorant comments. Take the information for what it is. If anyone has any addition requirements they need to add, step up to the plate and do it.
This forum has so many whining sh|t talkers. First all_bark's thread about the kinetix stuff, then we have 350zdanny's dyno being crapped on, and now this. There guys are making an effort to help, only to have critics whip out their checklist and tell us how we screwed up in their book. Get off your lazy *** and do it right then. Pretty soon it's going to get to a point where no one will want to post any data, reviews, or results in fear of getting crapped on by internet auditers.
1. HFM was curious to see an independent dyno (among many others).
2. Vandy sent his plenum to HFM to test out.
3. While in transit, 350zdanny gave us a dyno.
4. HFM got the plenum, asked me to do the test instead, I accepted. I paid to baseline my car again, spent an hour installing it, and then spent and hour to remove it/replace the stock one and performance nissan is shipping it back. HFM was even ready to pay for the 2nd dyno, but we got comped.
Why didn't we dyno this on a stock car? You're right, I should have asked nissan to borrow a new 04 350z to test out this mod, or pluck a fresh ripe one off my fairlady tree in my back yard. We don't have stock Z's If the Crawford crew was interested in getting an independent dyno off a stock Z, they'd send it to a stock Z owner that wants to test it, or offer a discount for someone with a stock Z that wants to dyno it.
Vandy sent it to HFM to dyno on his car (knowing that he's got mods). I have similar mods, and I did it instead.
Why is everyone so demanding. You want something? do it yourself. Be thankful anyone is providing any of this information for you.
I had ZERO to gain from this, yet i'm being criticized for not doing more dynos or testing it on a stock car? More dynos cost money. You're asking me to spend money to meet YOUR requirements?
Lets drop these ignorant comments. Take the information for what it is. If anyone has any addition requirements they need to add, step up to the plate and do it.
This forum has so many whining sh|t talkers. First all_bark's thread about the kinetix stuff, then we have 350zdanny's dyno being crapped on, and now this. There guys are making an effort to help, only to have critics whip out their checklist and tell us how we screwed up in their book. Get off your lazy *** and do it right then. Pretty soon it's going to get to a point where no one will want to post any data, reviews, or results in fear of getting crapped on by internet auditers.
Last edited by zxsaint; Feb 7, 2004 at 10:44 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,510
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From: Santa Cruz, CA
Thanks for the dyno's.
I think you guys did a fine job.
I think HFM should edit his initial comments now that the dyno's have been posted, though. It was a little disingenious to say that the peak gains were negligible and then say that he never really looked at the top end (which is where the plenum has been making it's gains all along).
Now that the dyno has been posted, and shows a near 10 HP gain @ about 6300 RPM, I think it would look less biased if HFM were to mention that in his initial post.
Even with that slight complaint, I'm very happy to see more dyno results, and I sincerely applaud all of you for your efforts.
Great job!
-D'oh!
I think you guys did a fine job.
I think HFM should edit his initial comments now that the dyno's have been posted, though. It was a little disingenious to say that the peak gains were negligible and then say that he never really looked at the top end (which is where the plenum has been making it's gains all along).
Now that the dyno has been posted, and shows a near 10 HP gain @ about 6300 RPM, I think it would look less biased if HFM were to mention that in his initial post.
Even with that slight complaint, I'm very happy to see more dyno results, and I sincerely applaud all of you for your efforts.
Great job!
-D'oh!
Originally posted by D'oh
It was a little disingenious to say that the peak gains were negligible and then say that he never really looked at the top end (which is where the plenum has been making it's gains all along.
It was a little disingenious to say that the peak gains were negligible and then say that he never really looked at the top end (which is where the plenum has been making it's gains all along.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: In my car, Arkansas
Well, I for one, am real happy to see these results. Some of you guys can just nitpick at anything, doing no real work yourself. Just take the results for face value, on a modded Z, the plenum adds less power. Of course, when you do mod your car a number of times NA, you already know that with each mod, your gain will be less.
I have a stock car right now, but I don't live in Cali, lol. I still believe that on a stock car, the plenum will make right at the power that has been shown for it. But like everyone else, once I do one mod to get more power, it won't be the only mod. Like as been said, the popcharger and crawford stuff (plenum, headers, cats), look attractive, although expensive for 25 rwhp.
