OFFICIAL Kinetix post, plenum issues, discussion etc.
07-14-2004, 10:00 AM
#41
I'm waiting
Originally posted by Z BOY
Oh shift, now there are fitment problems with the cats??? I refused delivery of your plenum after hearing about all their problems, and now i have to worry about the cats? Whatever happened to quality control? It is a far better business practise, if you plan on being in business long term,
to make the buyer wait for a rigorously tested, high-quality product than to cut corners and release an inferior product,
which is what fly-by-night companies do.
It will take your company a long time to overcome all the bad press you've rec'd
lately.
So what do you have to say about the cat fitment problems?
Oh shift, now there are fitment problems with the cats??? I refused delivery of your plenum after hearing about all their problems, and now i have to worry about the cats? Whatever happened to quality control? It is a far better business practise, if you plan on being in business long term,
to make the buyer wait for a rigorously tested, high-quality product than to cut corners and release an inferior product,
which is what fly-by-night companies do.
It will take your company a long time to overcome all the bad press you've rec'd
lately.
So what do you have to say about the cat fitment problems?
07-14-2004, 10:01 AM
#42
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The first Kinetix product I purchased was the V4 plenum - but by accident, as I signed up for the recent Group Buy that was originally supposed to be for the V3 - I am extremely satisfied with the product - the sound and performance are great! I noticed an average of 0.2 sec. deduction in q-mile times with my G-tech post-Kinetix... I will be purchasing the Test-pipes with resonators from the new GB as soon as I know that there will be at least 10 people participating...
I think Kinetix has done as good of a job as expected from a company there size - even though there have been documented problems, people still have shown them support, and I think that's a good thing, because Kinetix has shown the ability to be creative and bring new and innovative products to the market at a reasonable price - their new aluminum manifold is the nicest piece I have seen yet, and I can't wait to upgrade when I decide to go F/I...
I also have no idea why people will constantly rag on a company like Kinetix (smaller, newer, less name recognition) for their lack of customer support and not get on a company like GReddy - whose TT kits have had fitment problems from the beginning... there is no way a TT should take over 50 hrs to install!!! Their exhaust will be the last product I purchase from them for fear of hearing what others have heard when they have attempted to contact them for support... just look in the F/I section for more info...
I think Kinetix has done as good of a job as expected from a company there size - even though there have been documented problems, people still have shown them support, and I think that's a good thing, because Kinetix has shown the ability to be creative and bring new and innovative products to the market at a reasonable price - their new aluminum manifold is the nicest piece I have seen yet, and I can't wait to upgrade when I decide to go F/I...
I also have no idea why people will constantly rag on a company like Kinetix (smaller, newer, less name recognition) for their lack of customer support and not get on a company like GReddy - whose TT kits have had fitment problems from the beginning... there is no way a TT should take over 50 hrs to install!!! Their exhaust will be the last product I purchase from them for fear of hearing what others have heard when they have attempted to contact them for support... just look in the F/I section for more info...
07-14-2004, 10:13 AM
#43
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Just got my v4 and have a quick question. In the front of the plenum there is a small dot(dent) where it looks like plastic missing. It that supposed to be there? Guess I could read the direction(might might not be there). Also will it hurt to use sand paper and smooth everything out a little?
07-14-2004, 10:24 AM
#44
Originally posted by wren57
Anyway, Kinetix DID ship me out a v4; got it today. They have also offered, at my request, to give me a $150 store credit for the towing bill. They also credited me $50 for good faith.
Anyway, Kinetix DID ship me out a v4; got it today. They have also offered, at my request, to give me a $150 store credit for the towing bill. They also credited me $50 for good faith.
Originally posted by lsdunique
In all honesty we got caught up in the growing demand for the product before we released it and released it too early.
In all honesty we got caught up in the growing demand for the product before we released it and released it too early.
Good luck.
Last edited by hfm; 07-14-2004 at 10:50 AM.
07-14-2004, 10:26 AM
#45
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Okay, let me try to answer all the requests, if I missed one, let me know and I will try again!!
