Tire FEATHERING: FYI
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Jacksonville, Florida
Lemon Law
Originally posted by kawataworks
For all of you new to this extremely long thread. Nissan still doe NOT have a solution to this problem. The TSB is just a way in which Nissan can hold ALL of us 350Z owners at bay, while they determine what to do in each case.
Some owners have trouble even getting Nissan to authorize new tires. Most get the first set of tires easily, but then try and get a Second set of front tires after they wear out even faster than the first set and Nissan is VERY SLOW and RELUCTANT to return phone calls and the dealer is told NOTHING!
Thus, you are told to just wait. You are given NO other course of action!
I have taken my car in 5 times to deal with this cupping issue! I have called NNA mulitiple times with NO return calls!
My first set of tires started to cupp at about 6000 miles. I had the TSB applied where they swap the tires from right to left and different alignment spec applied, which does NOTHING.
Then I was given front tires about 2000 miles later and the alignment done again. Then 3000 miles later the tires started showing signs of cupping, but instead of on the inside tread blocks, it is now mostly on the outside tread blocks. I took my car in again and Nissan had them apply yet another alignment spec. It still has NOT fixed the problem!!!
The tires are getting worse and cupping is starting to show on the inside tread blocks. The dealer has asked Nissan to authorize new tires, but Nissan has not responded. It has been a month since the dealer requested new tires for my car and Nissan has done NOTHING!!!
For all of you new to this extremely long thread. Nissan still doe NOT have a solution to this problem. The TSB is just a way in which Nissan can hold ALL of us 350Z owners at bay, while they determine what to do in each case.
Some owners have trouble even getting Nissan to authorize new tires. Most get the first set of tires easily, but then try and get a Second set of front tires after they wear out even faster than the first set and Nissan is VERY SLOW and RELUCTANT to return phone calls and the dealer is told NOTHING!
Thus, you are told to just wait. You are given NO other course of action!
I have taken my car in 5 times to deal with this cupping issue! I have called NNA mulitiple times with NO return calls!
My first set of tires started to cupp at about 6000 miles. I had the TSB applied where they swap the tires from right to left and different alignment spec applied, which does NOTHING.
Then I was given front tires about 2000 miles later and the alignment done again. Then 3000 miles later the tires started showing signs of cupping, but instead of on the inside tread blocks, it is now mostly on the outside tread blocks. I took my car in again and Nissan had them apply yet another alignment spec. It still has NOT fixed the problem!!!
The tires are getting worse and cupping is starting to show on the inside tread blocks. The dealer has asked Nissan to authorize new tires, but Nissan has not responded. It has been a month since the dealer requested new tires for my car and Nissan has done NOTHING!!!
Would the lemon law come in to affect? I mean if people just say enough already and start the process - doesn't that shock them (Nissan) into action since they'll have to eat the current car and replace? I'm on my second alignment and I'm still not happy. My left arm get's tired fighting the wheel to the point my left hand hurts every afternoon. The wheel hop is unacceptable and the loud noise at 30 mph and below is like I'm driving a Kenworth.
I guess the were to quick to release the "New" car last year.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Richmond VA
You are 100% correct,NNA does not have a fix for this problem. That is why we are demanding NNA buy our car back under the Lemon Law.
If they had a fix it would have been announced. There are to many cars effected by this problem.
NNA is stringing every one along with the promise of a fix. In my opinion they are just holding out until a majority of us are past our states Lemon law filing dates and the 12/12 warranty runs out.
When the word gets out about all of the problems with the cars I feel the resale is also going to suffer. That is why we chose to have NNA buy our car back. Then if they have a fix on the 04-05, I will buy another Z.
Mark
If they had a fix it would have been announced. There are to many cars effected by this problem.
NNA is stringing every one along with the promise of a fix. In my opinion they are just holding out until a majority of us are past our states Lemon law filing dates and the 12/12 warranty runs out.
When the word gets out about all of the problems with the cars I feel the resale is also going to suffer. That is why we chose to have NNA buy our car back. Then if they have a fix on the 04-05, I will buy another Z.
Mark
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 414
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From: Jacksonville, Florida
Called NNA.....
Originally posted by perauto1
You are 100% correct,NNA does not have a fix for this problem. That is why we are demanding NNA buy our car back under the Lemon Law.
If they had a fix it would have been announced. There are to many cars effected by this problem.
NNA is stringing every one along with the promise of a fix. In my opinion they are just holding out until a majority of us are past our states Lemon law filing dates and the 12/12 warranty runs out.
