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Tire FEATHERING: FYI

Old 04-17-2015, 08:53 AM
  #4121  
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Originally Posted by DaveJackson View Post
All great questions except that at 2k per year, the rubber in your tires will expire naturally long before your feathering becomes a significant issue if your alignment is reasonable to begin with. Do not let this stop you from buying a Z.
Dave, thanks for your gentle comment on what I now realize is probably less of a serious issue than I thought a few days ago, for exactly the reason that you and other less-gentle commenters have stated. During our period of ownership, a Z will never be even a daily driver, let alone a high-mile/yr daily driver.

That being said about FTW, however, because the one and only Z we have driven had snow tires still installed, I don't yet know for sure exactly how loud and bothersome the "roar" that accompanies the FTW can become in a Z. But if our recent test drive of an '06 G35 (as an optional vehicle that has more legroom than the Z) is any indication, "I think that we could live with it" (famous last words).

Literally 10 seconds after starting the G35 test drive in a residential area, while the vehicle was still moving quite slowly, literally the very first thing that I said to my wife and the seller about the vehicle was "boy, road noise is really loud in this car...............it's even worse than our Outlander with snow tires." After hearing my comment, my wife chimed right in with the same observation.

At the time of that test drive I did not fully undestand nor appreciate the Z (or maybe G) tire-wear/noise/driving-speed relationship; again, nor do I today. But looking back on that G test drive, I now realize that what I may very well have been hearing is the infamous "roar" that accompanies FTW, not "road noise". And because I did not realize at that time that G owners were also complaining about tire wear, I only checked tread depth on the outside of the front and back wheels, not the inside. I definitely will not make that mistake in the future on any used vehicle that we look at.

Since writing my last post I sat down and read this entire thread. Yes, retirement really does have its "privileges", but although doing that was educational, it was of the kind that children in northern climates get during their very first opportunity to learn how to properly shovel deep snow from the driveway.

And because I had so much fun reading this thread, I am now about halfway through the "Suspension 101.." thread in the Maintenance forum. Although that thread does not contain the human-tragedy melodrama of the first 3,500 or so of this thread's soon-to-be 4,120 "replies" to post #1, it is also very educational for anyone who already owns, or is considering the purchase of, a Z. I'm not sure if the very simple remaining questions I have about the tire-wear vs. suspension-configuration of the Z will be answered in that thread's remaining pages, but if they are not, I will probably ask them there. But before going "over there", I must say that this is Z greatest place in the world for all thingz Z! (Yeah, pathetic, but lively pathetic!)
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:49 AM
  #4122  
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I have it and have done nothing about it. It's not that bad. For me, the noise only exists between 20 and 40 km/hr. It vanishes after that. I'm thinking that mine might be exacerbated by my aftermarket rims that I never put hubcentric rings in!
Some people are more picky, though. In hindsight, you probably will start to notice it after as little as 2000 - 4000 miles. I remember noticing it creep in after my first winter with fresh winter tires.
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Old 04-18-2015, 11:24 AM
  #4123  
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Originally Posted by DaveJackson View Post
I have it and have done nothing about it. It's not that bad. For me, the noise only exists between 20 and 40 km/hr. It vanishes after that. I'm thinking that mine might be exacerbated by my aftermarket rims that I never put hubcentric rings in!
Some people are more picky, though. In hindsight, you probably will start to notice it after as little as 2000 - 4000 miles. I remember noticing it creep in after my first winter with fresh winter tires.
Thanks, Dave.

Two more questions for you.

1. Do your front tires have feathering tire wear (FTW) and the noise is caused by that, or does the noise happen even without noticeable FTW?

2. If you are indeed using non-directional tires, if at the point that you start to just barely notice the noise you swap the front tires from side to side, does the noise stop or lessen?

Thanks, Dave.
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:34 PM
  #4124  
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Originally Posted by Tony1M View Post
Thanks, Dave.

Two more questions for you.

1. Do your front tires have feathering tire wear (FTW) and the noise is caused by that, or does the noise happen even without noticeable FTW?

2. If you are indeed using non-directional tires, if at the point that you start to just barely notice the noise you swap the front tires from side to side, does the noise stop or lessen?

Thanks, Dave.
1.) Fronts get it on the inside surface. It's tough to see but you can feel it with your hand. There is no significant noise until the feathering/cupping sets in.
2.) I use directionals but I have swapped them over for fun at an autocross (and ran them backwards). The noise stays. I have also dismounted them and swapped them to the other side to equalize the feathering wear. The noise is very slightly less, which surprised me. I thought it would almost disappear.
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:08 PM
  #4125  
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Originally Posted by DaveJackson View Post
1.) Fronts get it on the inside surface. It's tough to see but you can feel it with your hand. There is no significant noise until the feathering/cupping sets in.
2.) I use directionals but I have swapped them over for fun at an autocross (and ran them backwards). The noise stays. I have also dismounted them and swapped them to the other side to equalize the feathering wear. The noise is very slightly less, which surprised me. I thought it would almost disappear.
Thank, Dave.

Good to know that the noise stays, regardless of swapping. I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense because the feathering is still present, now on the outside of the vehicle, and still rubbing the road.

A few thousand posts back somebody mentioned taking a file or something and literally filing down the high spots in the feathering. This supposedly could also be done by some kind of machine that "turned" the tire, presumably as a piece of wood is "turned" (machined) in a lathe.

