Yeah but I can actually hear knock without headphones, software or anything. If you read Mike's post again, I showed him what I thought the noise was and he showed me that it was impossible for that to be it and it was the engine knocking. To actually hear the knock while driving shows how bad it is. haha alright I am done with this thread seriously this time.

 

Bryce, nice to meet you in person. I'm sure you will get the Z straightened out one way or another.

By the way, the 3" Ti duals on your Vortech VQ sound sick!!

I hope everyone has a safe and happy Thanksgiving.

 

Bryce, I am extremely shocked and disappointed by your choice of ways to resolve the issues you have with my tuning and work without even attempting to consult me prior to generating a public post.

Bryce if you had approached me directly about your concerns I would have not only checked into them and fixed anything related to our install at no charge. I would have also had the opportunity to educate you about my tuning methodologies. Up until YESTERDAY you and I were exchanging anywhere from 1 to 8 PM’s a day as well as multiple phone calls throughout the week. I would call this a very comfortable relationship so I am in complete shock and awe that you would post your concerns like this without consulting with me. You have consulted with me on every future mod that you are thinking about for your car. The change seems very drastic.

If you believed there were problems with the car why would you not attempt to contact me first so I would at least have a chance to respond?

I can tell you with 100% confidence that you car is not knocking. Your dyno at AAM actually PROVES that it was not knocking. Your car has been running exceptionally well with NO complaints from you whatsoever up until yesterday. Now suddenly your car is not running well? The coincidence is alarming.

Here is a copy of your dyno chart. As you can clearly see the AFR’s are very clean other then a small bobble (at 4900 RPM) that I was not able to tune out due to the switch over from the stock ECU to the UTEC. Fortunately for tuning purposes the DynoDynamics is actually able to measure these variances very accurately under constant and adjustable load.





As explained to you previously and as I believed you to understand, you have a 12 month Unlimited Mile Piston and Rod Warranty. This means that it doesn’t matter what happens if it does on the off chance blow we will take care of it once a proper diagnosis is performed. No other company in the country offers this type of warranty. I think that speaks volumes about our dedication to customer service as well as the pride I take in my work and its quality.

This is the dyno of a car that is “knocking hardcore”. As you can see the huge dip in power is when the UTEC pulls timing when it detects knock. The red line is when knock occurs and the blue line is when the pull is clean.





The dyno chart you provided shows nothing like that and I see no signs of knock. In my professional opinion, if you were knocking as badly as you have come to believe then your motor would have blown long ago.

Again, in my professional opinion, I do not feel your power is outrageous for the boost level you are at. This is the optimal operating range for your particular car.

I’m not sure if you have kept up with all the development we have done over the past year but we have sacrificed and worked many hours to research and develop a way to offer this warranty to our customers. We have simulated many scenarios with our test cars and encountered many more real world scenarios with the customers we deal with every day as all of their driving needs and goals are different. We continued to test and research at lower boost levels We also continue to keep stock motors in inventory if on the rare occasion that someone does actually damage their motor within the 12 month period we have it ready for efficient turnaround.

From what I have seen this is a deception that an inertia dyno will create because it does not load the car in the same way the street or a load based dyno will. As you can see the Dynojet chart goes extremely rich over 5500 rpm’s. This is because the motor is actually beginning to out accelerate the dyno roller which has no resistance of it own other then its weight.

If you car was running that rich you would be complaining of misfiring and stumbling under WOT.

If you had contacted me and expressed your time concerns you would know that we offer to pick up customers vehicles in certain situations to make things easier for them. We also offer a loaner car if needed. I’m sure we could find some way to get your car to the shop in the 6 months between now and HIN.

So my tune is making smooth consistent power and is knocking? But another professional tuner claims they could make more power and not knock? This is physically not possible. There are two forms of detonation. In the industry we use them interchangeably but there is actually specific terms that explain what is going on during the combustion cycle. Knock is considered a detonation event that occurs AFTER the plug fires. This type of detonation is caused by hot spots in the cylinder and bad gas. PRE IGNITION is when the air/fuel mixture ignites BEFORE the spark plug has a chance to fire.

Pre-Ignition is what blows motors. It causes the rods and pistons to endure pressures well outside its standards. It will bend the rod and snap it or it will crack the piston or even melt it.

Knock on the other hand in small amounts can actually be HELPFUL to the motor. Slight knock will vibrate carbon deposits off the valves, piston top and other internal components, eliminating potential hot spots and excess weight.

Also, your power level is about 8 to 10% lower then AAM’s claimed possible max. (move previous to the end of last paragraph) As we understand it less power means less likely to blow. Then we understand that blowing a motor has to do with pre-ignition and pre-ignition is due to overly advanced timing. But you make more power with more timing. So where does that leave us? I realize that this may be over simplified and practically unintelligible due to my inability to take the needed time to explain all the cause and effects of engine management but here is the simple break down.

