I agree with ZXSaint and Max. From now on my dynos are my own. You want something? Do it yourself. I took test pipes out and disconnected my grounding kit just to make my car as stock as possible for HFM and all those guys, and what happens? Some douche bag Chris M jumps on my results as if he contributed anything to this discussion. Nah. That'll be all for me. I'll just sit here and troll HFM's posts for a few months.

Actually, you know what, that wouldn't be right either. I'm gonna dyno my car again. I'm running a dyno day March 13th. Theres 15 Z's going as of now. I'll before/after dyno my car with my Injen intake, then I'll pay to have someone else put the plenum on their stock car (because we've got 7 of those coming, and I'm in NJ. Ooh look how easy I found those) and do a before/after to compare. Then I'll tear up the dyno sheets and **** on the computer that took the results. Because most of the ********* on this board aren't worth the effort and they'll just rip apart those results too.

Dan

 

Search my posts back about a year. I posted 20 feet of torque from a Dyno Jet with the CAI and exhaust and was laughed at, it is nothing new so why bother like you said?

Let em eat cake is my new thought process, I have no problem with the car owner but then to call out the headers I used was just over the top for me so my dyno's and track slips will be on my website this year not here and my track just opened last week !!!

 

Danny,

I think the only thing wacky with your post was that you did the last pulls in 5th. Not calling it intentional.. but if one of your goals was to compare the two, why didn't you get the operator to do it in 4th the same as the other pulls?

I'm not calling them anything.. thanks for your posts. The guy here chrisM calling out like he did was just wrong.

Its an attitude here that I think is like a disease.. why can't people discuss without trying be the 'cool guy who points out all the wrongs'.

 

Yeah, lets all just chill. Nothing is any different then 2 days ago.

 

If anything, going from comparing the 4th gear before to 5th gear after would be more conservative, but there really isn't much difference anyway. He probably would have been 1-2hp higher if they did the after in 4th.

 

I think we are all so desperate for an affordable way to add some signifcant power to this engine it's driving us crazy. Why doesn't Nissan just turbo the damn thing. Everybody that wants it will be happy to pay 5 or 6k more for the car.

 

He did one pull in 5th gear to see if there would be any difference in the results. He's does most work with mustangs, so he works with 4 direct drive gears and 2 overdrive gears. Our car only has 1 overdrive gear and he wanted to see the difference between 4th and 5th. I didn't compare it to anything. I'll show my graphs with respect to speed if you like, or gear ratio, to prove that. That was pull 4 or 5 of that session anyway. I got 3 or 4 good 4th gear pulls to compare. And then since my highest baseline had a gap at 4k rpm I threw that out as well as the highest crawford pull, but I would have posted those if someone asked. It just doesn't show much since there is a huge gap. And up to 4k every graph is just about the same: within the error of the dynojet.

I don't know if you though all the pulls were in 5th, but that is just not the case. I would plot the 4th gear baseline vs. the 5th gear crawford if you like. You will be able to tell that it is a different gear. It just looks like the graph i shifted up.

dan

*edit* and what I could have done if people were that skeptical is print the highest baseline vs. highest crawford at the shop and scan it. all someone had to do was ask. I would have given up more of my time, but **** that.

 

Danny..

Simple question.. simple answers. Its all good.. just pointing out what maybe people were 'attracting' themselves to. Unfortunatly since most people here want to take the 'attack' stance when asking such questions.. plus the mob mentality compounding that.. surely people feel attacked and un-appreciated after that.

Since you have all you data digital.. you've got quite a resource there, have fun with it. Don't let the pouncing haters get you down. With so many members here and given the average social capacity of people in the US.. we're bound to have our share of goofs.

Just think.. it could be worse.. imagine if our cars were affordable by every 16yr old... I want to lurk on a 'stang forum just to see if its better or worse

 

hey.. and just a side note.. for people posting 'just to get in the thread'.. you can always use the 'subscribe to this thread' link at the bottom of the page too! Just FYI if you haven't noticed it before.

 

Guys - Man, ya'll R more hardcore ( & vicious ) than the gang over at ClubLexus!! I ran across the same kind of doubters when I used MY $$ to dyno test the TorqueMaster plug for the CL site. Kinda like organizing a Group Buy - ain't worth the trouble because SOMEBODY won't be happy!
Anyway, I felt the same way after installing all my mods on my G35. I justified them by considering them the foundation for future serious mods ( T/T; S/C or nitrous ). In the meantime, it seems that the key to optimizing any mod on our cars revolves around the ECU & that's where TechnoSquare ( and others ) come in. The factory ECU can only "learn" up to whatever the limits are that have been programmed into it by Nissan. I had a Rod Millen CAI on my GS400 that actually slowed the car down because the ECU couldn't compensate for the additional airflow with extra fuel so I leaned out ( causing the ECU to retard the timing & ultimately slow the car down ). Getting back to the VQ35 - after I had my ECU reflashed for my current mods by TS, the G's now a different animal! My point is that, IMHO, I wouldn't expect much from any modification w/o tweaking the electronics as the factory ECU will only allow so much adjustment. Think of it like the early days of rejetting a carb or advancing the spark curve ( via springs & weights ) in a distributor to fine tune things. Man, I can hear the younger guys asking "what's a carb & distributor?"

