We have a court datein Virginia and are waiting to see if NNA wants to settle and buy the car back. I filed several months ago. I got tired of wating for the so called FIX. The car is a lemon period. I love it but cant afford tires every three months.
Mark

 

I've got to agree with perauto1. These cars have a problem and it isn't just soft tires. It is unfair for Boomer to make sweeping conclusions regarding other peoples situations. It is obvious from reading this thread that each car is different in its manifestation of the problem. In some cars the tires seem to wear more quickly than others. It is that fact that makes it so difficult for Nissan to pinpoint the problem.

I myself have had four Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires installed and an alignment with the latest specs done by a Nissan engineer at the "final repair" stage of my Lemon Law case. Guess what? Those tires are singing like Janet Jackson at a halftime show with only 5000 miles on them.

There is no doubt in my mind that I will win my case when we go to court in May.

Everyone needs to decide what the best course of action is for them. If your car is wearing tires at a rate that is acceptable to you consider yourself lucky and enjoy your car. If not, you have other options. It is up to you to decide which is best for you.

 

Sounds like you have a genuine lemon. My car handles great on the A/Ss, just like a sports car should. Your faulty alignment is probably why your car handles lousy. Sell it back to Nissan and good luck.

 

It will kill me to loose the car, but I also cannot afford $700 every 10,000 miles for a new set of tires. I put on about 2500 miles a month. I should not have to deal with this. I only pull in about $80k a year, and I am the sole provider for my family. Maybe Boomer has the cash to throw around ... I don't.

I will see what my options are. The tires still make noise, even after he swapped them and did the alignment. I'll see what Nissan wants to do next ... if nothing, then I guess I may have to demand that they buy the car back.

I could live with a Maxima though ... they are pretty nice cars. Maybe an even trade on a equivelant Maxima would suffice.

 

See my post to perauto1. Get rid of it, all models have lemons. No reason to keep it if its always out of kilter. My post was predicated on those cars, like mine, which have had a change. My change worked, if you have made all the changes and its still bad, lose it. If you can't find a dealer/shop that can fix your car, invoke the Lemon Law. Nissan can't ignore a Lemon Law, use it if you need to, there's no point in keeping a car thats never ok, but you may get your car properly fixed in the process.

At some point, any owner has to make a decision about keeping a new car with flaws, too many flaws are not worth keeping it, even if you love the car. Buy another Z later if you have to have one, make Nissan take back the cars that can't be fixed.

Make a decision, I did. The cupping isn't coming back on my car, the only issue I have is the bounce, I am adding premium shocks because I WANT TO, not because I have to. My choice, make yours, that is the point of my post.

Also, I can't make sweeping decisions for anyone, I am a member of this site, not your Mother or Father. I can't dictate to anyone, nor do I wish to dictate to anyone. IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY ADVICE, IGNORE IT!

 

DAMN! That's good advice!

 

Boomer,

I hope that I don't offend you but I have to ask a question. Why do you pay attention to this thread? If I truly believed that I had solved my feathering problem I can assure you that I wouldn't be watching this thread and certainly not posting to it. What gives? Why do you care?

 

I'm glad you like it. Now, if everyone in your position would s**t, or get off the pot, the resale on my 03 Touring wouldn't go down as much. That applies to all who pursue a buyback, wait and you may get pinched by the valuation at the time you do it.

Just being friendly.

 

Because I only have 6600 miles on my new tires, I'm not out of the woods yet. If I had 15,000 miles on it, I would never look at this thread again, but Nissan says next to nothing and has no information for me. Also, as an original Charter Member on this site, I feel some sort of strange responsibilty to assist other owners like we used to do. After this, my feelings are changing rapidly and I'll do pms to our core group when I need info. Thanks for asking.

 

Please read all this post before becoming excited. In all this talk about the Nissan tech doing an alignment at the final fix and dealers doing an "aligment: after changing tires please consider this. Actually let me say one thing more before you consider. Im not saying this is a fix or anything. It may have no effect in the scheme of Nissan's problem ok, so please dont lambast me im only throwing this in for consideration ok. Here goe's. When you get an alignment it must be a "four wheel" alignment. If these people are only aligning the front end that's only half the problem. In a car with independent four wheel suspension front effects rear and rear effects front. When I had my car 'Professionally aligned" every spec in the rear end was of at 11000 miles. Thers no way on earth that car was set right at the factory. Now that said, like i said before im not cliaming that is a fix, only food for thought. I got new front tires at 9200 miles and a "professional" alignment at 11200 miles and no signs of any new problems yet but it is still early in the game as i didnt detect the wear till about 7500 miles the first time. so this post is food for thought only and not a purported fix, ok guys and girls, your friend , BIG Al

 

Here's a brief summary of what is going on with the front tires on our cars, from my perspective. This is in no way a definitive guide to the tire problems, and is based on my own knowledge and experience. It looks like there are three different problems that people are experiencing with the front tires:

1)Excessive wear on inner part of tire

This is usually caused by too much negative camber, and sometimes incorrect caster settings. Unfortunately, the camber and caster are not adjustable on the front end of the 350z, so the only real fix is to install aftermarket parts allowing camber and caster adjustment.

