drozzy

Very simple. Is the high price upgrade package worth the $1250+ difference given no cams (ever) and the exhaust setup, or would you stick with the low price package? Context is ~4K miles joy riding in the Summer with a few passes on the 1/4 each month.

[Stillen HFC's + Borla TD exhaust; non-Revup DE w/ 44K mi, Osiris tuned 237 ft-lbs @ 4700 / 249 HP @ 6200 on Dynapack; Borla headers bought and scheduled for install]

Low price ($314+tune)
Keep Injen SP intake (converted to short ram) or put back stock '06 air box
MD 5/16" Copper iso-thermal spacer kit $314
Re-tune

Mid price 1 ($883+tune)
Keep Injen SP intake (converted to short ram) or put back stock '06 air box
MD 5/16" Copper iso-thermal spacer kit $314
MD MREV2 $569
Re-tune

Mid price 2 ($999+tune)
AdminTuning 3.5" intake $330
NWP 75mm TB $355
MD 5/16" Copper iso-thermal spacer kit $314
Re-tune

High price ($1568+tune)
AdminTuning 3.5" intake $330
NWP 75mm TB $355
MD 5/16" Copper iso-thermal spacer kit $314
MD MREV2 $569
Re-tune

I'm getting the copper because the Z sees 3-4 deg C weather in October sometimes. All opinions welcome of course, thanks guys.

travlee

iTrader: (8)

Save the money and invest in yourself...

Atreyu'z 350

What are your long term goals for this car? Do you plan on keeping it N/A, or are you eventually going FI?

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I believe the copper gasket/coolant circulation works in the opposite scenario as you are thinking...I believe it circulates coolant during hot/operating temp condition versus cold/initial operation.

If someone tempt'd me with intake temps of 3-4* C I'd give my left nut.

if it was me and you dont anticipate FI, have the cash for 'high price' option I'd do it as it'll max out your NA bolt ons. You 'could' do cams later on down the road if you wanted another bump in power.

drozzy

I'll keep it N/A for sure, I admire the risk taking and huge potential that come with FI but not for me... cams would be around CAD $4000 altogether including retune and I don't have that kind of cash. I'm guessing doing JWT C8's or something similar in 2022 could be difficult, part/service wise (?).

This is the end of mods for me, minus upgrading shocks (keeping stock springs, have Eibach sways) and replacing OEM Brembo rotors & pads in 2019.

Thanks for clearing that up! I thought it was meant to prevent TB freezing in low temps... MD says get it if it snows in your area. Yeah, they do hold one or two test and tune nights in October and 3 to 12 deg C is the usual temp range!

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

hmmmmm...maybe - I didnt engineer the kit so maybe it does...

If you get serious with cams give JWT a call and ask them what cam will work best with your setup...just bc the C8 is the most aggressive doesnt mean it's going to be the best cam for your setup.

I would try to do all these mods at once if I were you...just save up a little longer...

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

The coolant is indeed circulated to prevent icing, though it isn't a common issue. Here is some insight to help you as I did DD my car in the freezing winter and I do also have similar mods. The iso thermal is borderline useless if you have the NWP TB, it has built in ports so you could just get the basic kit and route hoses to it to keep the warmer in effect. The only reason the get it would be to get the aramid gasket, which is useful but requires removing the lower plenum, so I would personally only do it if you replace the lower plenum. MID 2 would be my choice BTW. Also, I would highly suggest not putting the borla headers on, they are known to lose power, and it is a very expensive mod labor wise. If you want short style headers I would go with Tomei or Nismo, or go long tubes.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I'm not arguing with anyone here nor motordyne but this is dumb and dare I say this was because of a lawyer & some CYA...

two extremes:
A: you're in alaska and your car is frozen, like frozen, like f'n frozen ... everything is frozen and now you circulate 34* F coolant through a frozen TB for a few minutes and it's supposed to do something?

B: youre car is running at normal operating temperature (+/-190*F) and coolant is cycling through the engine/radiator and now this copper plate ... so you're effectively heating your TB/upper plenum and thus your intake charge?

I know I know, they give you a shut off valve and I think Nissan has this on an OEM setup?

I can't even remember how long ago I chopped those off the car!

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

Yes it is indeed OEM, you are thinking of it wrong, it doesn't function to warm it up from initial start. The theory behind having it is the electronic TBs have weaker springs and if by an odd chance you got any moisture or condensation in the intake tract your TB "could" freeze in the open position which is no good, but like I said it is a rare occasion and honestly you should not be driving the car in any weather like that lol.

drozzy

Good to know... I mean we're not talking constant driving in sub-0 C temps, and I had the regular iso-thermal kit on my '06 G35x years ago with no issue (although the following owner did have a vacuum issue at some point). And now that I think about it, that thing went through -20 C weather more than once.

About the headers, I found a bunch of threads on here (2004-2010) where people were repeating this -even quoting David Borla- over and over to discourage members from buying them... but I never found A) a thoroughly detailed explanation as to why their design/fab is poor, or B) a 1 for 1 swap of Borla vs. (non-Borla) headers in a full bolt on, NA setup with dyno sheets.