When the word gets out about all of the problems with the cars I feel the resale is also going to suffer. That is why we chose to have NNA buy our car back. Then if they have a fix on the 04-05, I will buy another Z.
Mark
You are 100% correct,NNA does not have a fix for this problem. That is why we are demanding NNA buy our car back under the Lemon Law.
If they had a fix it would have been announced. There are to many cars effected by this problem.
NNA is stringing every one along with the promise of a fix. In my opinion they are just holding out until a majority of us are past our states Lemon law filing dates and the 12/12 warranty runs out.
When the word gets out about all of the problems with the cars I feel the resale is also going to suffer. That is why we chose to have NNA buy our car back. Then if they have a fix on the 04-05, I will buy another Z.
Mark
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 35
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From: Oklahoma City
I have been following this problem since day one which I think was when someone posted pictures of cars in Dallas with 4k plus miles and something like 4 of 6 had this problem.
I had my first oil change at 4000 and checked the tires on the rack - no problem. I started hearing a noise at about 4300 and at 4600 the dealer confirmed feathering and did an alignment and tire switch.
Prior to the alignment my car tracked great in a straight line but had a disturbing push when high speed cornering. After the alignment it still tracks good and corners much better.
The noise never completely left and at 8500 the tires actually look and feel pretty good but the annoying noise at about 40 plus on a real smooth road is still making me unhappy.
I have driven a friends car with over 10.000 and can tell you I am not imagining the noise as his has no noise at all.
What puzzles me is that if there is a problem why does the car drive and track so darn good?
I had my first oil change at 4000 and checked the tires on the rack - no problem. I started hearing a noise at about 4300 and at 4600 the dealer confirmed feathering and did an alignment and tire switch.
Prior to the alignment my car tracked great in a straight line but had a disturbing push when high speed cornering. After the alignment it still tracks good and corners much better.
The noise never completely left and at 8500 the tires actually look and feel pretty good but the annoying noise at about 40 plus on a real smooth road is still making me unhappy.
I have driven a friends car with over 10.000 and can tell you I am not imagining the noise as his has no noise at all.
What puzzles me is that if there is a problem why does the car drive and track so darn good?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 22
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From: California, USA
Feathering
Does anyone have any idea how many Z's have been sold to date and what per centage have feathering problems.
Seems like Nissan should have statistics like this (probably all problems).
Is there anyway to find this info out???
Also is it a problem with the older VIN Nos. or all of them.
Does anyone have a relationship with a service manager who might give an honest answer. The service manager should be able to find out.
Seems like Nissan should have statistics like this (probably all problems).
Is there anyway to find this info out???
Also is it a problem with the older VIN Nos. or all of them.
Does anyone have a relationship with a service manager who might give an honest answer. The service manager should be able to find out.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 178
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From: Big Canoe, Georgia
I don't believe Nissan wants to admit it has a problem. What we need is an attorney with a Z that experienced the feathering and decides to "attack" Nissan with a class action suit. What we need is pubblicity to bring Nissan out of the closet so to speak.
I have been reading this thread as well. Some of the former members had Lemon Law cases under way. I wish we knew the results of those!!
I have been reading this thread as well. Some of the former members had Lemon Law cases under way. I wish we knew the results of those!!
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 72
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From: Richmond VA
Originally posted by Jim Reichard
I have been following this problem since day one which I think was when someone posted pictures of cars in Dallas with 4k plus miles and something like 4 of 6 had this problem.
I had my first oil change at 4000 and checked the tires on the rack - no problem. I started hearing a noise at about 4300 and at 4600 the dealer confirmed feathering and did an alignment and tire switch.
Prior to the alignment my car tracked great in a straight line but had a disturbing push when high speed cornering. After the alignment it still tracks good and corners much better.
The noise never completely left and at 8500 the tires actually look and feel pretty good but the annoying noise at about 40 plus on a real smooth road is still making me unhappy.
I have driven a friends car with over 10.000 and can tell you I am not imagining the noise as his has no noise at all.
What puzzles me is that if there is a problem why does the car drive and track so darn good?
I have been following this problem since day one which I think was when someone posted pictures of cars in Dallas with 4k plus miles and something like 4 of 6 had this problem.
I had my first oil change at 4000 and checked the tires on the rack - no problem. I started hearing a noise at about 4300 and at 4600 the dealer confirmed feathering and did an alignment and tire switch.
