Notices
Maintenance & Repair 350Z up keep and diagnosing/fixing problems

Tire FEATHERING: FYI

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 15, 2007 | 06:21 PM
  #3781  
dh21187's Avatar
dh21187
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Sunnyvale, CA
Default Bad design

Originally Posted by SteveZ
Driving style? That's bogus. One of the earliest worst cases I know of was a friend's wife who commuted about 20 miles each way on freeway to and from work. If anything the best my tires ever looked was after a track day when they were pretty well scuffed flat, basically like shaving the tires. "Normal" use seemed to be the worst driving style, i.e. lots of pedestrian driving and straight line freeway.

I would not put much stock in the RE050's, the idea of using a harder compound has been tried and failed, all it usually does is increase ride harshness and when the wear comes, makes it much louder and pronounced. I personally know someone who against my advice took Michelin P/S All Season tires, sure they have more than twice the wear rating, but for 20,000 miles you get a markedly inferior ride both in performance and ultimately safety, the tires don't stick, braking distance increases, and that's probably not why you bought the car. I feel that a stock Z is heavy enough that the high wear rate but reasonable traction of the first RE040's wasn't a bad compromise, I was 75% through mine at 11-12k miles. At least they performed well until the problems started (5k miles or so). The car wasn't made for tires that don't stick (hint: search on "swapped ends today" or "crashed my Z today" in this forum).

They did feather, they cupped, they were swapped, etc. I walked from the car, break-even or close enough to my G-Coupe. The Pilot Sports on the V35 (2004) have not had this problem after 32k miles; the front dampers and springs are identical to my Z, the rear springs may have been a little softer, not sure if by 2004 they went to the ~425 ft-lb springs like the Z. Some people have had this problem with the Coupes, too.

The RE050 is no Michie PS AS tire, but you may want to ensure that Nissan has not gone with different dampers or spring rates on the front especially; it fixing an '03 350Z was this easy I would have done so. They may have made changes to the front end not in geometry as much as springs/dampers, I cannot imagine running a lot harder compound. I'd not be surprised if in going to a longer wearing compound changes were made somewhere else, they have to keep the balance of the car either through tread design or other suspension changes which your car may not have. The newer RE040's were a step in the right direction with their tread pattern and the blocks not cut to the edge. A nice idea that will maybe get people out of warranty by their second set of fronts vs. the first. But don't assume what's good for the newer Z is good for you, it will likely just be another expensive fix that will last for a bit longer.

I spent the better part of 2 years talking to a lot of people on this and never really figured it out, either. Alignment isn't the issue, although it can make things worse. If newer Z's truly are statistically better and not suffering this problem as much, then I would look at what's changed - spring rates, damper construction, etc. as not much else has really changed.

If you want to PM me feel free, not much of a story to tell, but if I can help I would at least tell you what I "know". The attached is how badly shot mine RE040's were at ~5k when I took the car in because it was skipping under moderately hard braking, the ABS would go nuts - skipping off the tops of the cupped tread. Also had the compression rod pass side replaced same time under TSB. All the swap did was feed the beast fresh meat...by 10k both sides looked like that.

HTH

It has nothing to do with alignment, the problem is in their engineering. There is a hardware design defect that is causing the problem. NNA has been denying it and you need to sue them under the Lemon Law and get your money back. There is nothing you can do on your end to fix the car without replacing the entire front end with new parts.
Reply
Old Apr 21, 2007 | 01:34 PM
  #3782  
fedupp's Avatar
fedupp
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

I agree it's not alignment issue but where do you get your info on a design issue. I have never read or heard of a change in any or all of the front suspension parts in the four years I have followed this problem. Is this just an assumption on your part or do you have actual proof. I'm not disargreeing with you that it may be a design defect I would just like to see something in print that states that Nissan has made a change to the front suspension. Otherwise your assumption is simply speculative.
Reply
Old Apr 21, 2007 | 03:21 PM
  #3783  
dh21187's Avatar
dh21187
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Sunnyvale, CA
Default

Originally Posted by fedupp
I agree it's not alignment issue but where do you get your info on a design issue. I have never read or heard of a change in any or all of the front suspension parts in the four years I have followed this problem. Is this just an assumption on your part or do you have actual proof. I'm not disargreeing with you that it may be a design defect I would just like to see something in print that states that Nissan has made a change to the front suspension. Otherwise your assumption is simply speculative.
Get an exploded diagram view of the parts on the front-end from 2003 and compare them to the 2005, they are supposed to be the same. You'll notice they have changed part numbers on some of the suspension components, which they never bothered to tell people about. This was an attempt to alleviate the problems with the car. It didn't help much. Why would you try to fix something that you claim isn't broken?
Reply
Old Apr 21, 2007 | 05:33 PM
  #3784  
SteveZ's Avatar
SteveZ
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
From: CT
Default

