CD009 Failure - input shaft & bearing
08-15-2014, 05:31 AM
#1
CD009 Failure - input shaft & bearing
Z1 Motorsports (in GA) is about to replace my 5th manual transmission with a 6th. MY 5TH WAS A CD009.
I took my 2004 350Z to them for repair because:
1. The clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, flywheel, and pilot bearing needed to be replaced - they showed the typical "worn-out" signs.
2. The transmission did make a huge amount of noise while in neutral and sitting still.
After replacing ALL the clutch components, and testing the car, it was clear that the noise at idle/parked/in neutral WAS STILL THERE.
Z1 removed the transmission and determined that the input shaft and related bearing was making the noise. They suggested that we put in a brand new CD009. I told them to replace the Master and slave cylinders as well.
The first 5 transmissions were replaced by Nissan under warranty. The #5 CD009 did last about 3 years, which is much longer than any of its predecessors.
Unlike transmissions #1 - #4 having the synchronizer problem , the #5 CD009 had an INPUT BEARING problem. It made A LOT OF NOISE and required that the clutch peddle be pressed to the floor (and held for a brief moment) in order to have a smooth shift.
With only 55,000 miles on this car, it will have had 6 transmissions in it. I am hoping that by replacing everything, that I will not have anymore problems.
What would cause the bearing on the input shaft to fail ?
(Oil was changed with Redline 4 once. Level was always fine)
(Yes I drive this car hard, but no harder than the dozen+ other manual transmission vehicles that I have owned in the past 40 years)
I took my 2004 350Z to them for repair because:
1. The clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, flywheel, and pilot bearing needed to be replaced - they showed the typical "worn-out" signs.
2. The transmission did make a huge amount of noise while in neutral and sitting still.
After replacing ALL the clutch components, and testing the car, it was clear that the noise at idle/parked/in neutral WAS STILL THERE.
Z1 removed the transmission and determined that the input shaft and related bearing was making the noise. They suggested that we put in a brand new CD009. I told them to replace the Master and slave cylinders as well.
The first 5 transmissions were replaced by Nissan under warranty. The #5 CD009 did last about 3 years, which is much longer than any of its predecessors.
Unlike transmissions #1 - #4 having the synchronizer problem , the #5 CD009 had an INPUT BEARING problem. It made A LOT OF NOISE and required that the clutch peddle be pressed to the floor (and held for a brief moment) in order to have a smooth shift.
With only 55,000 miles on this car, it will have had 6 transmissions in it. I am hoping that by replacing everything, that I will not have anymore problems.
What would cause the bearing on the input shaft to fail ?
(Oil was changed with Redline 4 once. Level was always fine)
(Yes I drive this car hard, but no harder than the dozen+ other manual transmission vehicles that I have owned in the past 40 years)
Last edited by JCat; 08-18-2014 at 05:30 AM.
08-15-2014, 07:29 AM
#2
Typically a worn pilot bushing.
These transmissions are just noisy, and will always have some degree of cement truck sound. Dont forget that most of the noise is the transmission itself chattering, not necessarily the input bearing.
So youre telling us you bought a whole new trans on account of some noise?
What type of flywheel are you running?
What exactly were the "worn out signs" that caused you to take the car in in the first place? Your description isnt very, well, descriptive.
If you bang the gears all the time on these trans, which is your right to do lol, Im not surprised you are on the 6th. So many variables, is it your DD, how many miles on the car, describe how you downshift, describe the sound more, not just "A LOT OF NOISE," etc etc??
These transmissions are just noisy, and will always have some degree of cement truck sound. Dont forget that most of the noise is the transmission itself chattering, not necessarily the input bearing.
So youre telling us you bought a whole new trans on account of some noise?
What type of flywheel are you running?
What exactly were the "worn out signs" that caused you to take the car in in the first place? Your description isnt very, well, descriptive.
If you bang the gears all the time on these trans, which is your right to do lol, Im not surprised you are on the 6th. So many variables, is it your DD, how many miles on the car, describe how you downshift, describe the sound more, not just "A LOT OF NOISE," etc etc??
08-15-2014, 08:05 AM
#3
Both Z1 and I noticed that it was slightly more difficult to shift than normal. Since I am lucky and can afford to "make things right" we decided to install a new transmission. I will admit, that it was not 100% necessary.
Flywheel before Z1 was stock . . . . . . after Z1 is similar to the wolf aftermarket type
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=2405
The old clutch was beginning to slip.
Not a DD. "Bang the gears" = occasionally guilty. I refrain from any kind of aggressive downshifting . . . . as a result of my wonderful luck with this car.
