Tire FEATHERING: FYI
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 162
Likes: 1
From: Clearwater, Florida
Originally posted by navybulldog68
I appreciate your anger sir, but you are wrong about only the toe being adjustable. everything is adjustable but the camber. thrust angle is also important. If you never take your car to an outside shop and only depend on the Nissan dealer you will never know what you have unless Nissan lets you stand there and watch. you dont have to go to firestone. go to a race shop like the other guy said. if i hadnt gone to firestone id be cruising around right now with 98% of my adjustments out of range as my dealer was supposed to have done an alignment and didnt. you have to find out where your car is at. but thats up to you and mine is just a suggestion sir. plese dont be rude to me again or you will regret it.
I appreciate your anger sir, but you are wrong about only the toe being adjustable. everything is adjustable but the camber. thrust angle is also important. If you never take your car to an outside shop and only depend on the Nissan dealer you will never know what you have unless Nissan lets you stand there and watch. you dont have to go to firestone. go to a race shop like the other guy said. if i hadnt gone to firestone id be cruising around right now with 98% of my adjustments out of range as my dealer was supposed to have done an alignment and didnt. you have to find out where your car is at. but thats up to you and mine is just a suggestion sir. plese dont be rude to me again or you will regret it.
FSU-6
FRONT SUSPENSION ASSEMBLY
PRELIMINARY INSPECTION
1. Check tires for improper air pressure and wear.
2. Check road wheels for runout.
3. Check wheel bearing axial end play.
4. Check ball joint axial end play of compression rod, upper link, and steering knuckle
5. Check shock absorber operation.
6. Check each mounting point of axle and suspension for looseness and deformation.
7. Check each link, rod, and member for cracks, deformation and other damage.
8. Check vehicle posture.
INSPECTION OF CAMBER, CASTER AND KINGPIN INCLINATION ANGLES.
_ Camber, caster, kingpin inclination angles cannot be adjusted.
My interpretation of this is that only the toe is adjustable in the front. Also from the FM:
RSU-6
REAR SUSPENSION ASSEMBLY
If outside the standard value, adjust with adjusting bolt in front lower
link.
CAUTION:
After adjusting camber, be sure to check toe-in.
TOE-IN
Measure toe-in using following procedure. If out of specification, inspect and replace any damaged or worn
rear suspension parts.
WARNING:
_ Always perform following procedure on a flat surface.
_ Make sure that no person is in front of vehicle before pushing
it.
1. Bounce rear of vehicle up and down to stabilize the posture.
2. Push vehicle straight ahead about 5 m (16 ft).
3. Put a mark on base line of the tread (rear side) of both tires at
the same height of hub center. These are measuring point.
4. Measure distance “A” (rear side).
5. Push vehicle slowly ahead to rotate wheels 180 degrees (1/2
turn).
If wheels have rotated more than 180 degrees (1/2 turn), try the
above procedure again from the beginning. Never push vehicle
backward.
6. Measure distance “B” (front side).
7. If outside the standard value, adjust with adjusting bolt in rear
lower link.
CAUTION:
Be sure to adjust equally on RH and LH side with adjusting
bolt.
SEIA0227E
Obviously both the camber and the toe are adjustable on the rear but since most of us are having the problem on the front that will not be terribly helpful. You may now elaborate on how exactly I will "regret it if I am rude to you again" if you wish. I have no immediate plans to be rude to anyone but just in case a little rudeness inadvertantly slips out I'd like to know what to expect. Are we talking physical violence? Reporting me to the moderator? Litigation? Assualting me with some really nasty emoticons? In any case I'll just shut up now since I appear to be offending others on the forum and that is not my desire. Good luck with yours.