Someone also commented that doing some spirited track driving after making the swap wore down the feathering quite nicely, albeit probably at the cost of a few thousand miles of remaining tire life.
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:41 PM
  #4126  
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The "spirited driving after swap" thing is bogus, for sure. I tracked the Hell out of mine at an airstrip AutoX that chewed tires like you wouldn't believe. Then, I essentially forgot the tires reversed for another month, or so. There was extreme new wear from that and if it did anything to noise at all, it was insignificant.
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Old 04-19-2015, 06:31 AM
  #4127  
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Originally Posted by DaveJackson View Post
The "spirited driving after swap" thing is bogus, for sure. I tracked the Hell out of mine at an airstrip AutoX that chewed tires like you wouldn't believe. Then, I essentially forgot the tires reversed for another month, or so. There was extreme new wear from that and if it did anything to noise at all, it was insignificant.
So, there goes one possible good excuse to drive a Z on the track, even for a practical reason! I was also thinking that as an alternative to the track, one might do some tight, but at-the-speed-limt, cornering on city streets to get the same "benefit" as well as a bit of excitement at the same time, but I guess this is "out", too........... at least as far as removing feathering goes.

Edit: While I'm typing, what have you found to be the longest-wearing tire for your Z? Thanks.

Last edited by Tony1M; 04-19-2015 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 04-19-2015, 08:02 AM
  #4128  
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It's a sports car with tire feathering issues. The last thing you want is a long wearing tire!
I am just finishing a set of BF Goodrich KDW Type-2's. I have some Yokohama AD08's for next. Gotta pay to play. Get the best performance tires you can afford.
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:02 AM
  #4129  
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Originally Posted by DaveJackson View Post
It's a sports car with tire feathering issues. The last thing you want is a long wearing tire!
I am just finishing a set of BF Goodrich KDW Type-2's. I have some Yokohama AD08's for next. Gotta pay to play. Get the best performance tires you can afford.
Even though thinking of a vehicle as a hobby rather than a necessary means of transport is a rather foreign concept to me, it is not when it comes to other grown-ups' expensive toys such as home theatre system, $3,000 bicycle, completely unnecessary house remodeling, etc., so I think I understand about paying to play. The thing I don't yet realize is exactly how much I am willing to pay for and maintain this particular vice, because one thing I am certain of is that the intial cost to acquire a Z and get it on the road will just be the, shall we say, "entry fee".

Now away from toys and back to tires. I assume that you are a very aggressive driver, so I can use your experience as an example. How many kms did you get out of the BFGs and approximately what % of tread will they still have when you discard them?

Why aren't you installing the same, but new, BFG tire back on the vehicle?

Thanks, Dave.
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Old 04-19-2015, 12:05 PM
  #4130  
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"Aggressive drivers" make me LoL because there is no comparison to track. I would say that a full track day shaves at least 10,000 km off of your tires. My number is useless to you because it's skewed by track days.
I think you should research UTQG ratings on TireRack.com to get a better idea. I believe you can expect something closer to 50,000km from a higher performance, sticky tire. Don't buy "R-compound" and don't ever, EVER drive it in any snow. They are so bad in snow that simply letting the clutch out (with no gas) will spin the wheels.
I was happy with the KDW's but I've heard they changed their recipe again since I bought them. I fluked into a set of AD08's for next to nothing, so that's the only reason I'm trying them.
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:07 PM
  #4131  
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Originally Posted by DaveJackson View Post
"Aggressive drivers" make me LoL because there is no comparison to track. I would say that a full track day shaves at least 10,000 km off of your tires. My number is useless to you because it's skewed by track days.
I think you should research UTQG ratings on TireRack.com to get a better idea. I believe you can expect something closer to 50,000km from a higher performance, sticky tire. Don't buy "R-compound" and don't ever, EVER drive it in any snow. They are so bad in snow that simply letting the clutch out (with no gas) will spin the wheels.
I was happy with the KDW's but I've heard they changed their recipe again since I bought them. I fluked into a set of AD08's for next to nothing, so that's the only reason I'm trying them.
Dave, thanks for your experienced words of wisdom, especially about the "R".

I only read few posts where owners got 50,000 km out of a tire on a 350Z. It's great to hear that it is indeed possible. I intend to get a non-directional tire and switch side to side each spring when I change the oil and filter. Again, that'll be an interval of probably no more than 2500 - 3000 km, so that should maximize tread life, whatever the tire.

I've been reading the wheels and tires forum where "what tire has the longest wearing tread" is a very popular question. The thing is that not only is there is no consensus on which tire has the greatest life, what someone thinks is the longest-lasting tire, another person will think has the shortest.

Thanks again, Dave.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:38 PM
  #4132  
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On the other hand - daily driver of 350Z, drag strip dozen times, bit of aggressive driving but mainly commuter and TOURING (distance driving) of one of the first 350Z's, got my in Aug of '02 and have experienced tire issues for first 4yrs or so years. Had Nissan dealership work on the issue replacing several sets of tires and rotations plus alignments etc. IMO part of the issue was the Bridgestone's race tires (summer). Besides the "feathering" I had couple of close calls and issues running summer tires. In Austin temps can drop from 80s to freezing in couple of hours. The summers tires gave the expected problems with cold weather - traction both accelerating and stoppings.

After dealer, Nissan and I got tried of each other (100k miles) - replaced Bridgestone's tires with "all weather" and non directional tires - Z rated of course. Have religiously rotated them and maintained alignment. Problem with feathering and roar has slowly vanished. Running Continentals since Feb 2014 with great highway behavior - quiet on smooth road but do get road noise when road warrants. Great stopping and tracks with road -great feel on wet roads. Highway speed for 70 plus percent of time. Rotate tires every three or four months.

Only issue now is preparing to "freshen" 350Z - suspension rebuild from bushing (Energy Suspension), struts, flush fluids, rotors/pads - maybe repaint (approaching 200k miles and a teenager).

There LIFE after tire roar
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