The shop I've been trusting with my cars since 2011 stands behind Borla products, even suggested that I could pursue a refund pre-install (scheduled for May) if I found clear cut evidence that Borlas would hurt rather than help. Tomeis and Megans are available through them too. They're all former Nissan/Infiniti techs who left the dealer to work for a racer & master mechanic who used to race 200SX's, Maximas etc in the 90's... they do it all from Corolla oil changes to FI Supras and Z's. The owner now races a G35 coupe in CSCS if I'm not mistaken.

If you could link something about the Borlas clearly not making power I would appreciate very much - thanks!

Atreyu'z 350

+1 Exactly what I was getting at.

drozzy

Thanks for the feedback guys, it narrows it down to whether or not I'm adding the MREV2... Hydrazine has a thread on non-Revup DE dynos for the 5/16" spacer, MREV2 and both at the same time (vs. baselines).


It shows nice gains through the ~3000-4800 RPM range generated specifically by the MREV2, which was sort of a follow-up to how the non-Revup DE's couldn't benefit from the original MREV / wanted more performance out of their lower plenums.

Last three questions before I get back to the shop, thanks again for your help...

1. I read how some posters actually DIY'ed a home made MREV2 with some machine work on their lower plenums... is this worth exploring vs. paying $569 for an MREV2?

2. Do I need to add Z1's 3" MAF housing to the shopping list or does the AdminTuning 3.5" intake take care of the MAF piece? Please excuse the incomprehension on my part, I couldn't figure it out reading the half dozen of threads where the 3.5" intake was used.

3. Would getting Tomei headers (Expreme v2) instead of the Borlas affect the intake/exhaust puzzle negatively since it's not cammed?

Borlas were chosen partly because I don't intend to do cams in the future.... what if I did, 2 to 4 years from now? Say something liveable for a DD (256/264/272, I'm no expert but that's what prelim research tells me). I wonder if Borla's header design, which is apparently a bit similar to OEM's according to folks on here from the past, was picked because it would help maximize breathing on my non-cammed setup... flow wise, would the Borlas get overwhelmed with a cammed setup that makes the engine sing in the 6600-7000 RPM range?

Once again I raise my beer to the community, it's fun to randomly go on page 112 of a given sub-forum and see what people were experimenting with back in '05, 08, 11.





Hoping to change those curves a little. And I'll get a proper main reading screenshot next time, formatting was a bit of an issue last time.

travlee

iTrader: (8)

do all breathing mods then get it tuned

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

biggest influence will be your tune ... done expect much gain until you get tuned.

drozzy

This will be a re-tune (Osiris tuner kit), the dyno is about 4 miles from the shop where headers, intake, TB and spacer will be installed. Still undecided about the MREV2.

I read many times here that unless your internals are built the non-Revup motor doesn't make more power past the 6600 RPM redline, no matter what bolt-ons you have. The tuner guy I go to knows I value broad, mid/high-mid range gains over gains at 6600-7000 RPM... isn't 4000-6500 the only portion of a non-Revup powerband where there are gains to be had anyway?

travlee

iTrader: (8)

Shorty headers gain vs pita install = not worth it

Atreyu'z 350

The vq35de non-rev-up basically already comes stock with the MREV2 lower collector so you won't see much of a gain with it. Maybe 1-3hp tops from that part exclusively. People usually put the MREV2 on the rev-up engines in conjunction with a 5/16 or 1/2in spacer to see the most gains(15-18hp) for which that part was intended.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

I have seen dynos but it's been a while, the quality of the Borla style aren't the greatest and I'm sure the collector doesn't even have a spike in it. What I can tell you is I have Tomei and they have the most complete kit out there and it totally changes the sound of the car, I have HFC and the Borla exhaust too. I have a modified lower plenum but I can't really say I felt much of a difference. It along with my upper plenum and my spacer are sitting in my basement as I have the velocity intake now lol.

drozzy

Makes sense. 1 to 3 though, I don't know... Tony (?) or Hydrazine shows 8 ft-lbs and 9 HP from that part alone, on the same motor. I know value per HP gained is pretty poor but it still is what it is.... no?





I've seen the Tomei headers in multiple threads, some with one for one swaps and dyno sheets. Not the Borlas. People who bought them (and somehow never installed them) posted pictures in 2004 that are now Photobucketed-to-****, and guys were saying they looked very similar to the Stillens, whether it's a good thing or not. No, they don't appear to have a spike like the ridiculous one on the Crawfords... and it's less of a pain / less hours to install Borlas than DC's according to my shop (off engine mounts!).

You got Tomei cams to go with them? Which ones?
Since you got the Velocity, did the tuner squeeze a lot of power out in the 6500-7200 RPM range?

Atreyu'z 350

I'm wondering if that was his highest pull, or his average pull. Still, a 6hp increase from what Motordyne ran. Makes me also wonder what other variables his engine was exposed to during that pull(fuel quality/grade, atmospheric pressure, compression). I'd have to see 7 to 10 more pulls like that from Hydrazine to personally verify consistency. In the end, it just comes down to one simple question. Is a possible 9hp at best worth $550 to you.
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...-Manifold.aspx