Last edited by overZealous; Feb 5, 2004 at 10:15 AM.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 0
Originally posted by overZealous
I apologize for my rudenesss navybulldog68. My anger was directed at Nissan, not you. In any case, the point that I was trying to make is that one doesn't (shouldn't) need to go to Firestone, a race shop or any other shop outside of Nissan to get accurate alignment numbers or to get this problem fixed. It is also my belief that this is not an alignment issue at all or at least not one that can be fixed by adjusting the alignment. It is entirely understandable that your rear numbers may or may not be out of spec. I do not believe that the suspension TSB's instruct Dealers to do anything with the rear settings. If your rear settings are (were) out and your rear tires were not feathering what does that tell you? I've had mine done at several Nissan dealers and the results are fairly consistent. Regarding the adjustability of the suspension, from the FM:
FSU-6
FRONT SUSPENSION ASSEMBLY
PRELIMINARY INSPECTION
1. Check tires for improper air pressure and wear.
2. Check road wheels for runout.
3. Check wheel bearing axial end play.
4. Check ball joint axial end play of compression rod, upper link, and steering knuckle
5. Check shock absorber operation.
6. Check each mounting point of axle and suspension for looseness and deformation.
7. Check each link, rod, and member for cracks, deformation and other damage.
8. Check vehicle posture.
INSPECTION OF CAMBER, CASTER AND KINGPIN INCLINATION ANGLES.
_ Camber, caster, kingpin inclination angles cannot be adjusted.
My interpretation of this is that only the toe is adjustable in the front. Also from the FM:
RSU-6
REAR SUSPENSION ASSEMBLY
If outside the standard value, adjust with adjusting bolt in front lower
link.
CAUTION:
After adjusting camber, be sure to check toe-in.
TOE-IN
Measure toe-in using following procedure. If out of specification, inspect and replace any damaged or worn
rear suspension parts.
WARNING:
_ Always perform following procedure on a flat surface.
_ Make sure that no person is in front of vehicle before pushing
it.
1. Bounce rear of vehicle up and down to stabilize the posture.
2. Push vehicle straight ahead about 5 m (16 ft).
3. Put a mark on base line of the tread (rear side) of both tires at
the same height of hub center. These are measuring point.
4. Measure distance “A” (rear side).
5. Push vehicle slowly ahead to rotate wheels 180 degrees (1/2
turn).
If wheels have rotated more than 180 degrees (1/2 turn), try the
above procedure again from the beginning. Never push vehicle
backward.
6. Measure distance “B” (front side).
7. If outside the standard value, adjust with adjusting bolt in rear
lower link.
CAUTION:
Be sure to adjust equally on RH and LH side with adjusting
bolt.
SEIA0227E
Obviously both the camber and the toe are adjustable on the rear but since most of us are having the problem on the front that will not be terribly helpful. You may now elaborate on how exactly I will "regret it if I am rude to you again" if you wish. I have no immediate plans to be rude to anyone but just in case a little rudeness inadvertantly slips out I'd like to know what to expect. Are we talking physical violence? Reporting me to the moderator? Litigation? Assualting me with some really nasty emoticons? In any case I'll just shut up now since I appear to be offending others on the forum and that is not my desire. Good luck with yours.
I apologize for my rudenesss navybulldog68. My anger was directed at Nissan, not you. In any case, the point that I was trying to make is that one doesn't (shouldn't) need to go to Firestone, a race shop or any other shop outside of Nissan to get accurate alignment numbers or to get this problem fixed. It is also my belief that this is not an alignment issue at all or at least not one that can be fixed by adjusting the alignment. It is entirely understandable that your rear numbers may or may not be out of spec. I do not believe that the suspension TSB's instruct Dealers to do anything with the rear settings. If your rear settings are (were) out and your rear tires were not feathering what does that tell you? I've had mine done at several Nissan dealers and the results are fairly consistent. Regarding the adjustability of the suspension, from the FM:
FSU-6
FRONT SUSPENSION ASSEMBLY
PRELIMINARY INSPECTION
1. Check tires for improper air pressure and wear.
2. Check road wheels for runout.
3. Check wheel bearing axial end play.
4. Check ball joint axial end play of compression rod, upper link, and steering knuckle
5. Check shock absorber operation.
6. Check each mounting point of axle and suspension for looseness and deformation.
7. Check each link, rod, and member for cracks, deformation and other damage.
8. Check vehicle posture.
INSPECTION OF CAMBER, CASTER AND KINGPIN INCLINATION ANGLES.