 

Let me clear this up. I sent a return label. No one knows where the label is. Performance Nissan will be helping get it back to us.

There is no rush. If Performance wants to try it for a while, I would be honored. If there is anyone else that wants to try it while it is in the possession of either HFM, Performance, Strictly Z you are at the mercy of the bearer.

When it returns to me, I will be taking it to ZdayZ at The Tail of the Dragon for people to try. We may even auction it off or something.

 

This thread is entirely too funny!
HFM...I see no mods listed for your ride, nor a link to them, so I have one statement to make for you ...Let's race!

If anyone expected an unbiased review from HFM after all the cr@p he's posted in the past....get real!

 

Okay, thanks for the anticipated responses. Here are my follow-up comments to as many as possible.

Part 1 of 2.

Adam,

I forgot to thank you for sending the plenum. Thank you. I wasn't expecting to see it after my incident with Chris. You've been very professional throughout.

I would say this is standard practice by Crawford loyalists. If you post anything critical, true and proven or not, expect to be attacked by a multitude. For these people who have blindly bought the plenum, enjoy your plenum. Spend at will and enjoy your upgrades. For those that are looking for value, weed out the bull posts note the posts that make sense and figure out what gives performance for your hard earned buck.


Hey Yuichi,

Thanks for handling the shipment. No, these are independent dynos.

You crack me up man!

That's about how I feel about the plenum. Nice dyno, I need to get the UR Pully you're using.

I totally agree. You can't miss with wheels, tires, suspension and brakes. Sooner or later, usually much later, engine modifications are eventually recognized as a good performance value or not. It's always smart to let the people who absolutely must have the newest and claimed best performance modification to fiddle around with engine mods.

I'm not even going to argue with someone who has been testing products and dyno testing products for 18 years.

You're an expert.

Sounds like dyno time is cheap for you. If you care to test this product, be my guest. Until then, you will just have to treat this data for what it is.

Thanks. And, you're right about that. Frankly, I'm just as sceptical about the Kinetix plenum as well. The only difference I see is plastic may have less heat soak. But, I remain with the belief that this is a less than 5 hp mod across most of the powerband.

Agreed. My only comment on this is, had their been serious gains after three pulls, the number of pulls would not be an issue raised by the Crawford followers.

Rant? I don't think I ever ranted about this. I mean really, a rant? Are we talking about a big temper tantrum where I'm jumping up and down and yelling holy murder rant or are we just talking about a little whine? Rant, eh? Naw, I don't think I was ranting.

Saint answers this somewhere above. Vandy shipped the plenum to me to test knowing what mods I have on my car. If you care to produce a stock car, be my guest. I'm just glad Saint offered his car so I didn't have to adjust my strut brace.

Let's be honest here, zzzya. Anything I do would disappoint you.

All I can say is, enjoy spending your money on Crawford products and enjoy your gains. You will get gains, but I know, you won't be getting those gains with any degree of thrift.

Oh you know what, forget about producing a stock car. I remember, you don't even have access to a dyno where you're located. Listen, why don't you just freaking enjoy the dyno results when you can get it and stop being critical when you're in no position to prove otherwise - there, now that was a rant!

That was awesome man!

 

A bit too much bashing! Slap on those parts. Dyno them. Show the damn slips! That's all...quick, simple and easy. All writing with no backup...cough, cough...is just pure bull$hit! I like the fellas on here that are posting their slips. Thanks to the guys on the "Top 10 NA" list...

 

Part 2 of 2.

As usual, you are correct. And, thank you for your comments. I was waiting to post this response to all the expected responses before saying anything.

Please consider this an amendment to the original post

My comment about gains at redline were wrong. There are gains from about 6300 to redline approaching 8-10 hp.

However, those gains last for a very brief period of time, are not reflective of gains across the entire power band and fall short of the 19 or 20 hp claimed by Crawford. My belief is that this fraction of a second gain is what people are noticing with the plenum by butt dyno. It does not change my overall opinion of the plenum as far as performance for the buck.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by little_rod

Well, I for one, am real happy to see these results. Some of you guys can just nitpick at anything, doing no real work yourself. Just take the results for face value, on a modded Z, the plenum adds less power. Of course, when you do mod your car a number of times NA, you already know that with each mod, your gain will be less.

Thanks little_rod.

Peformance Nissan's involvement with this dyno test was this:

1. Jeff negotiated the comped dyno runs, saving me some dough.

2. Jeff offered to ship the plenum back since they ship out so much anyway, saving me some dough.

That's it.

