Wow this is amazing. If you look back on page 1 you'll see my first post on this issue. 186 pages, 3719 replies, and 157000+ views. Holy cow this has got to be one of the all time longest problem threads ever. I wonder if any of us original posters on this issue are still around?

Ok I'll take a stab at a recap seeing I have some history with this.

1. Frog in hot water. I have heard that if you put a frog in water and gradually raise the temperature to boiling the frog will stay there and boil to death. But if you put a frog in already boiling water it will jump out. I don't know if this is urban legend and really don't care, but the point is well understood and applies to this issue very well. The front tires gradually wear and the noise gradually increases until one day, depending upon the individual, you notice a roar coming from the front tires at low speeds. To be specific, some people don't ever notice it, some people notice it right away and some people somewhere in between.

2. We overloaded Nissans fax numbers way back with letters that got the engineers from Japan to come look at out cars. Mine was one they looked at and they took my tires with them. I had put a set of Michelin pilot sports on out of my own pocket, this was before the TSB that provided for tire replacement. Now there is this form to fill out to supposedly get reimbursed if your in my situation. I haven't done that yet, that’s my next mission.

3. The latest TSB (NTB04-043a August 8, 2005) replaces the original (NTB03-006b/c) that called for dismounting and swapping the front tires and updated alignment numbers. The latest TSB provides for replacing the front tires. The latest TSB is applicable to 03-04 350Zs.

4. The replacement tires have a solid band on the inside edges of the outside and inside tread block bands. I did not see this tread pattern on any of the tires on the Bridgestone website or tirerack. This new tread pattern is only on the front tires. The Nissan rear tires still have the same ol potenza tread pattern.

5. This is not feathering or cupping or scalloping or any other commonly named tire wear phenomena. I still take issue with us calling it that. By calling it one of those well known names we do a disservice to ourselves and the enormity of the problem. This phenomenon is accurately described as an abnormal heel to toe wear pattern on the inside or outside row of tread blocks circumferentially around the tire. Vehicles with high CASTER angles have unusual tire wear problems and I found a couple websites years ago that talked about this exact phenomenon being associated with caster. All changing camber and toe will do is slow down/accelerate this wear. Note: classical feathering, a heel toe wear pattern laterally across the tire is caused by toe.

6. The engineers told the tech at my dealership that what was causing the problem was the individual tread blocks were pinching together. That is why they came up with this new tire. I have talked to many people and several alignment shops that have been in business for many years and some claim that is normal wear. One guy claimed that any tire that has lateral cuts on the treads blocks that go all the way across the individual tread blocks will do this and that regularly rotating the tires from corner to corner is how it is mitigated. (unfortunately we can't do that) My dealership service rep and tech said that no one that has had these new tires installed has complained again. Many posts you will see in this thread say that changing suspension components e.g. struts or springs, will fix the problem. We even had some originally say that just changing tires fixed the problem. And one guy told me that it was all about tire pressure. And now the 05-06s that aren't covered by the latest TSB may or may not be fixed. Oh and I guess I should add that I read in either the 06 350Z product guide that the dealers have or the brochure, I forget which, that the front suspension has been changed on the 06's. Unfortunately, no one at my dealer knew the details of that change.

I'm sorry, and with all due respect, I don't believe any of these answers. I discussed this with the tech at my dealer and he agreed with me. All any of these changes do is slow down this abnormal wear so that hopefully you can get 10,000 miles out of a 10,000 mile tire. Now those were his exact words. YMMV.

For the last 3 years I have walked up to every Z I see in a parking lot and felt the tires and judged the mileage from the tread depth using a penny. (yes it's odd and a couple of times I caught the owner and talked to them about it and they didn't even know about the problem but they were grateful when I told them - so the morale is don't be afraid to do it yourselves - get the word out) This wear is real easy to feel. Place your hand on the tire and gently rub it back and forth from front of car to rear of car and then back to front. Then feel the rears. I can feel the difference with about 1000 miles of wear. In fact, the day the tech and I talked about these new tires, I walked him up to 3 Z's they had in the shop (for other reasons) checked them with my hand by feel and every one of them had the problem, yet not a single one of the owners had complained about the problem. And yes the tech knew how to feel for it. He admitted to changing a lot of tires for this problem. Then I talked to a salesman that had a used Z on the lot and he was torqued because he got in it with a potential customer that turned it down because of the tire noise! So right there is a case where the dealer could have done the TSB and probably have made a sale...but most of the people in charge at the dealer don't think twice about it. Oh and remember that some Z's do this on the inside row of tread blocks when you feel for it, that is what is determined by camber. Changing camber can spread the wear across the full lateral face of the tire and lengthen time for the wear to get severe but does not truly fix the problem.

-Part 1-

 

-part 2-


So people can say what they want, as Popeye says I yams what I yams. I know what I know. I know every 03-04 Z has this problem. It is inherent to 8 degrees of caster and the Z's front suspension setup. I go and check them myself with my hand. I don't depend on someone else’s subjective hearing and acceptance level. It's the frog in hot water. Some people notice the noise, others don't. Some Z's do it real fast, others take longer. And most Z owners don't even know of the problem or how to check for it. But all 03-04 Z's do this.