Prior to the alignment my car tracked great in a straight line but had a disturbing push when high speed cornering. After the alignment it still tracks good and corners much better.
The noise never completely left and at 8500 the tires actually look and feel pretty good but the annoying noise at about 40 plus on a real smooth road is still making me unhappy.
I have driven a friends car with over 10.000 and can tell you I am not imagining the noise as his has no noise at all.
What puzzles me is that if there is a problem why does the car drive and track so darn good?
Your car still tracks and drives well because only the inside edge of the tire is the problem. This is not the major contact patch of the tire. That is why you hear the noise more under braking. The front suspention compresses under load and the inside edge makes more contact with the road. The high speed noise on a smooth road is also caused by the compression of the front suspention and the fact the tire is still running on the inside edge of the tire due to the negitive camber.
The problem is a combination of the negitive camber and spring/shock rates. That is why adjusting the toe only works on some of the cars.
Nissan has not fixed the problem because the only way IMO is to change out all the front springs and shocks and install a camber/caster plate. Nissan is not going to spend that kind of money.It is cheaper to buy back a few a cars and replace a few thousand tires.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 28
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From: VA
perauto,
I spoke to you a month or so ago about the similarities of our tire feathering issues. We discussed the VA Lemon Law and the best way to approach a settlement with NNA. (Remember?)
Although I have not been adding anything to this thread lately I have continued to monitor everyones problems. I have also been waiting to see what was going to happen with my new front tires.
After the new ones were installed it was like getting a new car again. I actually thought my problems had been solved. Well now after 3000 miles on the new tires guess what. I find myself turning up the radio a little louder to drown out the sound of the tires feathering again.
Now it has come down to what to do next. Although the best answer would be for Nissan to buy back the car, I'm not sure I have the energy to go through all the hassles associated with fighting with them.
I know if I take the car back to the dealership they will say there is nothing wrong with it. I have taken it back once already since the new tires were installed and they had the nerve to tell me the tires were under inflated. They didn't even drive it.
Keep me posted if you don't mind with the results you get from Nissan. What happens to you may determine if I want to go through the hassles or just trade this car in and cut my losses.
Thanks, Tim.
TMCKandC@aol.com
KelleyTW@state.gov
I spoke to you a month or so ago about the similarities of our tire feathering issues. We discussed the VA Lemon Law and the best way to approach a settlement with NNA. (Remember?)
Although I have not been adding anything to this thread lately I have continued to monitor everyones problems. I have also been waiting to see what was going to happen with my new front tires.
After the new ones were installed it was like getting a new car again. I actually thought my problems had been solved. Well now after 3000 miles on the new tires guess what. I find myself turning up the radio a little louder to drown out the sound of the tires feathering again.
Now it has come down to what to do next. Although the best answer would be for Nissan to buy back the car, I'm not sure I have the energy to go through all the hassles associated with fighting with them.
I know if I take the car back to the dealership they will say there is nothing wrong with it. I have taken it back once already since the new tires were installed and they had the nerve to tell me the tires were under inflated. They didn't even drive it.
Keep me posted if you don't mind with the results you get from Nissan. What happens to you may determine if I want to go through the hassles or just trade this car in and cut my losses.
Thanks, Tim.
TMCKandC@aol.com
KelleyTW@state.gov
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 72
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From: Richmond VA
Tim
We filed for a buy back under the Lemon law last month,Nissan responded with a phone call. We are now waiting for them to set up a final repair attempt at Victory Nissan. The local NNA rep also wants to look at the car. They have about 6 days left under the 15 day VA Lemon Law guide lines to fix the car.
I will keep everyone posted here but if you or any one else want's to call me the number at the office is 804 784 8851.
Mark
We filed for a buy back under the Lemon law last month,Nissan responded with a phone call. We are now waiting for them to set up a final repair attempt at Victory Nissan. The local NNA rep also wants to look at the car. They have about 6 days left under the 15 day VA Lemon Law guide lines to fix the car.
I will keep everyone posted here but if you or any one else want's to call me the number at the office is 804 784 8851.
Mark
Re: Called NNA.....
Originally posted by kbsig106
Well, I tried to hold off, but I called NNA today and opened a case #. I explained that this has nothing to do with the dealership - actually I gave high marks to the service mgr. I told the lady I was on my second alignment and still not happy. She called the service mgr and informed him to contact NNA when the car shows up. I'm making the push for new tires, then if all else fails - lemon law.