To the person who has a cracked plenum with no response, of course I will honor either a replacement, or accomodate you on a future aluminum plenum. Though the aluminum plenum is not like the Crawford piece at all, it is a new manifold with both upper and lower plenum replacement. Please email me at jamisonl@msn.com and we can discuss it.
The shrinkage was not from temperature alterations after the molding process, most plastic materials have a shrinkage factor when you process them, meaning when molded, they shrink, not while being used after. This was known and accounted for on the flange dimensions, but was missed on only a couple key spots on the interior walls, and I mean a couple small key spots. Though it was enough to cause much larger problems.
Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber. One of the major problems with the fiberglass is that it raises the viscosity of the plastic, meaning it does not flow nearly as well. This is a problem when molding because when it does not flow, it doesnt reach all the areas of the mold.
Cat fitment problems have been a smaller issue, and much less of an issue since we updated our JIGS about 2 months ago. This does not happen on most all of the cats that get sent out, but there have been problems brought to our attention. This has been due to heat warpage of the cats when welding. We have made changes to our welding process in terms of procedure, cooling, heating, etc to try for a more consistent product. The product is great, and has caused us few problems, but we are always working on ALL of our products to make them better.
We have made improvements to our suspension products since their release but we dont announce all the improvements we make because we are constantly working towards better products
To the person who has a cracked plenum with no response, of course I will honor either a replacement, or accomodate you on a future aluminum plenum. Though the aluminum plenum is not like the Crawford piece at all, it is a new manifold with both upper and lower plenum replacement. Please email me at jamisonl@msn.com and we can discuss it.
The shrinkage was not from temperature alterations after the molding process, most plastic materials have a shrinkage factor when you process them, meaning when molded, they shrink, not while being used after. This was known and accounted for on the flange dimensions, but was missed on only a couple key spots on the interior walls, and I mean a couple small key spots. Though it was enough to cause much larger problems.
Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber. One of the major problems with the fiberglass is that it raises the viscosity of the plastic, meaning it does not flow nearly as well. This is a problem when molding because when it does not flow, it doesnt reach all the areas of the mold.
Cat fitment problems have been a smaller issue, and much less of an issue since we updated our JIGS about 2 months ago. This does not happen on most all of the cats that get sent out, but there have been problems brought to our attention. This has been due to heat warpage of the cats when welding. We have made changes to our welding process in terms of procedure, cooling, heating, etc to try for a more consistent product. The product is great, and has caused us few problems, but we are always working on ALL of our products to make them better.
We have made improvements to our suspension products since their release but we dont announce all the improvements we make because we are constantly working towards better products
07-14-2004, 11:13 AM
#46
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Originally posted by lsdunique
As a small company, email was simply an easier way to communicate, but I also understand it is not everyones preferred method, and we are trying to improve.
As a small company, email was simply an easier way to communicate, but I also understand it is not everyones preferred method, and we are trying to improve.
Problem is I rarely get I reply to the mails I send Kinetix.
07-14-2004, 11:41 AM
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Hi lsdunique ,
Can you please comment on the flexing of v4 plenum? I'm not sure if you have seen the video of it in action, but basically it seem like the top will flex outwards when revving the engine.
Will repeated flexing create enough stress to eventually crack it?
also, will the v4s be able to cope with extremes in temperatures, such as really cold winter days (-30C)?
thanks!
Can you please comment on the flexing of v4 plenum? I'm not sure if you have seen the video of it in action, but basically it seem like the top will flex outwards when revving the engine.
Will repeated flexing create enough stress to eventually crack it?
also, will the v4s be able to cope with extremes in temperatures, such as really cold winter days (-30C)?
thanks!