More Power = More Knock (or potential to knock) at the same boost level

Less Power = Less Likely to Knock at the same boost level

Because I am TRULY dedicated to customer service I would like to extend the following offer (which was always on the table but I feel the need to restate it for you).
If you can bring your car to the shop (at your convenience of course) I will actually put you in the car and let you watch as we tune the car. Throughout the entire process I will explain and teach you exactly what I am doing, why I am doing it and what the cause and effect is of different changes. If you are concerned about issues with knock occurring at lower RPM’s I will take care of that. I am not willing to publicly share my personal tuning methodologies but we will essentially generate a completely new map together.

 

This might explain the stellar HP curve produced by AAM even though there was "hardcore knock". Someone has some splainin' to do. I guess Ryan (Tengai) was right; Something did smell fishy and rightfully so.

 

I beg to differ. Although your explination at face value seems resonable there is a small flaw. If the motor was actually knocking the stock ECU has not only its own knock sensor to detect this it also has the ability to adjust timing by +/- 15% based on knock feed back as well as other sensors. This would clear any timing related detonation issues. Also, no other company has made this claim or had any concerns over it. I have quite a few Rev-Up motors using the UTEC making in excess of 390 DynoDynamics RWHP with no problems whatsoever. Something that should be interesting to note is that due to the way the a DynoJet picks up the ignition signal if there is pre-ignition it will generally show in the dyno chart as a choppy or broken HP/TRQ pattern. Did you note this on the chart?

 

My check engine light has come on non-stop ever since I got supercharger put on for "engine mis-fire" if that helps anything/anyone. Dave from what we have talked about you realize my car is going to be mainly show and all I want right now is for the car to run with no issues and to clear my mind of any worries about my car blowing. I will be going 11psi with meth injection and I hope for that to be my last re-tune, major performance change for a good while.

 

This is a very common issue with larger injectors. I thought we discussed this over the phone when you brought it up a few months back. As with all aftermarket components when you add 100+ HP to the motor there are certian things that come up that have no effect on the performance of the car but are strictly emmisions related. Suprisingly some cars are worse then others and the issue is random in that regard.

 

You and I are on the same page! My attitude has never changed from this point. But I can't fix issue that I don't know about. When can you bring the car in so that I can go over everything with you?

 

This is where you message me man, this conversation between us shouldn't have been as public. I understand you are disappointed and in shock but honestly I feel that should have been brought to me from the getgo. I messed up by not consulting you first and didn't realize my post came off as an insult to you. None the less the car is garaged for now until my parts come in to get put on. I am dealing with so many people/parts for my shows, etc. My time is so limited I can barely make it to the gym 2 days a week opposed to 7 like I was before winter started. I can't even find time to do what I need to on a daily basis and to now think about not being able to drive my car without extreme fear sucks... hard. What is said between us now remains private.

 

With factory cats and proper tuning, there shouldn't be a check engine light for mis-fires on the Z. Especially a reacurring check engine light when she's knocking. I feel our diagnosis has been called out in this thread - all we are trying to do is help. I'll post more in the morning.

 

N/a Ftw!

 

I smell fish

 

It's not a coincedence that Dave posted MAJOR details to support his cause yet AAM posted a sketchy *** dyno pass that showed the straighest HP curve of all time yet did not explain that "major knock" was involved.

Correct me if I'm wrong ... you can only have one or the other not BOTH.

 

AAM didn't post the dyno, I had Alberto post for me since I couldn't reach size requirements. Double check who is posting before you go knocking on doors my friend. And I will have this settled one way or another just need to have every detail possible from every party. This isn't a tonka toy losing a wheel, so understand I am very torn right now on what to do and not having the time for this issue to pop up right now.

 

My understanding is if you're knocking that bad, that your ECU will pull timing. If that were the case, it would've shown on the dyno graph.

EDIT: Dave beat me to it. He actually beat me to several things I was gonna say.

 

Guys I will update you with whatever my outcome is, thank you for your input and opinions.

 

Actually they have refused thus far to post the CLEAR dyno and log data. Noone is saying your car is a tonka toy. Believe it or not nearly every person in this thread is trying to help you.

 

+1

 

From what I have understood and anyone I have shown this too, this thread has turned completely against me and everyone targetting me for my choices

 

good luck on getting it resolved, I'm sure money isn't the issue but if Function will pick up your car and check out the car that seems like a great way to alleviate some of the worry you have over driving the car, and it mitigates the issue with your overly busy schedule.

I personally, would look into this option if I had the same time crunch issues!