Now, I will say that with about oh lets say 10000 miles on my Michelin Pilot Sports that I just had replaced (take a look at that tread pattern and tell me about pinching) they were no where near as severe as the original Bridgestone’s were at 5000. Totally night and day difference. So was the noise obviously.

So, the jury is still out on the later models. I have not verified any of those myself yet. It could be they have made some changes just like others have made to suspension components that lengthen the time it takes for the wear to get bad. And again with all due respect, I'm not going to believe they don't really truly have the problem until I see some with about 10,000 miles on them and check them myself with my hand. But I have verified 03's and 04s. Oh and yes to the ragtops as well. A coworker has one and I warned him about it upfront but he bought one anyways and is complaining nonetheless.

Ok side note here about the G35c. A few coworkers opted to go with the G35c instead of the Z and claimed they have the same front suspension as the Z. I explained to them the problem the Z has with this abnormal wear pattern and they say they don't have that. I immediately reply then you don't have the same front suspension as the Z . I actually don't know about the G35c's, if they have the same suspension, alignment specifications or tire wear problems or not. Maybe someone else does, worth checking into if somebody wants to.

It is to note that the TSB applies to 03's and 04's only. So Nissan thinks they have fixed the problem on 05s and 06s. But nobody at my dealership knows what they changed to fix it, if indeed it is truly fixed vice just lengthened. I believe they changed the tire so that you can get 10,000 miles out of a 10,000 mile tire, just like the tech told me. That doesn't mean they fixed the root cause.

So the bottom line for at least 03s and 04s is, you can mitigate the issue and lengthen the time it takes for the problem to become, ummm lets use the word "unacceptable". But you are not going to truly fix it. I don't believe 05's are truly fixed either but can't prove it. 06's might have a chance since there is supposedly a front suspension change, but don't know about that either it's just a potential at this point.

I fully believed that Nissan would step up to the plate and fix this as the Z was/is their flagship. Unfortunately I was wrong. They did finally come up with a special tire and a TSB that extends your warranty for alignment and tire wear, but even that’s prorated and eventually your out of any luck. So I guess I need to go find the class action lawsuit page and sign up. Kudos to those that pursued the lemon law, I just can't bring myself to do that yet. Since these new trick tires only have about 18 miles on them, I need to take some noise measurements and pictures and update my website. For now, you can see my story here: http://www.lasercannon.com/Newz/feathering.htm.

It's been awhile since I've been on here and when I do occasionally visit here I just check this thread to see if there is anything new on this issue. And I see there hasn't been. About three weeks ago I had taken the Z in to get a bunch of TSBs done at once and that’s when my interest got rekindled and I talked to the tech and was able to see the new tires, they pulled them out of stock for me to see, and I downloaded the latest TSB from nissantech pubs. I can't promise I'll be back here anytime soon as I'm thoroughly disgusted with this issue. But, I'll try. Right now my leather seats are cracking and flaking (vinyl piece) so that will be my next mission after the tire reimbursement form. I think I'll mess with the dealer a little then probably order a set of custom full leather covers. Heck of a note for a 3 year old car that has been garaged and only has 20,600 miles on it. Three sets of tires, numerous alignments and the seat is wearing out. Still, I love my Z and wouldn't trade it Hope this helps, take care and good luck.

 

Heres a pic of the new front tire tread pattern.

 

Here is a pic of the new rear tire tread pattern...only it's not a new pattern, just a new tire , this is looking from the back of the tire towards the front of the car.

 

Whoa Enforcer, I didn't know there's anyone here that posts less than me!
Sorry, I haven't read your post yet, I will tho.

 

I struggled with the tire problem for 3 years. I could have lived with the suspension related tire problems if it was the only problem with my 03. During the 3 year nightmare my Z spent over 90 days at the dealer with a host of mechanical and electrical problems. My last visit to the dealer was to have the oil changed and it took 3 days and 2 visits to get it done properly. Finally won my lemon law case and nissan was forced to buy the Z back. The happiest day of my life was the day I returned that POS to nissan. I will never never never never consider owning a nissan again!

I wish you all well and good luck winning the "good fight"

 

sorry to hear...but thank god for lemon law eh

 

Sweet, I am just about to pass 39,000 miles on my 04' and the local Nissan dealer has said they will replace my front tires for free and do an alignment. Not a bad deal for tires with 39k on them. I just hope this does not backfire when I take it in.

 

39K on the original stock tires??? Either your roads are a lot better than mine or you're driving in bald tires or you put a lot of mileage on other tires like snow tires.

I'm at ~26K miles on the my rears are almost worn out. I think I'd be lucky to make it past 32K miles. It's not surprising given the low treadwear index rating they have.

My fronts got replaced awhile ago under the most recent TSB/campaign so they're pretty new still.

 

Yep, some of us orginal posters are still around - mine was the early 2003 model Superblack, took delivery Nov 2002. 5k miles and "oh sh*t" look at my tires...which led to one thing then another and eventually landed me in my G Coupe 6MT 2004.

