My first HPDE course
01-19-2003, 07:12 PM
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My first HPDE course
Alright, I finally did my first HPDE course at Thunderhill today-it was awesome! I learned an incredible amount about me and my car. What I especially learned is that my car's limit is much more than my skill limit. However, by the end of the day, I was quickly approaching the car's limit!
It was incredible being there with Club Z seeing all those other Z's along with Viper's, Porches, WRX's, etc.. Truely an inspiring site!
I also quickly realized that at my current level, there is no need for mods. I have not reached a level of skill that my car cannot handle.
What I need to know is what should I do after my next HPDE class next week? I have been advised to do some Autocrossing as that will quickly teach me the limits of my car along with some valuable skills. Also, carting has been recommended (also by Raceboy). Do you guys concur with the above?
As always, thanks for your help!
It was incredible being there with Club Z seeing all those other Z's along with Viper's, Porches, WRX's, etc.. Truely an inspiring site!
I also quickly realized that at my current level, there is no need for mods. I have not reached a level of skill that my car cannot handle.
What I need to know is what should I do after my next HPDE class next week? I have been advised to do some Autocrossing as that will quickly teach me the limits of my car along with some valuable skills. Also, carting has been recommended (also by Raceboy). Do you guys concur with the above?
As always, thanks for your help!
01-19-2003, 09:00 PM
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I've done 2 AutoX's, and will be visiting Laguna Seca in about two weeks.
he AutoX's were really fun, plus they were inexpensive and since the speeds are pretty low, there is very little fear about crashing. Track time is very limited (probably less than 15 minutes total) and you typically will need to work the course as well, but those two factors are part of what make the AutoX very fun. Also, you will typically be able to run the entire course in 2nd gear, which allows you to focus more on the feel of the car, the proper line, and the braking points.
I haven't been karting yet, but some of my AutoX friends have been and they really like it.
I hope to attend some AutoX schools sometime, but I haven't looked into any yet.
One of my friends said that the best training he ever had was when he went to the Porsche Driving School (he had a older 911 at the time), but I don't know if you can attend in just any old car, hehe.
-D'oh!
he AutoX's were really fun, plus they were inexpensive and since the speeds are pretty low, there is very little fear about crashing. Track time is very limited (probably less than 15 minutes total) and you typically will need to work the course as well, but those two factors are part of what make the AutoX very fun. Also, you will typically be able to run the entire course in 2nd gear, which allows you to focus more on the feel of the car, the proper line, and the braking points.
I haven't been karting yet, but some of my AutoX friends have been and they really like it.
I hope to attend some AutoX schools sometime, but I haven't looked into any yet.
One of my friends said that the best training he ever had was when he went to the Porsche Driving School (he had a older 911 at the time), but I don't know if you can attend in just any old car, hehe.
-D'oh!
01-20-2003, 05:45 PM
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01-20-2003, 07:08 PM
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It was a club Z event
Originally posted by ethan84ae
Let's see your NASA Pics!
Here's mine:
http://imageevent.com/ethan84ae/nasahpdelimerockpark
Let's see your NASA Pics!
Here's mine:
http://imageevent.com/ethan84ae/nasahpdelimerockpark
It wasn't a NASA event, but a club event. As for NASA events, some of the guys there scared me away from them because they said that beginners are running with the advanced and because of this, it's dangerous.
Other than that, yes, the car handle's tremendously! Very predictable, well balanced, good steering, and for me no fade since I have the track model. I wasn't going as fast as your but I had fun and learned alot! I have a second track event this coming up weekend and am very excited on further developing my skills!
01-20-2003, 11:25 PM
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NASA, at least in SoCal, is an excellent organization. The SE-R guys have heaps of praise for them and prefer to run with NASA over SpeedTrialUSA and most of the other groups out there.
Might want to pick up a book or two on performance driving.
Auto-x is great too. Keep in mind that your car's behaviour at low-speeds (in auto-x) will probably be different than it is at high speeds (around the track)- but it's just another way to explore the limits.
Damn you... no fade. I'm jealous.
(even with my Porterfield R4 pads, Motul 600, and SS lines I know I'm not fade-proof!)
Might want to pick up a book or two on performance driving.
Auto-x is great too. Keep in mind that your car's behaviour at low-speeds (in auto-x) will probably be different than it is at high speeds (around the track)- but it's just another way to explore the limits.