I have a stock car for one reason, nothing NA has attracted me for the price. It is FI or nothing, unless it is maybe one mod(plenum, still). And this is coming from someone with a stock (enginewise) car that has kept it that way on purpose. Can't see spending over 2K on mods to get 25 rwhp.
I have a stock car right now, but I don't live in Cali, lol. I still believe that on a stock car, the plenum will make right at the power that has been shown for it. But like everyone else, once I do one mod to get more power, it won't be the only mod. Like as been said, the popcharger and crawford stuff (plenum, headers, cats), look attractive, although expensive for 25 rwhp.
I have a stock car for one reason, nothing NA has attracted me for the price. It is FI or nothing, unless it is maybe one mod(plenum, still). And this is coming from someone with a stock (enginewise) car that has kept it that way on purpose. Can't see spending over 2K on mods to get 25 rwhp.
Last edited by little_rod; Feb 8, 2004 at 02:47 AM.
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From: NOR - CAL
To me it seems as if the thread started off as anti Crawford before the Dyno was even posted, it appears to me to make power up top and was initially stated it doesn't is why I mention that.
I wasn't there so it doesn’t mean anything to me. I have been touting the RT Cats from Performance but now I am not so sure. I need to start re-evaluating who I promote for free. Don’t say “how did we get involved either, that is silly when you read the thread.
Performance only seems to promote what they sale. I didn't like the anti Borla Header comment but then again Performance doesn't sell Borla or Crawford do they?
I run both and have a 7100 rev limiter, like Vandy said dyno shmyno, pull beside me on I Interstate 5 South with some clear highway and I will be happy to show you what my Crawford/ Borla setup does at 7k rpm's. Most "Independent" and fair dyno's are done from stock. How can you do a fair review of a product on a modded car? Take a STOCK car then add one mod then dyno. I am really disappointed in this all coming out like this, to me it seems like a big anti Crawford campaign that was designed to fail from inception and oh what timing eh? No one here will ever convince me that my Borla/RT Cats/ Borla with Crawford setup is a bad choice especially after reflashing to optimize for the mods. With 20+ years of experience on Z's behind this mod I hate to see what other plenums do.
Take all new plenums to this same dyno with the same mods and same witnesses on the same temperature day then get back to me please. The plenum evens out the air flow and makes power at the top end and none of this seems to be being mentioned in this independent review. Independent to whom? Next time do a stock car then add all the mods if you want more credibility. Performance sells UR pulleys, add all of zxsain't mods *then* dyno the pulleys **only** at 6500 rpm’s and report back the gains please
Flame suit on, just wanted to plop my 2 cents in so I get subscription notifications to read others opinions. A full year later and how many plenum sales later and how many Crawford owners have lodged complaints? This is why I think Dyno contests are dumb and refuse to be involved in them. A Dyno can be skewed to show gains or losses with plus or minus 3rwhp.
Signed, a happy Borla and Crawford customer who has ran the plenum N/A, N20 and now FI. How many here run Borla Headers and Crawford besides me? Like them? I thought so... Flame away because I disagree, I can do that right since I have owned everything listed including the pulleys and have raced with them? Next time flash the ECU (they are 15 minutes from you) put it on a stock car and run it up to 6800 rpm's and report back, fair is fair man.
I wasn't there so it doesn’t mean anything to me. I have been touting the RT Cats from Performance but now I am not so sure. I need to start re-evaluating who I promote for free. Don’t say “how did we get involved either, that is silly when you read the thread.
Performance only seems to promote what they sale. I didn't like the anti Borla Header comment but then again Performance doesn't sell Borla or Crawford do they?
I run both and have a 7100 rev limiter, like Vandy said dyno shmyno, pull beside me on I Interstate 5 South with some clear highway and I will be happy to show you what my Crawford/ Borla setup does at 7k rpm's. Most "Independent" and fair dyno's are done from stock. How can you do a fair review of a product on a modded car? Take a STOCK car then add one mod then dyno. I am really disappointed in this all coming out like this, to me it seems like a big anti Crawford campaign that was designed to fail from inception and oh what timing eh? No one here will ever convince me that my Borla/RT Cats/ Borla with Crawford setup is a bad choice especially after reflashing to optimize for the mods. With 20+ years of experience on Z's behind this mod I hate to see what other plenums do.