_ Camber, caster, kingpin inclination angles cannot be adjusted.
My interpretation of this is that only the toe is adjustable in the front. Also from the FM:
RSU-6
REAR SUSPENSION ASSEMBLY
If outside the standard value, adjust with adjusting bolt in front lower
link.
CAUTION:
After adjusting camber, be sure to check toe-in.
TOE-IN
Measure toe-in using following procedure. If out of specification, inspect and replace any damaged or worn
rear suspension parts.
WARNING:
_ Always perform following procedure on a flat surface.
_ Make sure that no person is in front of vehicle before pushing
it.
1. Bounce rear of vehicle up and down to stabilize the posture.
2. Push vehicle straight ahead about 5 m (16 ft).
3. Put a mark on base line of the tread (rear side) of both tires at
the same height of hub center. These are measuring point.
4. Measure distance “A” (rear side).
5. Push vehicle slowly ahead to rotate wheels 180 degrees (1/2
turn).
If wheels have rotated more than 180 degrees (1/2 turn), try the
above procedure again from the beginning. Never push vehicle
backward.
6. Measure distance “B” (front side).
7. If outside the standard value, adjust with adjusting bolt in rear
lower link.
CAUTION:
Be sure to adjust equally on RH and LH side with adjusting
bolt.
SEIA0227E
Obviously both the camber and the toe are adjustable on the rear but since most of us are having the problem on the front that will not be terribly helpful. You may now elaborate on how exactly I will "regret it if I am rude to you again" if you wish. I have no immediate plans to be rude to anyone but just in case a little rudeness inadvertantly slips out I'd like to know what to expect. Are we talking physical violence? Reporting me to the moderator? Litigation? Assualting me with some really nasty emoticons? In any case I'll just shut up now since I appear to be offending others on the forum and that is not my desire. Good luck with yours.
That is why many good dealers have sent owners to outside shops. Go to a specialist shop, or get your dealer to pay for one, if you can. Even if you have to pay for it yourself, $75 to 80 is worth it for peace of mind and may be a solution for your problem.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: california
Originally posted by bkusnir
Here is my 12/17/03 alignment printout ... which is the only one the dealership faxed to me, even though I brought the vehicle in twice after that to be re-aligned because of a crooked steering wheel. They claim that the vehicle was only aligned once, and that it was not aligned the second and third time I brought it in because the alignment was within specification. They also claim that my off-center steering wheel is within the 'acceptable limit' ... it's not accetable to me. BTW - getting them to fax this information to me was like pulling teeth, I had to ask three times before I actually received anything.
Here is my alignment sheet, can someone look at this and tell me if I am OK here?
http://www.nissanzcars.com/download/350Z/121703.gif
Here is my 12/17/03 alignment printout ... which is the only one the dealership faxed to me, even though I brought the vehicle in twice after that to be re-aligned because of a crooked steering wheel. They claim that the vehicle was only aligned once, and that it was not aligned the second and third time I brought it in because the alignment was within specification. They also claim that my off-center steering wheel is within the 'acceptable limit' ... it's not accetable to me. BTW - getting them to fax this information to me was like pulling teeth, I had to ask three times before I actually received anything.
Here is my alignment sheet, can someone look at this and tell me if I am OK here?
http://www.nissanzcars.com/download/350Z/121703.gif
Left front: Actual -0.08 deg, before -0.02 deg
Right front: Actual 0.07 deg, before 0.22
This is real interesting, because the "before" -.02 L +0.22 R was the setting the dealer performed at ~9k miles. Car has not been kerbed or potholed since, so either they didn't do it right first time, or it has somehow drifted of its own accord.
the one bright note is that I got a new set of front tires out of Nissan, with no argument, even over 1 year and at nearly 18k. Basically all I did was call them up and say "I want new tires" and they said "OK". The dealer put in the warranty claim and they were fitted the next day. I was pretty amazed.
I am fully expecting these ones to be the same in a few k though.
