Cranks but no start...any advice?
#1
Cranks but no start...any advice?
I have an NA 2003 6MT with 147k miles on it.
There are zero codes to pull, although ECM connection is okay with OBDII scanner.
I did see the CEL come on a few times in the last few months, but every time I checked it, the ECM had no faults stored, and went away not long after.
Mods that may matter
JWT popcharger
Invidia Gemini
Berk HFC
Uprev Tuned
A few weeks ago, the car become hesitant to take gas up a hill and I struggled to get it make any power. Luckily, I was very close to home and able to drift it in my driveway as the car finally died. I had someone spray a tiny bit of ether into the TB while I cranked it. It wanted to start, so I assumed replace fuel pump go from there. I ordered a new Precice brand fuel pump and while I waited, disassembled and cleaned the TB, as well as the intake cone filter.
New pump arrived, I changed it out, car started right away. Hurray! problem fixed right?
Fast-forward one week, pretty much the exact same thing happened to me coming home from work. Felt like I redlined on WOT 5k, It ran for a few miles longer very poorly and throttle response got worse and worse until it shut off altogether.
I turned it back on, it ran for another half mile, and died again. Started it back up a third time, got about 100 feet. Kept getting a little further but eventually it would not start at all. Car was towed back home after this.
I thought, since the car responded so well to a new fuel pump the first time, and what I bought was not Hitachi OEM, I started the return process and on my replacement and decided to order a new OEM.
Second fuel pump arrives, I install it in the car, and this time it didn't change anything. The pump primes, but it will just crank forever and only try to start with the help of a little bit of ether.
Next step is to tear down to the fuel rails, but I will need to buy an adapter to fit it for a pressure test correct?
Any ideas guys? I am somewhat handy but not the worlds greatest mechanic either. I really don't want to take it to the stealership....
There are zero codes to pull, although ECM connection is okay with OBDII scanner.
I did see the CEL come on a few times in the last few months, but every time I checked it, the ECM had no faults stored, and went away not long after.
Mods that may matter
JWT popcharger
Invidia Gemini
Berk HFC
Uprev Tuned
A few weeks ago, the car become hesitant to take gas up a hill and I struggled to get it make any power. Luckily, I was very close to home and able to drift it in my driveway as the car finally died. I had someone spray a tiny bit of ether into the TB while I cranked it. It wanted to start, so I assumed replace fuel pump go from there. I ordered a new Precice brand fuel pump and while I waited, disassembled and cleaned the TB, as well as the intake cone filter.
New pump arrived, I changed it out, car started right away. Hurray! problem fixed right?
Fast-forward one week, pretty much the exact same thing happened to me coming home from work. Felt like I redlined on WOT 5k, It ran for a few miles longer very poorly and throttle response got worse and worse until it shut off altogether.
I turned it back on, it ran for another half mile, and died again. Started it back up a third time, got about 100 feet. Kept getting a little further but eventually it would not start at all. Car was towed back home after this.
I thought, since the car responded so well to a new fuel pump the first time, and what I bought was not Hitachi OEM, I started the return process and on my replacement and decided to order a new OEM.
Second fuel pump arrives, I install it in the car, and this time it didn't change anything. The pump primes, but it will just crank forever and only try to start with the help of a little bit of ether.
Next step is to tear down to the fuel rails, but I will need to buy an adapter to fit it for a pressure test correct?
Any ideas guys? I am somewhat handy but not the worlds greatest mechanic either. I really don't want to take it to the stealership....
#3
Youre probably throwing parts at it.
I would look into your cam shaft position sensors and possibly the crank shaft position sensors. Only buy OEM Nissan sensors - anything from the autoparts store will not last very long.
if you honestly dont know your way around the car than just take it to a 3rd party mechanic - let him fix it right the first time!
I would look into your cam shaft position sensors and possibly the crank shaft position sensors. Only buy OEM Nissan sensors - anything from the autoparts store will not last very long.
if you honestly dont know your way around the car than just take it to a 3rd party mechanic - let him fix it right the first time!
#4
I have had codes for both camshaft sensor banks in the past and they threw codes and showed VCD and slip in both times.
They were not OEM but they never gave me problems so far, and they are easy to replace.
Left out that I did infact replace the crankshaft sensor with a genuine Nissan one already because i found at least one case where it failed and didnt throw codes.
I can try and test the camshaft sensors but they are both fairly new, at about 20-30K miles. One of them I actually had to solder a new harness on because replacing the sensor wasn't enough.
Also, I am in no rush to pay to have it fixed it, have an MS3 as a backup. I do infact know my way around this car fairly well, I am just a learning self-mechanic who enjoys being able to understand how my car works. If I truly meet my wits end, I will take it somewhere. But this is why I am asking for advise, what would you do?
They were not OEM but they never gave me problems so far, and they are easy to replace.
Left out that I did infact replace the crankshaft sensor with a genuine Nissan one already because i found at least one case where it failed and didnt throw codes.
I can try and test the camshaft sensors but they are both fairly new, at about 20-30K miles. One of them I actually had to solder a new harness on because replacing the sensor wasn't enough.
Also, I am in no rush to pay to have it fixed it, have an MS3 as a backup. I do infact know my way around this car fairly well, I am just a learning self-mechanic who enjoys being able to understand how my car works. If I truly meet my wits end, I will take it somewhere. But this is why I am asking for advise, what would you do?
Last edited by JustSaiyan; 09-07-2019 at 09:19 PM.