Damn you... no fade. I'm jealous.
(even with my Porterfield R4 pads, Motul 600, and SS lines I know I'm not fade-proof!)
01-21-2003, 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by brianw
NASA, at least in SoCal, is an excellent organization. The SE-R guys have heaps of praise for them and prefer to run with NASA over SpeedTrialUSA and most of the other groups out there.
Might want to pick up a book or two on performance driving.
Auto-x is great too. Keep in mind that your car's behaviour at low-speeds (in auto-x) will probably be different than it is at high speeds (around the track)- but it's just another way to explore the limits.
Damn you... no fade. I'm jealous. (even with my Porterfield R4 pads, Motul 600, and SS lines I know I'm not fade-proof!)
NASA, at least in SoCal, is an excellent organization. The SE-R guys have heaps of praise for them and prefer to run with NASA over SpeedTrialUSA and most of the other groups out there.
Might want to pick up a book or two on performance driving.
Auto-x is great too. Keep in mind that your car's behaviour at low-speeds (in auto-x) will probably be different than it is at high speeds (around the track)- but it's just another way to explore the limits.
Damn you... no fade. I'm jealous.
(even with my Porterfield R4 pads, Motul 600, and SS lines I know I'm not fade-proof!)
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to learn as much as possible.
Thanks again.
01-21-2003, 08:16 AM
#7
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Re: It was a club Z event
Originally posted by uro279
Hey ethan!
It wasn't a NASA event, but a club event. As for NASA events, some of the guys there scared me away from them because they said that beginners are running with the advanced and because of this, it's dangerous.
Other than that, yes, the car handle's tremendously! Very predictable, well balanced, good steering, and for me no fade since I have the track model. I wasn't going as fast as your but I had fun and learned alot! I have a second track event this coming up weekend and am very excited on further developing my skills!
Hey ethan!
It wasn't a NASA event, but a club event. As for NASA events, some of the guys there scared me away from them because they said that beginners are running with the advanced and because of this, it's dangerous.
Other than that, yes, the car handle's tremendously! Very predictable, well balanced, good steering, and for me no fade since I have the track model. I wasn't going as fast as your but I had fun and learned alot! I have a second track event this coming up weekend and am very excited on further developing my skills!
I thought that HPDE was a NASA thing...:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/index.html
Wish I had the track model!
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01-21-2003, 08:38 AM
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The autox thing is a great idea. Especially to take an autox school offered by your local region. Even though everything is different at the higher speeds seen on a race track, a seasoned autoxer will almost always do well on a road course, where as a veteran road racer will not always make a good autoxer. There are so many essential skills that autox can teach you, about your car and driving in general, in a safe low speed environment, that transfer into all driving.
01-21-2003, 04:54 PM
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uro279
Did you run the full course w/ the 'crows nest' or did you run the bypass at T5? I did a two day event at Thunderhill last year in a track prepped Integra Type R, and had a blast; Thunderhill is probably one of THE finest track in CA ( Laguna Seca has an edge, IMO, only b/c of historical significance.)
I agree that you should definatly get as much seat time as you can, as it's the only way to really, fundamentally, get a felling for your car, and it's behavior at or near the limit.
Regarding the auto-x idea, I auto-x'd for 2 years before I began doing open track events, and found that the car control and smoothness that I developed there carried over to the track very easily; however, I would caution against using auto-x as the venue by which you tune your car suspension/tire pressure settings. Auto-x settings, on the whole, are usually much more radical than track settings, and do not carry over to the track; i.e. crazy tire pressures, high rear spring rates, lots of camber and toe; all of which will, IMO, adversly affect the car behavior at the track, unless it's a very short, and technical one.
Porterfield pads are a nice choice, an interim pad is the R4s; it's an int. pad; good cold, relativly low dust, low noise, and good fade resistence at the track. The more aggressive porterfield is the R4 which, for all intents and purposes, is a dedicated track pad; significantly more dust, some noise, and so-so cold torque. You may also want to consider carbotech pads; I've been using the panther plus as my track/street pad (although it's mostly a track pad), and have been very happy; however, be warned, they dust (a lot), make noise, and are not great cold, but at temp are AMAZING! Ferodo makes a good pad as well.