Last edited by waldf; Feb 6, 2004 at 08:09 AM.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 0
buknsir
Your left front looks like its toeing out at -0.9, your right front isn't, but the TSB NTB03-006b calls for the wheels NOT to be toeing out, the language is "avoid toeout" completely, or words to that effect. It is within the acceptable range, but not in synch with the TSB. If your tire is not wearing on the inside yet, it may do it later, but mine are set at 0.0, close to yours.
I really am not comfortable trying to give you definitive answers, you need to go to an alignment specialist, as I am. At 0.0 on my left front, he said it might be wearing slightly on the outside. My OE tires were beginning to wear slightly on the outside, not inside, at 1600 miles which indicates mine were toeing in, not out, excessively at the start. I have only read about one other owner, at the beginning of first cupping/feathering, whose tires were wearing on the outside edge to start with like mine.
It is beyond my experience to have wear like this on any car I have owned, so baby steps are all I'm taking right now. I'm putting on new shocks when they come out and will have my alignment done again after they are on. My tech doesn't think I have much of a problem, if any, now or even in a couple of months. The shocks should be out in March or April.
I really am not comfortable trying to give you definitive answers, you need to go to an alignment specialist, as I am. At 0.0 on my left front, he said it might be wearing slightly on the outside. My OE tires were beginning to wear slightly on the outside, not inside, at 1600 miles which indicates mine were toeing in, not out, excessively at the start. I have only read about one other owner, at the beginning of first cupping/feathering, whose tires were wearing on the outside edge to start with like mine.
It is beyond my experience to have wear like this on any car I have owned, so baby steps are all I'm taking right now. I'm putting on new shocks when they come out and will have my alignment done again after they are on. My tech doesn't think I have much of a problem, if any, now or even in a couple of months. The shocks should be out in March or April.
Hi Boomer - Just got word of Koni delivery
Originally posted by Boomer
Your left front looks like its toeing out at -0.9, your right front isn't, but the TSB NTB03-006b calls for the wheels NOT to be toeing out, the language is "avoid toeout" completely, or words to that effect. It is within the acceptable range, but not in synch with the TSB. If your tire is not wearing on the inside yet, it may do it later, but mine are set at 0.0, close to yours.
I really am not comfortable trying to give you definitive answers, you need to go to an alignment specialist, as I am. At 0.0 on my left front, he said it might be wearing slightly on the outside. My OE tires were beginning to wear slightly on the outside, not inside, at 1600 miles which indicates mine were toeing in, not out, excessively at the start. I have only read about one other owner, at the beginning of first cupping/feathering, whose tires were wearing on the outside edge to start with like mine.
It is beyond my experience to have wear like this on any car I have owned, so baby steps are all I'm taking right now. I'm putting on new shocks when they come out and will have my alignment done again after they are on. My tech doesn't think I have much of a problem, if any, now or even in a couple of months. The shocks should be out in March or April.
Your left front looks like its toeing out at -0.9, your right front isn't, but the TSB NTB03-006b calls for the wheels NOT to be toeing out, the language is "avoid toeout" completely, or words to that effect. It is within the acceptable range, but not in synch with the TSB. If your tire is not wearing on the inside yet, it may do it later, but mine are set at 0.0, close to yours.
I really am not comfortable trying to give you definitive answers, you need to go to an alignment specialist, as I am. At 0.0 on my left front, he said it might be wearing slightly on the outside. My OE tires were beginning to wear slightly on the outside, not inside, at 1600 miles which indicates mine were toeing in, not out, excessively at the start. I have only read about one other owner, at the beginning of first cupping/feathering, whose tires were wearing on the outside edge to start with like mine.
It is beyond my experience to have wear like this on any car I have owned, so baby steps are all I'm taking right now. I'm putting on new shocks when they come out and will have my alignment done again after they are on. My tech doesn't think I have much of a problem, if any, now or even in a couple of months. The shocks should be out in March or April.
I just got info today of Koni Adjustables - of 50 sets to come from Holland plant. My friend Eric Hu ( works at Toyota - sic ) was able to get 5 sets.