Flywheel before Z1 was stock . . . . . . after Z1 is similar to the wolf aftermarket type
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=2405
The old clutch was beginning to slip.
Not a DD. "Bang the gears" = occasionally guilty. I refrain from any kind of aggressive downshifting . . . . as a result of my wonderful luck with this car.
08-15-2014, 09:54 AM
#4
Are you boosted? Do you drag/launch heavily often? You situation is definitely odd. Still not sure if there is some underlying mechanical issue or if user error is a factor (not throwing down Im just saying - 6 trans is out of the ordinary and in my years Ive never burned a clutch on stock power levels in ANY vehicle). Downshifting properly (properly timed rev matches and heel/toe) shouldnt subject the synchros to additional wear.
Problem is that a worn input shaft bearing is again an ambiguous statement because the type of wear is what is important. Does the shaft demonstrate any excessive axial or radial play. Noise is technically just an inconvenience unless there is bind involved, which you could have tested on the old trans by just spinning it with your hand once it was out of the car.
Problem is that a worn input shaft bearing is again an ambiguous statement because the type of wear is what is important. Does the shaft demonstrate any excessive axial or radial play. Noise is technically just an inconvenience unless there is bind involved, which you could have tested on the old trans by just spinning it with your hand once it was out of the car.
08-15-2014, 11:09 AM
#5
I am not boosted.
Anyone can say it is driver error if they want to, but like I said earlier, I am not a teenager who has no experience and drives like an idiot.
If I had to guess, I suspect that NISSAN should have replaced the clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, AND PILOT BEARING during one of the previous transmission failures.
This time we replaced EVERYTHING, including the master and slave cylinders.
Ideally we would like to know what caused all of this to happen.
Anyone can say it is driver error if they want to, but like I said earlier, I am not a teenager who has no experience and drives like an idiot.
If I had to guess, I suspect that NISSAN should have replaced the clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, AND PILOT BEARING during one of the previous transmission failures.
This time we replaced EVERYTHING, including the master and slave cylinders.
Ideally we would like to know what caused all of this to happen.
08-15-2014, 12:43 PM
#7
I understand, it definitely sucks 6 trans in 55k is borderline insanity...but Im still not even sure there was a problem, per your description, with the transmission you just replaced. Not saying Im questioning Z1 but they are a shop just like any other...
I can definitely see how a lazy/inexperienced tech would forego replacing the pilot bushing...they have never come out easily for me, not even with a slide hammer (grease method was laughable and never even came close to working). Each and every time I have resorted to drilling the old one out (intimidating at first but works like a charm).
Hopefully you didnt do the first 4 swaps at the same shop
Do you not normally press it all the way to the floor?
I can definitely see how a lazy/inexperienced tech would forego replacing the pilot bushing...they have never come out easily for me, not even with a slide hammer (grease method was laughable and never even came close to working). Each and every time I have resorted to drilling the old one out (intimidating at first but works like a charm).
Hopefully you didnt do the first 4 swaps at the same shop
Do you not normally press it all the way to the floor?
Last edited by guitman32; 08-15-2014 at 02:56 PM.
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08-15-2014, 05:42 PM
#8
New Member
Regards, JCat: A defective OEM dual mass flywheel (DMF) ate the transmission in my '08. Started with input shaft bearing noise at around 12k mi., at 18k a vibration at 2400 & 4000 rpm when gearing down. Brought to the attention of the dealer, they said "they all do that". 5th gear syncro started going at 46k, NNA approved replacement one day after 5 yr. warranty expired.
New transmission also vibrated on downshift at the same rpms. Immediately replaced clutch, pressure plate & flywheel with South Bend DXD & black "Race" forged flywheel. ZSpeed's Wilwood master & HD CSC while at it, ran like a sewing machine.
On examination the OEM DMF "Rocked & Clocked". Relative to the primary mass, the secondary mass rotated by hand far past the 10mm spec for full load, it also rocked several mm side to side. The nylon bushing that oriented the primary to the secondary was out of tolerance allowing the flywheel to run out of balance.
IMHO, loosing the DMF is a good move.
New transmission also vibrated on downshift at the same rpms. Immediately replaced clutch, pressure plate & flywheel with South Bend DXD & black "Race" forged flywheel. ZSpeed's Wilwood master & HD CSC while at it, ran like a sewing machine.
On examination the OEM DMF "Rocked & Clocked". Relative to the primary mass, the secondary mass rotated by hand far past the 10mm spec for full load, it also rocked several mm side to side. The nylon bushing that oriented the primary to the secondary was out of tolerance allowing the flywheel to run out of balance.
IMHO, loosing the DMF is a good move.