All these folks have done is to save me some green back, something they do often for their customers. And, so far, in my case, the only thing I've bought from them is a $27 ashtray. But, with the way they do business, they can expect more sales from me.

These are good folks. Please don't bring them into this Max. They try hard to stay neutral in these sorts of matters.


Yeah, it sucks to get dumped on for doing a service for the community. I didn't get paid for this. Saint didn't get paid for this. We volunteered our time doing the installation, Saint donated his car for the tests. The dyno shop donated free runs. Thanks Jeff! Do we get thanks? Well, yes, quite a few people above have. To these people, and I hope I may speak for Saint as well when I say, you're welcome.

Had the results been per Crawford claims, they would have been posted, comments and recommendations would have been vastly different. To the people who just love to dump. All I really have to say to you is, if the results were exactly per Crawford claims, we would hear nothing but accolades from you.

You don't like the results. That's tough, and so is life. Show us you're tougher and do your own god damn independent dyno. Hell, Danny was the only other person who cared enough to do anything other than type some crap over a keyboard.



Um, read my last comment please.


That is the best summary I've read. I agree with it entirely. Thanks for your post Steve.

I was really hoping not to get into this with you. Last time I had something to say to you, it wasn't totally nice and I ended up having to apologize. This time around, no apologies.

Why don't you go back and read my comment a couple up. You want to spend the money, do it. You want to complain about what I said when Vandy shipped the plenum to someone with mods to demo, tough. Do something about it instead of sitting in front of that keyboard and monitor or, frankly, shut the hell up.

You know, someone at the dyno asked me, what if the plenum produces what is claimed. My response was, "if that happens, I will personally suck Phoenix's dick."

KJY9, I'm pleased to report, I'm not going to have to turn into a **********.

 

You would think lol, except TS gets trashed here too, welcome to the Internet lol.

As for bringing Performance in I am a "customer" too, bought my RT's and some other stuff there even met him in person **at Technosquare** ahem...

Think he is flashed ?

I just took exception with the negative comments about headers they do not sell that plenty of us are quite happy with thank you very much. Had they left the anti Borla comment out all would be cool.

HFM, you seem a little bent today which makes this seem personal when I read it. Thus my doubts on an unbiased review, I am allowed to doubt and you can understand why right?

You took all of these comments and posted them out of context lol, but I do want to thank you for your time.

I want to stress my original points, that it makes power on the high end, it was never advertised to me any other way. When you race it becomes a factor, add in a half second through 5 or 6 gears and well do the math on your ET, now add in that the car was modded so add maybe 10 more on top of the high end if it were a stock car. Heat soak? Trust me having spent a full season at the track. With this engine nothing is gonna keep this engine cool when hot lapping bro, look at the pics I have with blue ice on my manifold last season, whatever works, this engine runs hot no matter what plenum is on it.

Anyway if you are happy then that is all that matters, but you don't seem happy, how come?

Is it because us Crawford Plenum owners are passing you at the track still because we all decided to keep ours anyways after your "indepandant" review?

It's all good man, it's just a forum.

 

I just got this PM from 350zdanny. What's hit problem? I dont think I bashed him at all, I just mentioned that the way he get his final numbers wassnt exactly scientific(butchered). Which they are...Cant argue that.

I STILL cannot believe some people.....

350zdanny

"You can take all the swipes at Crawford that you want, but I am not Crawford. Don't take swipes at me for running my car on the dyno at my own expense. I didn't give two ***** if the results were positive or negative, aside from the fact that I would probably sell the plenum if it didn't make power on my car.

If you think my results were butchered, then go get your own. I'm not selling for Crawford. I threw that up for everyone who wanted to know. I did my best with the resources I had, and if you can't produce something better, shut your ****ing mouth.

Dan"

 

 

I have a tendency to view the PM thing as a more personal and not necessarily for public sharing kind of thing, but that's just me.

In any case, he's kind of cranked up about people slamming the results and the testing when he went through the time, effort and money to post some dyno reslults. In a way, I can't blame him, but that's just part of the 'net and sharing questions and info.

My wife sometimes acuses me of having UMS (Ugly Mood Swings) when I mention the PMS to her! :=)

 

man if all this $hit comes out after I post the dyno tomorrow i am going to quit this freakin site.

my thoughts are BELIEVE HIM or DON'T BELIEVE HIM.
and BUY THE PLENUM, DONT BUY THE PLENUM, KEEP THE PLENUM OR GET RID OF THE PLENUM. Those are everyones choices, because his answers do not match yours do not neccesarily make them wrong (or yours either for that matter) it must makes them his. once again believe, do not believe, buy it or don't.

Bottom line is - some people try to give info and I always appreciate and honest effort, AND some people have problems believing.

this $hit $ucks to me...