07-14-2004, 11:52 AM
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I have read ALL the threads on the Kinetix & Crawford Z plenums, so here is my .02. First off, Kinetix is doing one helluva job trying to maintain a good rapport with their clients! I know nothing about engines but from all the info i've been able to gather, both plenums are putting out ROUGHLY the same stats. So now I have to look at it in the form of $$$$ and pro's & cons. I want a plenum bad, but if I can save $400 by going with Kinetix then I can afford to wait for them to get their design correct. GET IT TOGETHER KINETIX, IF YOU DONT, I AS WELL AS OTHER Z OWNERS WILL ALSO GO TO CRAWFORD FOR OUR PLENUMS!! Many Z owners could not wait to get the plenum mod when it came out, and since Crawford was the only one thats where they went. But many of us are giving you the benefit of the doubt so dont disappoint us. There is lots of positive feedback from their cat owners (so I'm in on the current cat GB from them). But anyway this is MY, I repeat, MY pro's & cons list.
Crawford Z pro's:
1. reliable (from v1 to v5) EXCELLENT!!
2. solid performance
Crawford Z cons:
1. not usable with stock parts (i.e. SB & cover)
2. over heating (or generates too much heat)
3. overall cost too expensive ($600 plenum + $180-$200 SB = $780-$800)
Kinetix pro's:
1. use with all stock parts (that's $$ you get to save or put towards other mods)
2. good performance
3. no over heating issues
4. PRICE (no core charge)
Kinetix cons:
1. unreliable (too many revisions w/same cracking issue) BIG PROBLEM!!!
2. fitment (holes lining up properly)
I'm quite sure I've left out some things, so if you want to add or take away from the list then feel free. But please dont bash!!
Crawford Z pro's:
1. reliable (from v1 to v5) EXCELLENT!!
2. solid performance
Crawford Z cons:
1. not usable with stock parts (i.e. SB & cover)
2. over heating (or generates too much heat)
3. overall cost too expensive ($600 plenum + $180-$200 SB = $780-$800)
Kinetix pro's:
1. use with all stock parts (that's $$ you get to save or put towards other mods)
2. good performance
3. no over heating issues
4. PRICE (no core charge)
Kinetix cons:
1. unreliable (too many revisions w/same cracking issue) BIG PROBLEM!!!
2. fitment (holes lining up properly)
I'm quite sure I've left out some things, so if you want to add or take away from the list then feel free. But please dont bash!!
07-14-2004, 11:59 AM
#49
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My version 2 cracked and I emailed today... Just makin sure I get a quick response. Anyways, what's the ETA on the Alluminum manifold, and how much is it going to cost (give or take $100). Thanks.
07-14-2004, 12:13 PM
#50
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I think it would be safe to say give or take it would be $700, but I will make no promises as to its release, because if we cant get it to maek power, then we wont release it as simply eye candy (no matter how nice the candy is)
Yes the plenum flexes a bit, and the flex is within the plastics limits. Plastic parts that are subjected to flex can retain their original properties for a lifetime, as long as they are not stretched to their limit.
Thats too bad about the no response from emails. The thing I dont understand about emails (I have gotten similar responses from others) is that I personally answer the jamisonl@msn.com address and I answer it very often, with careful attention to what is spam and what is not.
Never do I delete a question or request without responding, but sometimes either on my end or theirs, something does not get through. For this I apologize but I simply dont have a solution to that.
I will check into an actual temperature at which the plastic's properties begin to come down.
Yes the plenum flexes a bit, and the flex is within the plastics limits. Plastic parts that are subjected to flex can retain their original properties for a lifetime, as long as they are not stretched to their limit.
Thats too bad about the no response from emails. The thing I dont understand about emails (I have gotten similar responses from others) is that I personally answer the jamisonl@msn.com address and I answer it very often, with careful attention to what is spam and what is not.
Never do I delete a question or request without responding, but sometimes either on my end or theirs, something does not get through. For this I apologize but I simply dont have a solution to that.
I will check into an actual temperature at which the plastic's properties begin to come down.
07-14-2004, 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by lsdunique
Thats too bad about the no response from emails. The thing I dont understand about emails (I have gotten similar responses from others) is that I personally answer the jamisonl@msn.com address and I answer it very often, with careful attention to what is spam and what is not.
Thats too bad about the no response from emails. The thing I dont understand about emails (I have gotten similar responses from others) is that I personally answer the jamisonl@msn.com address and I answer it very often, with careful attention to what is spam and what is not.