#5
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,467
Likes: 1,317
From: Aurora, Colorado
"Fast-forward one week, pretty much the exact same thing happened to me coming home from work. Felt like I redlined on WOT 5k, It ran for a few miles longer very poorly and throttle response got worse and worse until it shut off altogether."
Please explain what you mean by "redlined on WOT 5K"? Did you miss a shift?
Please explain what you mean by "redlined on WOT 5K"? Did you miss a shift?
#6
"Fast-forward one week, pretty much the exact same thing happened to me coming home from work. Felt like I redlined on WOT 5k, It ran for a few miles longer very poorly and throttle response got worse and worse until it shut off altogether."
Please explain what you mean by "redlined on WOT 5K"? Did you miss a shift?
Please explain what you mean by "redlined on WOT 5K"? Did you miss a shift?
I had to question myself if I was at redline or not when it happened, I needed to finish the pass and didn't really have time to stare at the tach.
#7
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,467
Likes: 1,317
From: Aurora, Colorado
The Z uses a soft rev limiter when exceeding redline. If you felt a loss of power after making this pass (and were well below redline) and the car then began running rough, it could be a much more serious mechanical problem. You don't mention how mechanically skilled you are, but I'd suggest doing a leakdown and/or compression test to see what kind of condition your VQ is in.
Last edited by dkmura; 09-08-2019 at 06:53 PM.
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#8
The Z uses a soft rev limiter when exceeding redline. If you felt a loss of power after making this pass (and were well below redline) and the car then began running rough, it could be a much more serious mechanical problem. You don't mention how mechanically skilled you are, but I'd suggest doing a leakdown and/or compression test to see what kind of condition your VQ is in.
Air is fine, spark is fine, compression and timing appear to be fine considering if it starts, it idles/revs fine.
Although, I admit that if I had tried to take it for a drive, putting the car under load would have probably stalled it fairly quickly.
I will check the fuel pressure and rule out fuel, after that its onto compression/timing.
Appreciate the input
It seems similar to a sensor failing, but those generally throw codes. Also, when the sensor fails, doesn't the ECM prevent spark?
Therefore, spraying a dab of ether would rule out ECM safety system due to sensor.
Last edited by JustSaiyan; 09-08-2019 at 09:15 PM.
#11
So, I tore down to the fuel rails today and there is no fuel coming out the damper into the fuel rail port.
I had a friend try to start the car with the damper is disconnected and it was bone dry. The rail line itself has some fuel, but the injectors are not being pressurized.
At this point, are there any other possibilities than a bad fuel pump or a bad ECM?
My fuel pump primes, and this is the second one I have put in now during this problem period.
I had a friend try to start the car with the damper is disconnected and it was bone dry. The rail line itself has some fuel, but the injectors are not being pressurized.
At this point, are there any other possibilities than a bad fuel pump or a bad ECM?
My fuel pump primes, and this is the second one I have put in now during this problem period.
#12
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,467
Likes: 1,317
From: Aurora, Colorado
Enough- your Z has been down for about a month. You haven't been able to figure it out and there's only so much help we can provide. It's time to bring in a pro IMHO.
#14
Could the fuel level sensor gotten stuck when you installed your new fuel pump and it's saying you have fuel and you don't? Ask me how I know this is a thing. Also the fuel pressure on these cars is internally regulated by the pump isn't it? I would say you likely got a defective pump over a ECU issue.
Last edited by MotaBike Mike; 10-13-2019 at 09:11 PM.
#15
Could the fuel level sensor gotten stuck when you installed your new fuel pump and it's saying you have fuel and you don't? Ask me how I know this is a thing. Also the fuel pressure on these cars is internally regulated by the pump isn't it? I would say you likely got a defective pump over a ECU issue.
So the original case of no start but crank looked more related to the sending unit itself, but yes they replaced a level sensor too.
#16
The Saga continues. New engine was put in with 55k miles. Car ran great for about a week and now it's fuel staved again. I didn't let Nissan replace the engine because they quoted 5k total.
Everyone is stumped, I guess it goes back to Nissan but they will find some other BS. Thousands spent and car still wont run...very depressing. I hope no one else out there ever has to go through this.
Everyone is stumped, I guess it goes back to Nissan but they will find some other BS. Thousands spent and car still wont run...very depressing. I hope no one else out there ever has to go through this.
#17
If I read correctly in your earlier post you said you dissembled and cleaned the throttle body. From everything I've read over 8 years nothing good ever comes from that. Are you still trying to run that same TB?
#18
No, the throttle body is the one that came on the new engine. The shop would drive it every day and let it run to see if it has problems. They failed to use my engine harness from my 03 though, so right now they had to leave the O2 sensors unplugged. This is a problem in it's own, but still, it's more or less the exact same thing it was before i replaced the engine. Next they get to put my harness back in, but even then i doubt it will change the intermittent fuel starvation. Nissan replaced two "Fuel Sending Units", something in each hole behind the seats. So i guess I will take it there, but car has to be wired right first or they will same some other BS.
#20
Currently, only the front two coming out of the manifold are disconnected. This is downstream correct?
From what I understand, it should just be detected by the ECU as 0v and create a very rich mixture.
However, my problem appears it's far too lean to run at all. Only spraying a shot of ether into the throttle body is currently the only way to get it to even want to start anymore.
We did this just to see if the original problem of cranks but no fuel is back.
From what I understand, it should just be detected by the ECU as 0v and create a very rich mixture.
However, my problem appears it's far too lean to run at all. Only spraying a shot of ether into the throttle body is currently the only way to get it to even want to start anymore.
We did this just to see if the original problem of cranks but no fuel is back.