Take all new plenums to this same dyno with the same mods and same witnesses on the same temperature day then get back to me please. The plenum evens out the air flow and makes power at the top end and none of this seems to be being mentioned in this independent review. Independent to whom? Next time do a stock car then add all the mods if you want more credibility. Performance sells UR pulleys, add all of zxsain't mods *then* dyno the pulleys **only** at 6500 rpm’s and report back the gains please
Flame suit on, just wanted to plop my 2 cents in so I get subscription notifications to read others opinions. A full year later and how many plenum sales later and how many Crawford owners have lodged complaints? This is why I think Dyno contests are dumb and refuse to be involved in them. A Dyno can be skewed to show gains or losses with plus or minus 3rwhp.
Signed, a happy Borla and Crawford customer who has ran the plenum N/A, N20 and now FI. How many here run Borla Headers and Crawford besides me? Like them? I thought so... Flame away because I disagree, I can do that right since I have owned everything listed including the pulleys and have raced with them? Next time flash the ECU (they are 15 minutes from you) put it on a stock car and run it up to 6800 rpm's and report back, fair is fair man.
Originally posted by zxsaint
This forum has so many whining sh|t talkers. First all_bark's thread about the kinetix stuff, then we have 350zdanny's dyno being crapped on, and now this. There guys are making an effort to help, only to have critics whip out their checklist and tell us how we screwed up in their book. Get off your lazy *** and do it right then. Pretty soon it's going to get to a point where no one will want to post any data, reviews, or results in fear of getting crapped on by internet auditers.
This forum has so many whining sh|t talkers. First all_bark's thread about the kinetix stuff, then we have 350zdanny's dyno being crapped on, and now this. There guys are making an effort to help, only to have critics whip out their checklist and tell us how we screwed up in their book. Get off your lazy *** and do it right then. Pretty soon it's going to get to a point where no one will want to post any data, reviews, or results in fear of getting crapped on by internet auditers.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 380
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From: Nashville, TN
Originally posted by zzzya
I first of all do not understand why the Dyno was done on a modded car? HFM was ranting about having the Dyno done on a stock car before and after Plenum install. It has been known and shown in previous Dynos that Crawford has posted that the Plenum will give peak HP gains on a stock car but when you start to mod the car with exhaust, HF cats/test pipes etc., then the only remaining increase on the HP curve from the Plenum is the top end, which again was the case with the results posted here. Again 350zdanny added the plenum to a car with no exhaust mods and wow what do you know, it showed the same gains that have been published before on a pretty much stock car, he has a CAI as well..... I am dissapointed that HFM did not follow through on what he made such a fuss about, independant Dynos on a stock car before and after the Plenum install.
I first of all do not understand why the Dyno was done on a modded car? HFM was ranting about having the Dyno done on a stock car before and after Plenum install. It has been known and shown in previous Dynos that Crawford has posted that the Plenum will give peak HP gains on a stock car but when you start to mod the car with exhaust, HF cats/test pipes etc., then the only remaining increase on the HP curve from the Plenum is the top end, which again was the case with the results posted here. Again 350zdanny added the plenum to a car with no exhaust mods and wow what do you know, it showed the same gains that have been published before on a pretty much stock car, he has a CAI as well..... I am dissapointed that HFM did not follow through on what he made such a fuss about, independant Dynos on a stock car before and after the Plenum install.
All along the argument was to run the plenum on a stock car...then they run it on a modded car. These results are TAINTED!
Like VandyZ said- look at the Top 10 List and the other independent dynos that of course no one believed except the people that paid to have them done on their cars and were pleased with the results. Let's compare apples to apples, and those results have been posted over and over again!
It's like Ripley's...Believe It Or Not!
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,686
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From: NOR - CAL
That is why I no longer share my dyno's or drag strip times here. Doesn't matter what they are, someone is gonna crap all over them.
I was at a Major Import Car Show yesterday www.importmotion.com and people recognized my car from way down in San Diego (10 hours from me) and were giving it props, I revved my engine and showed them my mods and they said "that car is hella fast, I saw him at Sac Raceway. " The racing and car show circuit is so much more friendlier and respectful!
They didn't ask for a Dyno, they just knew by looking! I was blown away how far this Internet stuff travels and that my Nor Cal car was well know that far south without a Dyno.
10 PSI will do that I guess....
Most people saw me race last year and that was good enough for them for my word. Real world = much better than Cyber world IMHO when it comes to mutual respect and apreciation of our cars.
Ok, so the test wasn't as scientific as possible. So what?
Here's my take. To measure the worth of a mod you cannot judge solely by max HP. You have to compare the total area of the HP graph over the RPM range before and after. That tells you the Actual Mod Benefit.