08-15-2014, 06:09 PM
#10
Regards, JCat: A defective OEM dual mass flywheel (DMF) ate the transmission in my '08. Started with input shaft bearing noise at around 12k mi., at 18k a vibration at 2400 & 4000 rpm when gearing down. Brought to the attention of the dealer, they said "they all do that". 5th gear syncro started going at 46k, NNA approved replacement one day after 5 yr. warranty expired.
New transmission also vibrated on downshift at the same rpms. Immediately replaced clutch, pressure plate & flywheel with South Bend DXD & black "Race" forged flywheel. ZSpeed's Wilwood master & HD CSC while at it, ran like a sewing machine.
On examination the OEM DMF "Rocked & Clocked". Relative to the primary mass, the secondary mass rotated by hand far past the 10mm spec for full load, it also rocked several mm side to side. The nylon bushing that oriented the primary to the secondary was out of tolerance allowing the flywheel to run out of balance.
IMHO, loosing the DMF is a good move.
New transmission also vibrated on downshift at the same rpms. Immediately replaced clutch, pressure plate & flywheel with South Bend DXD & black "Race" forged flywheel. ZSpeed's Wilwood master & HD CSC while at it, ran like a sewing machine.
On examination the OEM DMF "Rocked & Clocked". Relative to the primary mass, the secondary mass rotated by hand far past the 10mm spec for full load, it also rocked several mm side to side. The nylon bushing that oriented the primary to the secondary was out of tolerance allowing the flywheel to run out of balance.
IMHO, loosing the DMF is a good move.
Now that I have a "normal" (not dual mass) flywheel I can feel a huge difference in how the car feels and drives. It revs much easier and the clutch engages with a more solid feel.
08-15-2014, 07:00 PM
#11
New Member
Hi, JCat: Hope your difficulties are resolved. If a defective DMF is the cause of your transmission failures, it's amazing that your technicians failed to put 2 & 2 together, identify the common denominator & inspect your OEM flywheel. With the transmission out it takes about 10 min. If this is the case, that's five previous fails.
If you chose a light-weight flywheel I know you're enjoying the additional low gear performance. Good luck with #6.
If you chose a light-weight flywheel I know you're enjoying the additional low gear performance. Good luck with #6.
08-15-2014, 09:13 PM
#12
I've had the same thing happen, but only in regards to the bad synchros. I'm getting my third transmission in this week. My first transmission had a bad 2nd gear synchro issue and the second transmission had a bad 3rd gear synchro issue. Hopefully, your 6th trans is the charm.
08-16-2014, 08:01 AM
#13
Regards, JCat: A defective OEM dual mass flywheel (DMF) ate the transmission in my '08. Started with input shaft bearing noise at around 12k mi., at 18k a vibration at 2400 & 4000 rpm when gearing down. Brought to the attention of the dealer, they said "they all do that". 5th gear syncro started going at 46k, NNA approved replacement one day after 5 yr. warranty expired.
New transmission also vibrated on downshift at the same rpms. Immediately replaced clutch, pressure plate & flywheel with South Bend DXD & black "Race" forged flywheel. ZSpeed's Wilwood master & HD CSC while at it, ran like a sewing machine.
On examination the OEM DMF "Rocked & Clocked". Relative to the primary mass, the secondary mass rotated by hand far past the 10mm spec for full load, it also rocked several mm side to side. The nylon bushing that oriented the primary to the secondary was out of tolerance allowing the flywheel to run out of balance.
IMHO, loosing the DMF is a good move.
New transmission also vibrated on downshift at the same rpms. Immediately replaced clutch, pressure plate & flywheel with South Bend DXD & black "Race" forged flywheel. ZSpeed's Wilwood master & HD CSC while at it, ran like a sewing machine.
On examination the OEM DMF "Rocked & Clocked". Relative to the primary mass, the secondary mass rotated by hand far past the 10mm spec for full load, it also rocked several mm side to side. The nylon bushing that oriented the primary to the secondary was out of tolerance allowing the flywheel to run out of balance.
IMHO, loosing the DMF is a good move.
Last edited by guitman32; 08-21-2014 at 01:20 PM.
08-16-2014, 10:30 AM
#14
Registered User
This is disheartening to read, considering my CD004 has ~140k on it, 128 of it with the oem dmf, 12k with a billet steel flywheel.. and shows no notchiness or abnormal operation. I still disagree with the choice of a dual mass flywheel from factory, even though the car is technically in the grand tourer category, the rest of the car makes a **** load of noise as it is so idk why they bothered to try and quiet it down lol. Id rather have a single mass any day of the week, for longevity and the feel of it is night and day like a lot of people say, but then again alot of people dont like to feel direct feedback from their driveline lol..
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