Well, I tried to hold off, but I called NNA today and opened a case #. I explained that this has nothing to do with the dealership - actually I gave high marks to the service mgr. I told the lady I was on my second alignment and still not happy. She called the service mgr and informed him to contact NNA when the car shows up. I'm making the push for new tires, then if all else fails - lemon law.
It was not a lot of money, less than a set of tires for sure! I'd advise anyone looking at a new Z to fork up the extra given problems just don't show in a year sometimes.
At least my on-line message warranted a quick reply - likely computer generated, but I'll see how soon I hear from them.
Phone # & email address for NNA follows:
From:
<nnaconsumeraffairs@nissan-usa.com>
To:
<stracy01@mac.com>
Date:
Fri Aug 08, 2003 04:54:36 PM EDT
Subject:
Acknowledgement from nnaconsumeraffairs@nissan-usa.com
Thank you for contacting Nissan. A member of our Consumer Affairs department will be contacting you to follow up on your email message.
Please be certain to submit only one contact request on any given topic, as you will be contacted separately for each request you submit. If this is an urgent matter, please call (800)NISSAN-1.
Originally posted by perauto1
Tim
We filed for a buy back under the Lemon law last month,Nissan responded with a phone call. We are now waiting for them to set up a final repair attempt at Victory Nissan. The local NNA rep also wants to look at the car. They have about 6 days left under the 15 day VA Lemon Law guide lines to fix the car.
I will keep everyone posted here but if you or any one else want's to call me the number at the office is 804 784 8851.
Mark
Tim
We filed for a buy back under the Lemon law last month,Nissan responded with a phone call. We are now waiting for them to set up a final repair attempt at Victory Nissan. The local NNA rep also wants to look at the car. They have about 6 days left under the 15 day VA Lemon Law guide lines to fix the car.
I will keep everyone posted here but if you or any one else want's to call me the number at the office is 804 784 8851.
Mark
I saw today the "2004" Model is now out - I wonder if there are any changes impacting this problem.
Even with a "buy-back" option, I cannot imagine what else I'd rather drive than my Z for the money - are you getting a "replacement" or jumping away from the car totally?
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 72
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From: Richmond VA
Steve
We feel the same way. The Z is my wifes car. We both love the car but I refuse to own a car that needs tires every 3000 miles.
We want to buy another Z if they fix the problem. We just decided that we were not willing to keep holding out to see if NNA comes up with a Fix.
You are correct the 12/12 is the bumper to bumper coverage,after that the suspention and allignments are not covered by NNA.
I have lost faith in NNA. Money is money and I am not willing to gamble with a $35,000 car. If NNA cant fix it no one can.So I will let them buy it back and wait for the 05 or buy a G35 coupe?
We feel the same way. The Z is my wifes car. We both love the car but I refuse to own a car that needs tires every 3000 miles.
We want to buy another Z if they fix the problem. We just decided that we were not willing to keep holding out to see if NNA comes up with a Fix.
You are correct the 12/12 is the bumper to bumper coverage,after that the suspention and allignments are not covered by NNA.
I have lost faith in NNA. Money is money and I am not willing to gamble with a $35,000 car. If NNA cant fix it no one can.So I will let them buy it back and wait for the 05 or buy a G35 coupe?
Originally posted by perauto1
<snip>
I have lost faith in NNA. Money is money and I am not willing to gamble with a $35,000 car. If NNA cant fix it no one can.So I will let them buy it back and wait for the 05 or buy a G35 coupe?
<snip>
I have lost faith in NNA. Money is money and I am not willing to gamble with a $35,000 car. If NNA cant fix it no one can.So I will let them buy it back and wait for the 05 or buy a G35 coupe?
Good luck!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 178
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From: Big Canoe, Georgia
Per Auto 1:
Jim:
Thanks so much for the update. At 6000 I still can't see any feathering nor am I experiencing any tire noise when I break. I am so sensitive to this problem that I am checking my tires every 100 miles or so (Vin 5885).
I plan to drive the car from Atlanta to Charlotte this week and will check the wear when I return.
My dealership (service manager) says I do not have to file a claim, since we both have all of the service records and if anything happens, he says he will replace the front tires. What are your thoughts on that? Should we all file claims prior to the 12000 warranty? I also have an exteded 7 year 100K warranty as well, which I bought at the time I took delievery. I would assume this issue will be covered.
Please let me know if you feel I am incorrect.