On that particular day, on that particular dyno, on that particular car, at that particular oil temp, the total area under the curve BEFORE the plenum is greater than the total area under the curve AFTER the plenum was install.
Yeah, looking at this dyno if the before car and the after car were both on the freeway at 6000 rpms in 4th gear, sure, the one with the Crawford would be able to pull on the other one from 6000 to 6500. But if you're basing this on the graph then you MUST CONCLUDE that the car without the plenum would already be a car length ahead by then.
It's the total area under the graph that determines Actual Mod Benefit. Because unless the race only lasts from 6000 to 6500 rpms then that "gain" doesn't mean jack on the track or on the street.
--Steve
Here's my take. To measure the worth of a mod you cannot judge solely by max HP. You have to compare the total area of the HP graph over the RPM range before and after. That tells you the Actual Mod Benefit.
On that particular day, on that particular dyno, on that particular car, at that particular oil temp, the total area under the curve BEFORE the plenum is greater than the total area under the curve AFTER the plenum was install.
Yeah, looking at this dyno if the before car and the after car were both on the freeway at 6000 rpms in 4th gear, sure, the one with the Crawford would be able to pull on the other one from 6000 to 6500. But if you're basing this on the graph then you MUST CONCLUDE that the car without the plenum would already be a car length ahead by then.
It's the total area under the graph that determines Actual Mod Benefit. Because unless the race only lasts from 6000 to 6500 rpms then that "gain" doesn't mean jack on the track or on the street.
--Steve
. . . alot of good points being made.
I knew their was a risk sending the plenum to the biggest (obvious) Crawford naysayer, but I know the product makes power. Again it was proved here. He saw power put posted it in a way that was confusing at best. The gains up top do look good to me. Those of you who track the car know what that means!
zxsaint is in it the same as me, he just gave up his car as I gave up my plenum. Lets not question his involvement.
Speaking of the plenum, what to do with it now? Where is it going? Performance? Strictly Z? Why? I included a prepaid label directly back here. I think you guys still want to mess around for with it! Go ahead knock your socks off. I have a new special SBD Crawford Plenum made just for me. No rush.
I knew their was a risk sending the plenum to the biggest (obvious) Crawford naysayer, but I know the product makes power. Again it was proved here. He saw power put posted it in a way that was confusing at best. The gains up top do look good to me. Those of you who track the car know what that means!
zxsaint is in it the same as me, he just gave up his car as I gave up my plenum. Lets not question his involvement.
Speaking of the plenum, what to do with it now? Where is it going? Performance? Strictly Z? Why? I included a prepaid label directly back here. I think you guys still want to mess around for with it! Go ahead knock your socks off. I have a new special SBD Crawford Plenum made just for me. No rush.
Z Flier
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: VA - USA
Originally posted by zxsaint
I think you guys are taking this a little too far.
1. HFM was curious to see an independent dyno (among many others).
I think you guys are taking this a little too far.
1. HFM was curious to see an independent dyno (among many others).
1) HFM didn't want an independant dyno.. he wanted an independant dyno before and after on STOCK CARS! Stock SPECIFICIALLY. He says it OVER and OVER and OVER again.. on threads other people start.. and hijacks.. or even threads he starts.
Example:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....light=crawford
Quote:
"If you have a stock baseline followed by Crawford product please post your dyno here."
"The dyno must be from a stock Z followed by installation and redyno after installation."
Example 2
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....d&pagenumber=2
hfm makes this stink all over the board.. and Vandy steps up and sends him his own plenum. Now between the three resources out there, you guys pull this together. That is excellent, and we appreciate it. But to 'close the book' with comments like hfm had.. when he:
1) didn't statisfy his own challenge
2) posts comments counter to the dyno graph itself
Don't you think your comments about the stock car are a little over the top? You are in southern california, with hundreds of Z members on this site alone. Now does this mean they drop off trees? No. Does this mean they are impossible to find? No Does this mean it would be easy? No
But if hfm is going to stomp around the forum for two months singing his song.. when VandyZ volunteers his own parts to satisfy hfm.. hfm shorts everyone else with his initial comments and lack of completeness.
I appreciate the effort everyone has put in.. but we are talking about dyno pulls here.. what $50-$80 bucks? We all blow that much or more on a bar/club on a Saturday night. I think the time investment and parts investments the people involved have 'donated' are more significant then the actual dyno costs.