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You're going to want to get a copy of the Factory Service Manual (FSM). These can be found on Niccoclub for free. With some digging, you can find the full circuit diagrams and all the fuse locations for the convertible top.
Good Luck!
-Icer
I do not see any pictures, they would be very helpful!
Thanks
QUOTE=bluebadge;9138897]*** How To Repair 5th Bow Motor *** The model featured is my 2004 Touring Roadster, Current mileage is about 123k and I have never cleaned this motor or replaced the brushes before, so this is what you can expect if you are doing this for the first time.
Ok, so I've been wanting to do a how to guide for a while and this is a doozie! yup, 5th Bow Motor Repair!! If your 5th bow is getting stuck or not retracting your soft top in the storage compartment, the is a high probability that the brushes in the 5th bow motor are worn out. My how to will show you how to replace these brushes... The brushes can be bought online and they are the same ones used in the tutorial for fixing a sticking window motor, in fact this is pretty much the same as that, only easier!
What you'll need before you start.
1) A couple of hours spare time
2) A right angled (90 degree) phillips head screwdriver (or really short screwdriver)
3) Pair of suitable brushes got mine from Amazon (
)
4) Small socket set (not 100% needed but useful)
5) Soldering Iron, Flux and Solder
6) Scissors
7) Egg Box and Double Sided Sticky Tape (just messing!)
8) Electrical Contact Cleaner and Rag
9) Fine sand paper (the wives nail file would do!)
10) A couple of band aids just in case!
The whole process took me a couple of hours with help from domrvt (cheers dude!)
Ok first you want to cram yourself inside your Zee (if you are over 6ft I feel for you!) Everything from this point is in picture format so .....
Once I got the motor back in the car I re-attached the electrical harness and press the button for the roof, and voila! it worked, then put it all back together, now my roof works flawlessly! Hope this How To was of help to those (like me) who were facing a $1000 plus repair job! this only cost me a couple of hours and about $10.
Cheers, feel free to re-post this on any other forums that you know of where people are having the same issue!!!
If you have any questions please message me. This is my first how to, so feedback is welcome.
BlueBadge
PS You will notice that I didn't re-lube the components as I didn't have any grease on hand, but I definitely recommend it! (i'll do mine later!)[/QUOTE]
I just got my 5th bow motor removed. I'm guessing it is suffering from the same problem with the brushes, though I also think it may have a problem with an open/close position limit switch as well. However, can anyone comment on the state of the gunk on the gear in these photos? Is this much expected, so should I clean it and the cable it mates to before reassembling after the rebuild?
Also, one hint I'd add that I didn't come across is when removing the wiring connector, use a flat-head screwdriver. The "catch" to loosen is on the middle of the bottom-side of the connector (why could the designers not put it on top to make it more accessible!). Approach it from the right with the screwdriver blade pointed directly to the left. It should come off really easy. If you're applying force you didn't catch it right. Once I tried with the screwdriver it was easy.
UPDATE:
Removed the 5th bow actuator and sent it for repair. Unfortunately, when it was returned, it worked 1x then failed again. After removing it I disassembled it myself. One of the new brushes (both looked too narrow for the channels) was "racked" and stuck without springing into place. Additionally, the brushes didn't have any concaveness to the surface, so likely needed a little "burn in" (which of course also means some debris build up again from getting those brushes worn down quicker). Anyway, once reinstalled yet again, I have a working top again! Now to get the vinyl replaced for another $1800...
In the end, I think I could have done the complete cleaning and repair of the motor myself and saved the $75 from the Ebay service, but I wasn't entirely convinced I knew what I was doing especially when it came to the suggested sprays/chemicals for repairing. And I could have stocked up on some new soldering supplies for much less money! However, still no clue where to buy those brushes online. Anyone have a current source??? I worry the other motors will go out sometime...
Finding the right size DC brushes is crucial. If they sit with a lot of slop in their slots, which can lead to binding and even cause them to crack/break. It's completely normal for new brushes to need some time for bedding in. These motors look nearly identical to the power window units. I published a YT video on rebuilding those years ago. It's actually pretty simple. I strongly recommend purchasing brushes that are an exact match to the originals. A lot of people who offer "rebuild" services are using R/C car motor brushes. Those will work, but they are usually undersized and don't fit right.
UPDATE:
Removed the 5th bow actuator and sent it for repair. Unfortunately, when it was returned, it worked 1x then failed again. After removing it I disassembled it myself. One of the new brushes (both looked too narrow for the channels) was "racked" and stuck without springing into place. Additionally, the brushes didn't have any concaveness to the surface, so likely needed a little "burn in" (which of course also means some debris build up again from getting those brushes worn down quicker). Anyway, once reinstalled yet again, I have a working top again! Now to get the vinyl replaced for another $1800...
In the end, I think I could have done the complete cleaning and repair of the motor myself and saved the $75 from the Ebay service, but I wasn't entirely convinced I knew what I was doing especially when it came to the suggested sprays/chemicals for repairing. And I could have stocked up on some new soldering supplies for much less money! However, still no clue where to buy those brushes online. Anyone have a current source??? I worry the other motors will go out sometime...
A similar issue was posted in this thread about the brush(es) being stuck after an eBay rebuild service. It seems like these rebuild guys just throw in a new brush and don't check to see if it is properly seated or they don't bind. A little light grinding/sanding seems to do the trick.
Personally, I have not done the rebuild, but these brushes that were previously linked seem to be popular and compatible. The reviews appear to confirm as well.
Yeah, those are R/C car motor brushes. I'm sure you can make them work, but the original brush design is different. The shunts come off the brushes at a 90-degree angle, this is important because of the tight packaging with the brush retainers and springs.
I used THIS or THIS from Eurton Electric. I believe the OEM brush dimensions are 3/16" x 3/16" x 1/2" (H x W x L). In decimal that would be 0.18" x 0.18" x 0.5". I found Eurton Electric from simply searching around for electric motor parts companies. I rebuilt my motors and made the YT video back in 2014, I cannot find my purchase records for the brushes or my notes on the exact original brush dimensions. The dimensions I'm giving are based on memory & gut feel. I'm confident these are the correct dimensions. The bottom line is that these brushes match the OEM units. I'm using the same window motors that I rebuilt back in 2014 today, no issues. I have replaced the regulators once.
Cheers!
-Icer
My guess is the brush assembly is binding somewhere in the housing or the worm gear just needs a twist to get the teeth to mesh. Need to see more photos of your completed brush assembly.
-Icer
Actually, the washer at the bottom of the hole where the worm screw goes in seems to be out of alignment, and I can't get it back in... apart from cutting everything off to put it back, I don't see any other way. I sent it to someone who does repairs to see if he can do anything with his knowledge.