Thanks,
Le
Jim:
Thanks so much for the update. At 6000 I still can't see any feathering nor am I experiencing any tire noise when I break. I am so sensitive to this problem that I am checking my tires every 100 miles or so (Vin 5885).
I plan to drive the car from Atlanta to Charlotte this week and will check the wear when I return.
My dealership (service manager) says I do not have to file a claim, since we both have all of the service records and if anything happens, he says he will replace the front tires. What are your thoughts on that? Should we all file claims prior to the 12000 warranty? I also have an exteded 7 year 100K warranty as well, which I bought at the time I took delievery. I would assume this issue will be covered.
Please let me know if you feel I am incorrect.
Thanks,
Le
Last edited by lew f; Aug 10, 2003 at 06:49 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 33
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From: Coppell, TX
I recently heard that all cars produced after December 2002 have had this problem corrected. Nissan made some kind of change to the suspension and springs as well as how they were transported on this ships. If you look a the tire feathering complaints they seem to be from people who joined this forum in early 2003 and prior adding some credance to the fix.
My question is: Are there any Z owners who have had this problem with build dates of Jan 2003 or later?
My question is: Are there any Z owners who have had this problem with build dates of Jan 2003 or later?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 35
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From: Oklahoma City
lew f
I do not feel you need to file a complaint as you are already on record as having had an alignment to cure a possible tire problem. As to whether the extended warranty covers alignments beyond 12 months and 12,000 miles I have no idea. You would think it would but you better check it out to know for sure.
My guess is you will have no further problems but obviously only time and miles will tell.
After I had my problem my friend had his aligned early on and at over 10,000 miles still has no problem.
My take on this thing is that the suspension as designed is too sensitive to spec. deviations that being if you are on the high or low side of certain specs. in the suspension you are likely to have problems. Otherwise why wouldn't all of the cars have this problem.
Add the less than wonderful tires to the mix and you are ready for trouble.
If we had started with a better tuned suspension and better tires there would be no problem iIMHO.
I do not feel you need to file a complaint as you are already on record as having had an alignment to cure a possible tire problem. As to whether the extended warranty covers alignments beyond 12 months and 12,000 miles I have no idea. You would think it would but you better check it out to know for sure.
My guess is you will have no further problems but obviously only time and miles will tell.
After I had my problem my friend had his aligned early on and at over 10,000 miles still has no problem.
My take on this thing is that the suspension as designed is too sensitive to spec. deviations that being if you are on the high or low side of certain specs. in the suspension you are likely to have problems. Otherwise why wouldn't all of the cars have this problem.
Add the less than wonderful tires to the mix and you are ready for trouble.
If we had started with a better tuned suspension and better tires there would be no problem iIMHO.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 178
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From: Big Canoe, Georgia
Jim Reichard:
Scott Smith:
Thank you both for the quick reply. My car was manufactured in February, 2003, so I hope the problem was limited to cars manufactured in 2002 as you suggested.
Obviously, my car came in out of alignment, but as I have said in other replys, the alignment seems to be holding.
I plan to continue monitoring these threads. I think the dialog and information is very helpful.
I PLAN TO ENJOY THIS AUTOMOBILE AS LONG AS I CAN!!!
Lew
Scott Smith:
Thank you both for the quick reply. My car was manufactured in February, 2003, so I hope the problem was limited to cars manufactured in 2002 as you suggested.
Obviously, my car came in out of alignment, but as I have said in other replys, the alignment seems to be holding.
I plan to continue monitoring these threads. I think the dialog and information is very helpful.
I PLAN TO ENJOY THIS AUTOMOBILE AS LONG AS I CAN!!!
Lew
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 22
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From: California, USA
Feathering
Scott Smith:
I bought my Z, 12/24/02, VIN 6663
Only driven 4800 miles-no problems with feathering YET. Do you have any details RE: VIN NOS. or how to tell date car was built.
And if they fixed the 2003 models, seems like they could recall and fix the 2002. This should be less than buying back (Lemon) or suffering bad publicity. Also Road & track is long term testing the 350 Z and theirs was a 2002. Wonder if they will have tire problems.
I bought my Z, 12/24/02, VIN 6663
Only driven 4800 miles-no problems with feathering YET. Do you have any details RE: VIN NOS. or how to tell date car was built.
And if they fixed the 2003 models, seems like they could recall and fix the 2002. This should be less than buying back (Lemon) or suffering bad publicity. Also Road & track is long term testing the 350 Z and theirs was a 2002. Wonder if they will have tire problems.