Tokico bombed out... they are the OEM
Koni has the problem nailed and they are Lifetime Waranted.
Eric and I will be the Test Pigs - Both are 5AT's
The other 3 sets will go to the high bidder... So Cal pick up only as per agreement with Primary importer.. Who gets 50 pair total.
O.K. Boomer if this does not solve the problem, then I'll sell my CS touring to prove it. Check out the other link about the problem..
I put in a senerio of what might have happened...
Cheers Amy
- Here is the other link
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....272#post658272
Last edited by AmyCroft; Feb 5, 2004 at 10:56 PM.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 0
Re: Hi Boomer - Just got word of Koni delivery
Originally posted by AmyCroft
Hello Boomer and how are you...?
I just got info today of Koni Adjustables - of 50 sets to come from Holland plant. My friend Eric Hu ( works at Toyota - sic ) was able to get 5 sets.
Tokico bombed out... they are the OEM
Koni has the problem nailed and they are Lifetime Waranted.
Eric and I will be the Test Pigs - Both are 5AT's
The other 3 sets will go to the high bidder... So Cal pick up only as per agreement with Primary importer.. Who gets 50 pair total.
O.K. Boomer if this does not solve the problem, then I'll sell my CS touring to prove it. Check out the other link about the problem..
I put in a senerio of what might have happened...
Cheers Amy -
Hello Boomer and how are you...?
I just got info today of Koni Adjustables - of 50 sets to come from Holland plant. My friend Eric Hu ( works at Toyota - sic ) was able to get 5 sets.
Tokico bombed out... they are the OEM
Koni has the problem nailed and they are Lifetime Waranted.
Eric and I will be the Test Pigs - Both are 5AT's
The other 3 sets will go to the high bidder... So Cal pick up only as per agreement with Primary importer.. Who gets 50 pair total.
O.K. Boomer if this does not solve the problem, then I'll sell my CS touring to prove it. Check out the other link about the problem..
I put in a senerio of what might have happened...
Cheers Amy
-
You have a good night, Luv. Thanks for the news, they are moving, about time. They'll be right, I can almost taste it. Ha
Originally posted by BlueDragonZ
Ok, let's not get at each other's throat people, we need to get at NISSAN!!!!. They are suppose to have a car show/conference here in Nashville over the summer, I say we all show up and throw our old tires at 'em.
Ok, let's not get at each other's throat people, we need to get at NISSAN!!!!. They are suppose to have a car show/conference here in Nashville over the summer, I say we all show up and throw our old tires at 'em.
If we could just get a when and were, we could probably do some type of show and get some sort of response. This could be an opportunity!!!!
My source says the NNA fix is in final approval stages and it will be beyond our expections. Hope he is right. This only applys to the feathering issue unless the crappy OEM shocks are the culprit for the feathering too. BJ I hope some of these Koni sets are coming to you/preorder folks.
Last edited by jmark; Feb 6, 2004 at 01:35 PM.
I'm glad there seems to be a few avenues of hope, whether it be koni's or a fix by NNA. I'm holding out for either of these two alternatives to become a reality before I waste my time at the dealership getting bandaid (luckily I have 4000 miles to go before I hit 12,000 mile on the odometer). My tires are progressively getting noisier and noisier, and the feathering/sawtooth wear is getting rather severe on both inside and outside shoulders blocks. I can now easily see the darkended spots on block edges due to the lack of pavement contact.
If I keep driving this car as-is, by December 2004, I should have a set of 'winter-ready' RE040's. That sawtooth profile aught to bite into snow pretty well! :-)
If I keep driving this car as-is, by December 2004, I should have a set of 'winter-ready' RE040's. That sawtooth profile aught to bite into snow pretty well! :-)
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Grass Lake, Michigan
Originally posted by jmark
My source says the NNA fix is in final approval stages and it will beyond our expections. Hope he is right. This only applys to the feathering issue unless the crappy OEM shocks are the culprit for the feathering too. BJ I hope some of these Koni sets are coming to you/preorder folks.