On paper the components appear to be the same, the front spring rates, caster, etc. are specified as the same. My PS/2s have never shown this pattern on the G coupe. I could speculate all day as to why my 2004 does not appear to have this problem at now 26k miles, but the fact is as similar as the two cars may be, they are not the same.

Other dynamics such as variation in rear springs, wheelbase difference, sway bars, car weight and weight distribution mean as close as the two cars may be, they could have exactly the same front suspension IMHO and not have this issue.

I have heard of other G Coupe owners who have had this issue by reading forums, but I have not seen any TSB's, have not had the problem myself after now coming up on 3 years this December, it's just not there.

Believe me, after my experience with my 350Z and all the trips to the dealer, I would know it - I watch for it very closely.

That said, both still great cars to drive, too bad Nissan didn't come up with some of their answers such as the newer tire, etc. in the first year they had to do so, they could have saved a lot of headaches on the part of people who posted to this forum with their problems.

I don't hate Nissan for this, I would never have gone Lemon Law, I don't buy into the idea the car is fatally flawed. For me it was this and the sum of all the TSB's and just how badly beat so many of the components were after 11k miles. The brakes are underspec'd for this car other than the Brembos on the Track, the year one transmissions ate synchros for lunch, and I had enough after about TSB #10 that had nothing to do with the tires.

But, call the G what you want, it is a Nissan and I wouldn't part with it.

- Steve

 

Hiya Steve, thanks for the reply, that helps. So far no problem with the tranny but I only have 20k miles on it. I had them check the brakes when I took it in for the tires and stuff, they say 30% left on the rears. Question on your G tires. Do your front tread patterns look like the new Z ones? Good luck with the G .

 

Thanks, and good luck to you too.

My tires are the original PS/2's admittedly only maybe <5k from into the wear bars, but they are vintage Q4 2003 tires. I have 2 sets of wheels for the car.

I run Pirelli Snowsport 240's on the car from late October to first week of April, so with 26k total on the car I really have about 15k on the Michies.

So, they don't look like the new Z tires which I have not seen in person but my understanding is the tread is not blocks but more of almost a continuous line.

It will be time for new summer tires this year, not sure what I will buy. The current ones will not last I think until October, at least not in the rears!

On the tranny the guys who I know personally lost say 3rd gear happened very early in the life of the car, like <12k miles in the first 6 months they owned the car. 3rd is the only gear I have personally seen just go away.

2003 G coupes were rumored to have some first year tranny problems but my 2004 seems fine so far, all I have done is have the fluids changed once.

 

Pics of tires on this link - both snows and the orgs
http://homepage.mac.com/stracy01/G35...toAlbum91.html

In use
http://homepage.mac.com/stracy01/G35...oAlbum105.html
the Pirellis work pretty well

My Z tires right after the TSB side to side swap - so the former inner sides are on the outer, a bit misleading
http://homepage.mac.com/stracy01/Auto/PhotoAlbum12.html

I now see the difference in the new tread - a good idea IMHO. The old tire had Soft completely cut blocks that do squirm around a lot.
- Steve

 

Front tires are still in good shape other than the feathering. My rear tires are completley bald. I have to replace them this week. I bought the car used at 23K miles and there are no service records for the alignment and tire fix.

 

Yeah I just looked at the pic of the PS/2s. The cuts on the outside tread blocks go almost all the way through and on the insides they do. If they were on the Z I'd bet they would heel to toe like the original bridgestones.

 

So after reading/ skimming this entire thread and other forums......there is no absolute aftermarket fix or suspension upgrade to solve this? I find this hard to believe?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Correct, nothing to fix it but the lemon law and possibly the class action suit (I'm a member).
If my wife didn't cry every time i mention getting rid of the Z, I'd go after the lemon law.

 

I had a 2003 350Z that had this feathering issue. Eventually the "set toe to max" TSB instruction fixed it. After that I did 20k miles with no feathering problem.

I traded it in after 2.5 years at ~40k miles for a 2005 G35 coupe. At ~10k miles same feathering problem on the G35 as well. Infiniti dealer did not want to hear about it. Said it was normal wear.

FYI, I now have a 2006 350z. Much tighter build (no squeaks/rattles), somewhat softer suspension, the infamous "bounce" seems to have gone as well. Engine has noticeably less pull at lower RPM, though. Maybe still tight (3.5k miles)

 

Last year I received the recall notice for the tires. I was noticing the road noise, but was told by friends that it's common on wide sports tires such as the ones on the 350z. Last October I took my car in for the recall and was told that there was no problem with them and the road noise was minimal and normal (that was @ 28K miles). I now have 38k miles and the noise is bordering on ridiculous. I took my car back to the dealer and this time they told me that the only way to remove the noise problem is by replacing the tires. This only leads me to believe that they knew all along that it was the tires but brushed it aside until the warranty was over, it's utterly discusting that customers are treated this way. I love my 350z but will never buy a Nissan ever again.

 

This is the kind of stuff you should be telling Nissan. There are two kinds of dealers - good ones and bad ones. Your's was one of the latter.