The toe setting can also have some impact on the rate of this excessive wear, but the toe setting cannot be used to fix the root problem. In order to extend the life of the tires when you have this problem, you can swap tires on the rims so the insides go to the outside and vice versa. This problem is a nuisance, but probably not as big a problem as those listed below.

2)Heel/toe wear pattern (feathering) on tread blocks

Traditionally, this problem has been thought to be caused by a toe misalignment. However, this problem normally results in the pattern going across the tread of the tire, from left to right. In other words, the tread blocks would have a sawtooth pattern when viewed facing the tread of the tire. On the 350z, the sawtooth pattern is rotated 90 degrees, so that the pattern is seen when looking at the tire from the side. The leading edge of the tread blocks are raised in relation to the trailing edge. On the 350z, the problem results in tire howling noises especially at lower speeds (less then 30 mph) and under braking.

In any case, in addition to toe settings the problem can be caused by other things including incorrect caster settings, tire construction, hard driving, or tire/wheel imbalance. Nissan is applying the idea that it is a toe problem, but it seems that in most cases the toe adjustment does not solve the problem. Many people have had the toe set to various settings with no solution to the problem. Based on my research, this is not being caused by hard driving because most people with the problem just drive their 350z's normally as a daily driver. Tire/wheel imbalance probably is not a factor, because the imbalance would be very apparent on those cars that had it, and it generally is not. Tire construction may seem like a likely culprit, but people have tried other tire brands/models and still had the problem resurface.

Keep in mind that once this wear pattern has started, it does not correct itself even if the root problem is corrected. The feathering and the tire noise experienced will persist or even get worse until new tires are installed.

3)Cupping of the tread

This is usually caused by tire/wheel imbalance or worn out/loose suspension parts such as bushings or dampers. The 350z is known to be underdamped from the factory, meaning the dampers are not well matched to the springs. There could also be other characteristics of the 350z suspension that result in inadequate tire/wheel control over bumps. These conditions allow the tires to "bounce" a bit more than they should as they encounter bumps on the road. The oscillations in the load on the tire cause higher wear to occur in spots around the tire rather than getting even wear all the way around the circumference. When this starts, it will continue to get worse over time because flat or cupped spots will form, which contribute to the problem.

When the tires develop this problem, excessive road noise and vibration will result. This problem does not seem to be as widespread as the feathering, as I have only personally seen or heard of a few of these.

Like the feathering problem, once this wear pattern has started it does not correct itself even if the root problem is corrected. The tire noise and vibration experienced with the problem will persist until new tires are installed.



What I have experienced:

On my first set of tires, I had all three of the above mentioned problems by about 6000 miles. Starting at around 3000 miles, the howling noise, as caused by the feathering, was apparent. I did not get in a hurry to take the car in to the dealer because I was waiting to hear about a real solution. None came, and I eventually took the car in at about 7000 miles. At this point, all three problems were obvious when looking at the tires or driving the car. Dealer adjusted toe, ordered new tires, and sent me on my way.

A new pair of front tires went on at about 7600 miles. At this point, no other changes or adjustments were made. After putting only 1000 miles on these new tires, the howling had already started, albeit not as loud at this time as it could get. After 2000 miles on the new tires, I observed that the feathering is present and very obvious on the outer tread of the tires, and much less so on the inside. The noise level is terrible. So, the car is scheduled to go in to a different dealer on Tuesday. For the second time, it will be serviced by a Nissan dealer while they have Nissan tech line directing them. They already tried to weasel out of fixing it by saying there's nothing they can do besides set the toe, and since that's already done they don't expect to fix the problem. But I explained to them that while I understand their postion as a dealer, I still expect Nissan to step up and do something.