Originally Posted by fedupp
I agree it's not alignment issue but where do you get your info on a design issue. I have never read or heard of a change in any or all of the front suspension parts in the four years I have followed this problem. Is this just an assumption on your part or do you have actual proof. I'm not disargreeing with you that it may be a design defect I would just like to see something in print that states that Nissan has made a change to the front suspension. Otherwise your assumption is simply speculative.
Also remember the car is the sum of its parts - rear spring rates have changed, too in the 350Z over the years. That impacts weight transfer in a wide variety of situations.

Haven't seen the diagrams myself, but have read the same in reviews, info that reporters obviously didn't come up with on their own but most likely found in their press kits...
Reply
Old Apr 25, 2007 | 01:20 PM
  #3785  
fedupp's Avatar
fedupp
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by SteveZ
Also remember the car is the sum of its parts - rear spring rates have changed, too in the 350Z over the years. That impacts weight transfer in a wide variety of situations.

Haven't seen the diagrams myself, but have read the same in reviews, info that reporters obviously didn't come up with on their own but most likely found in their press kits...
This is all I ever hear. Someone heard from someone, who heard from someone else. Who are these so called reporters? Who do they write for? If I knew then I could read up on it myself. But I doubt if any such articles actually exist. I've heard every explanation possible and there is a multitude of them. But lets face it, they are just speculations. I acknowledge, some of them are well thought out but if you simply read through even part of this thread it is quite obvious that no one can specifically say what causes the premature and irregular wear of the front tires. And to this day Nissan still stands by the 'misalignment story'. Just phone them.
Reply
Old Apr 25, 2007 | 03:19 PM
  #3786  
SteveZ's Avatar
SteveZ
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
From: CT
Default

Originally Posted by fedupp
This is all I ever hear. Someone heard from someone, who heard from someone else. Who are these so called reporters? Who do they write for?
Nissan, indirectly. Automobile, AutoSpies, Driveline...but in reality, all pretty much the Nissan press kit line. While no diagrams or detailed pics, it's pretty well published and documented that the FM platform our next 350Z, the soon to be released G37 Coupe, and the new 2007 G35 Sedan are using modifed designs for front suspension:

"... Front suspension is now a single-pivot design to reduce kickback..."

"The front suspension is redesigned to incorporate a single-pivot lower control arm..."

"...4 wheel active steering option" (wow, HICAs again? Deja vu)

I've driven the new 2007 6MT Sedan, and it has a very different front feel - significantly sharper turn in, and despite its size the turning circle is now the same as my '04 Coupe. My G, like my Z was, is my daily driver - screw the articles, the front suspension has changed - the driving difference was hard to miss. I expect to find the 2008 305Z and even 2007 NISMO Z will have similar difference in feel, as will the new G37 Coupe.

If I knew then I could read up on it myself. But I doubt if any such articles actually exist.
They do, but the only education you'll get is the same party line Nissan feeds all the reviewers. Just to be clear, NONE of these changes have anything to do with 2006 and prior model year Z's or G's. It's all only relevant to new platform vehicles and has squat to do with this thread in terms of a "fix".

I've heard every explanation possible and there is a multitude of them. But lets face it, they are just speculations. I acknowledge, some of them are well thought out but if you simply read through even part of this thread it is quite obvious that no one can specifically say what causes the premature and irregular wear of the front tires. And to this day Nissan still stands by the 'misalignment story'. Just phone them..
They have no factory-supplied fix, just alignment and tire-swap TSB stuff, which is part of the reason I traded in my 350Z after 14 mos. I was in my Z with less than 5k miles when this thread started. I've read most of it.

Despite having identical front suspension for the 2004 model year, my G Coupe has not had this problem in 36k miles. Several people with significant aftermarket changes seem to have avoided the problem. Bad alignment aggravates it. Good alignment helps, but does not resolve it.

There is no stock fix for the average Z owner, period. That's the real shame on Nissan. They've just waited until they came up to time for more than a cosmetic refresh, tough luck for all the rest of the original Z owners (and some G's, they were not immune, just I personally haven't had this issue on my '04).