All I can say is that I mailed that address on the 09/07/04 and on the 13/07/04 with no response.
I too run a business in the UK and find that a bit of PR will pacify most of my customers.
07-14-2004, 01:03 PM
#53
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Steve
In case you did not receive my previous email, I remember responding that your plenum was sent out I believe last week, but it was sent USPS express.
In case you did not receive my previous email, I remember responding that your plenum was sent out I believe last week, but it was sent USPS express.
07-14-2004, 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by lsdunique
Steve
In case you did not receive my previous email, I remember responding that your plenum was sent out I believe last week, but it was sent USPS express.
Steve
In case you did not receive my previous email, I remember responding that your plenum was sent out I believe last week, but it was sent USPS express.
If you have replied to any of my mail after that then no I have not received them.
I know all to well, as will most people that run a business about stumbling blocks. I can however see that you and your work colleagues are trying your utmost to remedy teething problems and to create a worthwhile product. The worst thing you can do is give up.(which obviousley you are not doing)
The best thing you can do is to keep potential customers, and existing customers up to speed with where you are at, and where you are going.
This thread will hopefully prove to people that you are in for the long haul no matter what it takes.
Just need to brush up on the communications side of things.
My 2 bob's worth.
07-14-2004, 02:23 PM
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Temperature
Originally posted by fluffydot
also, will the v4s be able to cope with extremes in temperatures, such as really cold winter days (-30C)?
also, will the v4s be able to cope with extremes in temperatures, such as really cold winter days (-30C)?
I am not saying this is good or bad.... just an observation.
-Chris
07-14-2004, 02:40 PM
#56
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So are you trying to say for the Aluminum version, it will be a total cost of about $700 or that will be the price difference from the V3 Plastic one that I have now? I don't know how I feel about this.
I guess i'll wait for that answer when it's released since you don't know if it's just going to be eye candy or an actual working piece. I'm sure it will be worth the wait though, i'm a patient kinda guy..... sometimes, lol.
Also can you comment on the red glue substance that you guys use? I remember reading where some members had a hard time taking off the V2 or V3 to replace it with the V3 or V4.
What's the best way to get the center screws out without stripping them or damaging the rest of the motor and it's surrounding areas.
Do you guys have any suggestions of which materials to use to help loosen them to upgrade the plenum or for those who wish to go back to stock??
I love the sound, performance, and the look of your plenum, and yeah few problems have arose across the forums w/ members, but I still support you guys. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!
I'll e-mail you soon about replacing the plenum, but should I do that now or wait a little for more info about the aluminum version?? Please let me know what you want me to do.. Thanks.
I guess i'll wait for that answer when it's released since you don't know if it's just going to be eye candy or an actual working piece. I'm sure it will be worth the wait though, i'm a patient kinda guy..... sometimes, lol.
Also can you comment on the red glue substance that you guys use? I remember reading where some members had a hard time taking off the V2 or V3 to replace it with the V3 or V4.
What's the best way to get the center screws out without stripping them or damaging the rest of the motor and it's surrounding areas.
Do you guys have any suggestions of which materials to use to help loosen them to upgrade the plenum or for those who wish to go back to stock??
I love the sound, performance, and the look of your plenum, and yeah few problems have arose across the forums w/ members, but I still support you guys. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!
I'll e-mail you soon about replacing the plenum, but should I do that now or wait a little for more info about the aluminum version?? Please let me know what you want me to do.. Thanks.
07-14-2004, 02:55 PM
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Also can you comment on the red glue substance that you guys use? I remember reading where some members had a hard time taking off the V2 or V3 to replace it with the V3 or V4.
What's the best way to get the center screws out without stripping them or damaging the rest of the motor and it's surrounding areas.
What's the best way to get the center screws out without stripping them or damaging the rest of the motor and it's surrounding areas.
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=82586
07-14-2004, 03:06 PM
#58
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I will have to continue checking on the running temps of our own plenum on our car, we did testing and did not notice differences, but it is possilbe.
We will re check our plenum this week in terms of operating temperature.