 

This confirms my personal experience after Nissan adjusted my vehicle to conform to the 2mm toe in guidance and replaced my tires. The feathering/cupping became more prevalent on the outside tread blocks and less so on the inside. My last alignment was also done under the direct supervision of Nissan Tech. And yes they may have increased the accuracy by + or - a fraction of a millimeter by following the TSB but this was not very helpful in eliminating the problem. I can't believe how many people, not neccessarily you, but people in general, are buying into this "Nissan can't do an alignment" garbage. It simply defies all logic that every Nissan Dealer, Every Nissan Factory Technician involved in a final repair attempt, the Nissan Dealer that worked on the AutoWeek long term test car, everyone except Firestone according to one individual, is not capable of operating an alignment rack. And based on the number of newbies reporting the problem, Nissan Motor Corporation of Japan can't do an alignment either. This whole alignment TSB business has been a misleading waste of time perpetrated by Nissan. Sorry for rambling. This is just the first confirmation that I've seen where 2mm toe in = feathering on outside tread blocks.

 

Dear Overzealous, I need to correct your mis-interpertation of my posts sir. First I never meant anyone to believe that Firestone is the only place that knows how to do an alignment. Also as i said in my last post that just for my own tortured mind I would like to hear if people are getting 4 wheel alignments done or are the Nissan people just checking the front. In my particular case when my dealer put on my new OEM tires that Nissan gave me they didnt even check the alignment. I also, like you Mr. Overzealous, Believe the problem is much more than an alignment. But we need to put our heads together and see whats going on with the dealerships and Nissan. The only way we can win is to compare notes. All my observations have been to create useful dialog and make people think. Lets let some of our engineering friends tell us the realationship between the front and rear wheels in a 4 wheel independent suspension car. Mr. Overzealous please belivew me when i say i agree with 98% of what you say. Thanks, Big Al

 

.Big Al
You are correct all four wheels need to be aligned. In my experience that is the only way to do a true alignment. Most new machines check the whole car for proper settings. The Term Front end alignment is like Kleen ex is to tissue. It is not intended to mean that only the front is checked.
But the other thing to consider is that if the front was done at not the rear it would not change the front settings. They are both independent of each other. You can have the front or back way out of spec and not effect the opposite end of the car.

PS NNA is playing us all for fools

 

Sorry Big Al. I wasn't thinking of you when I made the Firestone comment. I didn't even remember who I had previously spoken to about that. Anyway I only said it in jest. Sorry if that was done at your expense. I wasn't commenting on your last post either. You are absolutely right. Nissan has never done anything with my rear settings. It could make a difference.

Mike

 

Boomer
Thanks for the insight,
I am very happy you like the all weather snow tires that NNA put on our car,I hate them. Its not the same car with these tires.

Yes I am trying to get rid of this tire eating monster car with a Lemon Law suit.
If your car like many is fixed than great I am happy for you,but mine is not fixed and I am pissed to say the least
I would buy another Z if the problem were fixed but I feel that If NNA had a fix it would have happened.
Hell Some manufactures can build a new car from a concept drawing in less time than NNA has had to fix the tire problems.

You are entilted to your opinion as I am to mine. I say we just agree to disagree on the tire issue.

 

You mean if they are held to the lemon law, they do not have to refund the full price of the car?

 

In VA we get back what we paid for the car plus taxes and legal fees, minus a set 18 cents per mile from the miles at the start of the problem.
Our problem started at about 4132 miles. The car currently as about 17,500 miles and three sets of tires.

You need to check your states laws regarding the Lemon Law

 

Thanks - from the looks of your reply, I'm alittle further along than you in the BBB/LL process.


While you're waiting for the phone call - "FYI" - Nissan waited the full 10 days to call me back and even waited till 1 hour before I left work. Needless to say I was not happy.

They set up the final repair 3 weeks after the phone call, the earliest they could send the District Tech to fix my car. The Attorney Gen's office has sent me notice back stating they have received my form and the BBB has put my case on hold for 60 days after finding in my favor dring the 1st round. They informed me that I have tll 3/05 to reopen the case at anytime and request a settlement hearing since there is no 2nd final repair allowed under FLA LL.

So I have a file with "ALL" documents, pictures, articles, you name it. I brought it with me each time I had to visit the dealership and made sure copies of all documents were added - including the ones kept by the dealership that you sometimes don't see.

 

According to my dealer, they had all 4 wheels aligned. I was specific about this because my rear tires had been wearing on the inside (not feathering, just wearing too fast). Also, I had a mass blowout on the freeway about 5 weeks ago, and I felt that had the tire not been worn out on the inside, that blowout may not have happened. They never addressed that point.

It has been about 500 miles since I had the alignment done and the tires swapped, and the noise is still there. After reading this thread a little more, I am going to call Nissan and demand that they replace those front tires. Not sure what to do about the rears. The stock tire is fairly worn (although they swapped the rears too), and the blown tire was replaced with a used tire that I don't really feel comfortable with long term.