If I did, it would be gone - there is no reason to keep dealing with this problem; most of us who figured that out early got rid of the car. This has nearly been a FIVE year thread - does anyone really think Nissan is working on a solution?

Walk, cut your losses.
Reply
Old Apr 26, 2007 | 01:37 PM
  #3787  
wikel's Avatar
wikel
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: KC, MO
Default 23,000 on my 03Z... and got the problem AGAIN!

First time I had the problem was at 12,000 miles. Now I have it again and Nissan is saying that it is out of warranty. I called them up told them that was BS.

The lady on the line told me basically that it was "by design" that the tires are ruined every 10k miles or so... can you believe that... they are calling it a FEATURE of the car. I lit into her like a christmas tree. Told them I want a permenant fix to the problem and not another band-aid. Also screamed at her about how it is completely unreasonable to expect to replace tires every 10k miles because of a design defect of Nissans and also that the special tires to reduce the problem is unreasonable as well... stating I can't go out and buy your special tire from toyo, etc... because no one makes tires to conceal your defect.

I demanded that they give me a permenant fix or I'm going to sue in whatever venue I can. This is total horse crap and I'm PO'd like a MF.

Basically the service manager told me that they have seen SO MANY 350z with this problem and it's said because there is nothing they can do without Nissan authorizing the fix. Someone needs to call these service managers into court and put Nissan in their place.

This isn't about money to me, but is about principle... I'm pretty sure I can sue them in small claims court every year to replace my tires because of breach of contract.

Last edited by wikel; Apr 26, 2007 at 01:41 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 27, 2007 | 08:46 AM
  #3788  
Thaddeus's Avatar
Thaddeus
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Grass Lake, Michigan
Default In reply to "23,000 on my 03Z... and got the problem AGAIN! "

Many of us with this issue went the lemon law route with success. Nissan bought back my '03. I did not get full purchase $ but I did get $ based on first time reporting issue to dealership less depreciation to that date.

To top it off, I then pruchased an '05, same model (Enthusiast). I enjoyed the 350 far to much not to have another.
Reply
Old Apr 28, 2007 | 07:39 AM
  #3789  
Kegsbane's Avatar
Kegsbane
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
From: Charlottesville, VA
Default

It seems like the guys who got aftermarket suspension have all abandoned us. However, they did so after saying that switching to aftermarket fixed their problems.

I'm seriously, seriously considering going with aftermarket suspension in the very near future to help remedy this problem. Is there anyone out there with aftermarket suspension who STILL is having issues with this?
Reply
Old Apr 28, 2007 | 07:46 AM
  #3790  
frank350z's Avatar
frank350z
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Default

I went to N. Plainfield Nissan this morning to have my car checked out. My 350Z has 10100 miles and this is the first time I took it to the dealer for the feathering problem. The car was originally my dad's and he passed away. We bought it brand new in 2002.

After 2 hours, I came back to check on my car. I asked them if they had brought it into the shop yet. The service manager tells me they couldnt find the car, but also they couldn't do anything about it either. The TSB ext had expired and I would have to pay for 2 new front tires and $90 4-wheel alignment. We argued back and forth for 1/2 hour and I decided to just take the car home...He tried to tell me each tire is $300/ea and NNA will not cover the cost.
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 12:25 PM
  #3791  
frank350z's Avatar
frank350z
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Default

I called Nissan Consumer Affairs today after my visit to N. Plainfield Nissan and explained that as the original owner of my 350z - I never received notice in the mail that this TSB had an expiration and the problem exhibited itself only recently - and I should be entitled to AT LEAST a 4-wheel alignment correction under my extended warranty...

I first got a super helpful person that promised to forward me through to the warranty dept - then i was on hold for 20min, then I got a very unfriendly rep who was disinterested in hearing my case, but passively "put in my request for review by a regional rep"....NICE CUSTOMER SERVICE...

They told me I'd be contacted within 24-48 hours not counting today by phone by a regional rep. I'll be ringing them again im sure.
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 09:42 PM
  #3792  
AlvinHuyN's Avatar
AlvinHuyN
Nismo 370Z #697
Premier Member
iTrader: (73)
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,580
Likes: 3
From: Los Angeles
Default

Hm...so anyone find a fix through lowering the car? to changing shocks? let me know please...
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 09:47 PM
  #3793  
JDMFairladyZ33's Avatar
JDMFairladyZ33
New Member
iTrader: (37)
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,481
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
Default

Originally Posted by frank350z
I called Nissan Consumer Affairs today after my visit to N. Plainfield Nissan and explained that as the original owner of my 350z - I never received notice in the mail that this TSB had an expiration and the problem exhibited itself only recently - and I should be entitled to AT LEAST a 4-wheel alignment correction under my extended warranty...