The new aluminum manifold (I shouldnt even be discussing price) will be in the $700 range as a retail price, not an upgraded price. Also note that its real intention is for FI, but we changed the original design to try and pull some gains with NA, as to enlarge our market, because we had a lot of demand for the manifold. The manifold will still look almost the same, but runner and plenum sizes have changed slightly.
As for a previous post regarding holes lining up, this is another procedure we have added to our process and a change made to the newest version. We ditched the metal inserts for a couple reasons, first being that the compressive strength of this new plastic is far greater, by about 50%. This allows for much greater torque loads. Secondly, the metal inserts were causing others problems because they use a coarse thread that often installed with a slight angle, pulling holes out of alignment.
We now physically test each plenum by installing it on a factory Nissan lower plenum for alignment. This also allows us to check for any of those interior walls making contact. We think this step alone has given us much greater control on the plenum's fitment.
There should not be any future cases regarding holes not lining up perfectly.
We will re check our plenum this week in terms of operating temperature.
The new aluminum manifold (I shouldnt even be discussing price) will be in the $700 range as a retail price, not an upgraded price. Also note that its real intention is for FI, but we changed the original design to try and pull some gains with NA, as to enlarge our market, because we had a lot of demand for the manifold. The manifold will still look almost the same, but runner and plenum sizes have changed slightly.
As for a previous post regarding holes lining up, this is another procedure we have added to our process and a change made to the newest version. We ditched the metal inserts for a couple reasons, first being that the compressive strength of this new plastic is far greater, by about 50%. This allows for much greater torque loads. Secondly, the metal inserts were causing others problems because they use a coarse thread that often installed with a slight angle, pulling holes out of alignment.
We now physically test each plenum by installing it on a factory Nissan lower plenum for alignment. This also allows us to check for any of those interior walls making contact. We think this step alone has given us much greater control on the plenum's fitment.
There should not be any future cases regarding holes not lining up perfectly.
07-14-2004, 03:46 PM
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Brimestone
Just for the record - The Crawford plenum is $395.00 (with core return) and the strut bar is $175.00. Total therefore is $570.00 (not $800.00) for items that work. One of my daily duties, is NOT opening my hood looking for cracks.
Lou
Just for the record - The Crawford plenum is $395.00 (with core return) and the strut bar is $175.00. Total therefore is $570.00 (not $800.00) for items that work. One of my daily duties, is NOT opening my hood looking for cracks.
Lou
07-14-2004, 03:53 PM
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I also like to thank lsdunique for sarting this thread. They are taking the time to give back to the community wheater people want to vent or add some helpful comments.
Perhaps some of us should emphtize(sp). Imagine you guys as lsdunique. Its a hard job i a doubt he is really trying to stiff you guys. Mistakes occure espically with a upcoming business.
I love my cats, just worried about the fitment stressing out my flex in the ypipe.
About this new manifold which will be a full one upper and lower, what kinda gain are we looking at for the people who are intrested in going NA. Plus, how would it look like? I've been holding back on the manifold because i do not want to just replace the upper. I want a whole new one. I believe those yield bigger gains. Anyhow, let us know if you have more revealing news.
It also also come to my attention by starting this thread it has also seem as if lsdunique was a convicted felon and we are interegating him! LoL
PS: sorry for my spelling, its horrid. I dont take the time to spell check
Perhaps some of us should emphtize(sp). Imagine you guys as lsdunique. Its a hard job i a doubt he is really trying to stiff you guys. Mistakes occure espically with a upcoming business.
I love my cats, just worried about the fitment stressing out my flex in the ypipe.
About this new manifold which will be a full one upper and lower, what kinda gain are we looking at for the people who are intrested in going NA. Plus, how would it look like? I've been holding back on the manifold because i do not want to just replace the upper. I want a whole new one. I believe those yield bigger gains. Anyhow, let us know if you have more revealing news.
It also also come to my attention by starting this thread it has also seem as if lsdunique was a convicted felon and we are interegating him! LoL
PS: sorry for my spelling, its horrid. I dont take the time to spell check