My source says the NNA fix is in final approval stages and it will beyond our expections. Hope he is right. This only applys to the feathering issue unless the crappy OEM shocks are the culprit for the feathering too. BJ I hope some of these Koni sets are coming to you/preorder folks.
How solid is this? I ask because I had an in with an engineer from NNA and he has become a dead end. Beter discription, a stone wall.
Any further details??
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 766
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From: Northern Virginia
Originally posted by jmark
My source says the NNA fix is in final approval stages and it will beyond our expections. Hope he is right. This only applys to the feathering issue unless the crappy OEM shocks are the culprit for the feathering too. ...
My source says the NNA fix is in final approval stages and it will beyond our expections. Hope he is right. This only applys to the feathering issue unless the crappy OEM shocks are the culprit for the feathering too. ...
Originally posted by TCL
Mark, excellent news if true. Any idea on estimated time frames? I'm holding off making any suspension changes until this issue is sorted out. Just trying to get an idea how long I have to hold off.
Mark, excellent news if true. Any idea on estimated time frames? I'm holding off making any suspension changes until this issue is sorted out. Just trying to get an idea how long I have to hold off.
Originally posted by jmark
No sorry that's all he said. He hasn't steered me wrong yet.
No sorry that's all he said. He hasn't steered me wrong yet.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: New London, Pennsylvania
Can somebody point me towards a website that can explain the suspension settings to all of us here?
Since I don't work with cars on a daily basis anymore, I need to brush-up on the terminology and its cause and effects if changing one setting to another.
In addition, I think it's not so much an issue of whether a Nissan dealer or a Firestone, etal. independent shop does the work, it's a matter of the technician's abilities.
On the other hand, there is also just reason to balk at having to shell out $ from our pockets to get the alignment done right in the first place.
PS: Any thoughts on the new Corvette or Mustang from anyone? Personally, from what I've seen in Autoweek, I'm glad I pre-ordered my Z 2 years ago.
Since I don't work with cars on a daily basis anymore, I need to brush-up on the terminology and its cause and effects if changing one setting to another.
In addition, I think it's not so much an issue of whether a Nissan dealer or a Firestone, etal. independent shop does the work, it's a matter of the technician's abilities.
On the other hand, there is also just reason to balk at having to shell out $ from our pockets to get the alignment done right in the first place.
PS: Any thoughts on the new Corvette or Mustang from anyone? Personally, from what I've seen in Autoweek, I'm glad I pre-ordered my Z 2 years ago.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque,NM
Cheers Amy -
Dear Amy, thanks for making me smile. I was frustrated about trying to make my point that we all need to make 100% sure our alignment is right so NNA cant say we are stupid. I believe in my heart thats not the real problem, I, like you think its the shocks, springs, tires or some combination of same. You helped calm me down and made me smile. Thanks
- Dear Amy, thanks for making me smile. I was frustrated about trying to make my point that we all need to make 100% sure our alignment is right so NNA cant say we are stupid. I believe in my heart thats not the real problem, I, like you think its the shocks, springs, tires or some combination of same. You helped calm me down and made me smile. Thanks
tax time is here so what I have seen in over a year is that people who have changed there suspention to after market parts have eliminated the problem. I guess I'll be spending my tax returns on getting coil-overs and new tires all the way around.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 231
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From: norcal
jmark - is this information really true? if it is, do you know the timeframe until we can see these fixes?? i'm so tired of waiting for nissan to come out with a fix that i'm considering s-tune right now, but if the fix is slated to come out within a month, maybe i should wait.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 72
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From: Richmond VA
I would not hold your breath on the idea that a Fix is coming.
If NNA had a solution I think NNA would contact us owners with pending Lemon Law suits first.
I am not about to drop my case, I gave up on a fix a long time ago.
We love the car but hate the fact it needs tires every 3000 miles.
Good luck to everyone.
Mark
If NNA had a solution I think NNA would contact us owners with pending Lemon Law suits first.
I am not about to drop my case, I gave up on a fix a long time ago.
We love the car but hate the fact it needs tires every 3000 miles.
Good luck to everyone.
Mark