I'm the original owner of my 03 and I never got a letter regarding any TSB. I think by law they don't have to notice you on TSBs, only for recalls. I sure got one for the fuel hose recall. I'm sorry to say but I think you are SOL on this matter.
Reply
Old May 2, 2007 | 06:48 AM
  #3794  
wikel's Avatar
wikel
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: KC, MO
Default Update...

Nissan is not going to cover the alignment problems. So after contacting a couple of lawyers, we are quickly filing a lawsuit against Nissan.

Short version of the story... 4 years from date of purchase for statute of limitations, so only had about 8 days to file the suit. They are taking on my case because I had a ton of paperwork on the issue on multiple occasions over the years (03Z w/ 23,000 miles). The lawsuit basically costs me nothing... so I recommend to you guys to not "hope" they will fix your problem, but instead SUE their as*es! The clock is ticking and they are sticking you with a poorly designed car... DON'T ACCEPT THIS!

Lawyer stated Nissan usually moves to settle after suit is filed. Could get between 10%-30% of the value of the car (kbb = 20,000 right now) and I get to keep the car. I would end up either paying for a suspension upgrade to resolve the issue or put new tires on the car and sell it. So if get lucky I would end up around $26,000 and be rid of the POS.

I tell EVERYONE to never buy a Nissan because they don't stand behind the products that they build.

Funny thing is I caught some people looking at a 350z in the lot and told them the entire story... guess what? They walked away from purchasing the car. Nissan can kiss my a** at this point.

Last edited by wikel; Mar 27, 2008 at 12:17 PM.
Reply
Old May 6, 2007 | 09:31 AM
  #3795  
wikel's Avatar
wikel
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: KC, MO
Default Lawsuit filed...

Lawsuit filed for breach of warranty. Guys... if you are waiting for Nissan swoop in and fix the problems in your car, give it up. To file a breach of warranty claim, you have to do it no more than 4 years from the purchase date. I know I got my 03z late, so I just made it. If this is an option for you, I would recommend you I would pursue it ASAP! Otherwise Nissan is just waiting for the clock to run out and you WILL be stuck with the problem... rather nice of them huh?

The lawsuit will not cost me much, just court fees... and they are initally asking for Nissan to repay everything back EVERYTHING (price of the car, tax, registration fees, insurance, etc...).

I can't offiically talk about it at this point, but highly recommed anyone that is waiting of the fence to DO SOMETHING NOW! Otherwise you WILL be stuck with this problem... and it may already be too late.

The cases are state specific, but my lawyer is Krohn & Moss, Ltd.
Reply
Old May 6, 2007 | 09:35 AM
  #3796  
randymack's Avatar
randymack
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix,Az
Default

yeah mine was toed in too much also. dealership took care of it and so far no probs after 3,000 miles
Reply
Old May 10, 2007 | 01:03 PM
  #3797  
tommyjeans214's Avatar
tommyjeans214
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
From: CA
Default

so is there an official way to fix this?
i couldnt come to browse through all 190 pages lol...

i saw some people were able to fix it w/ one allignment and others tried 4 times without success....

If i drop in whole new aftermarket suspension system, will it help it?
thanks
Reply
Old May 14, 2007 | 12:25 PM
  #3798  
XGTO's Avatar
XGTO
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Boca Raton, FL
Default Tire Brand

My feathering and noise has come back again with the Bridgestones that the dealer replaced under warrenty with the previous owner at 4500 miles. I now have 9800 miles on my 2003 so I'm out of luck. If change brands if tire to saya Falkin Or Toyo etc. and get the alignment done again will the problem come back ?
Reply
Old May 14, 2007 | 01:44 PM
  #3799  
SteveZ's Avatar
SteveZ
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
From: CT
Default

Highly unlikely - road well travelled, may extend miles between with harder compound, but yes it will come back
Reply
Old May 14, 2007 | 02:16 PM
  #3800  
wikel's Avatar
wikel
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: KC, MO
Default

If you bought your Z no more than 4 years ago, file a lawsuit. See my post above. Good luck.

Oh I just noticed you mentioned previous owner... sorry to say, but I think your toast (no options).
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:17 AM.