Lastly, a good intro book on understanding fundamental concepts of car behavior and control is this one.
Regards, and should you ever want to try some of the so. cal. track (buttonwillow, willow springs, streets of willow, etc.) shoot me an email, I've got 10 track events on the calandar for this year. Most down here.
PS- You've got to run Sears Point w/ the carousel. Now thats fun!
I agree that you should definatly get as much seat time as you can, as it's the only way to really, fundamentally, get a felling for your car, and it's behavior at or near the limit.
Regarding the auto-x idea, I auto-x'd for 2 years before I began doing open track events, and found that the car control and smoothness that I developed there carried over to the track very easily; however, I would caution against using auto-x as the venue by which you tune your car suspension/tire pressure settings. Auto-x settings, on the whole, are usually much more radical than track settings, and do not carry over to the track; i.e. crazy tire pressures, high rear spring rates, lots of camber and toe; all of which will, IMO, adversly affect the car behavior at the track, unless it's a very short, and technical one.
Porterfield pads are a nice choice, an interim pad is the R4s; it's an int. pad; good cold, relativly low dust, low noise, and good fade resistence at the track. The more aggressive porterfield is the R4 which, for all intents and purposes, is a dedicated track pad; significantly more dust, some noise, and so-so cold torque. You may also want to consider carbotech pads; I've been using the panther plus as my track/street pad (although it's mostly a track pad), and have been very happy; however, be warned, they dust (a lot), make noise, and are not great cold, but at temp are AMAZING! Ferodo makes a good pad as well.
Lastly, a good intro book on understanding fundamental concepts of car behavior and control is this one.
Regards, and should you ever want to try some of the so. cal. track (buttonwillow, willow springs, streets of willow, etc.) shoot me an email, I've got 10 track events on the calandar for this year. Most down here.
PS- You've got to run Sears Point w/ the carousel. Now thats fun!
01-21-2003, 08:27 PM
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Re: uro279
Originally posted by bb6h22a
Did you run the full course w/ the 'crows nest' or did you run the bypass at T5? I did a two day event at Thunderhill last year in a track prepped Integra Type R, and had a blast; Thunderhill is probably one of THE finest track in CA ( Laguna Seca has an edge, IMO, only b/c of historical significance.)
I agree that you should definatly get as much seat time as you can, as it's the only way to really, fundamentally, get a felling for your car, and it's behavior at or near the limit.
Regarding the auto-x idea, I auto-x'd for 2 years before I began doing open track events, and found that the car control and smoothness that I developed there carried over to the track very easily; however, I would caution against using auto-x as the venue by which you tune your car suspension/tire pressure settings. Auto-x settings, on the whole, are usually much more radical than track settings, and do not carry over to the track; i.e. crazy tire pressures, high rear spring rates, lots of camber and toe; all of which will, IMO, adversly affect the car behavior at the track, unless it's a very short, and technical one.
Porterfield pads are a nice choice, an interim pad is the R4s; it's an int. pad; good cold, relativly low dust, low noise, and good fade resistence at the track. The more aggressive porterfield is the R4 which, for all intents and purposes, is a dedicated track pad; significantly more dust, some noise, and so-so cold torque. You may also want to consider carbotech pads; I've been using the panther plus as my track/street pad (although it's mostly a track pad), and have been very happy; however, be warned, they dust (a lot), make noise, and are not great cold, but at temp are AMAZING! Ferodo makes a good pad as well.
Lastly, a good intro book on understanding fundamental concepts of car behavior and control is this one.
Regards, and should you ever want to try some of the so. cal. track (buttonwillow, willow springs, streets of willow, etc.) shoot me an email, I've got 10 track events on the calandar for this year. Most down here.
PS- You've got to run Sears Point w/ the carousel. Now thats fun!
Did you run the full course w/ the 'crows nest' or did you run the bypass at T5? I did a two day event at Thunderhill last year in a track prepped Integra Type R, and had a blast; Thunderhill is probably one of THE finest track in CA ( Laguna Seca has an edge, IMO, only b/c of historical significance.)
I agree that you should definatly get as much seat time as you can, as it's the only way to really, fundamentally, get a felling for your car, and it's behavior at or near the limit.
Regarding the auto-x idea, I auto-x'd for 2 years before I began doing open track events, and found that the car control and smoothness that I developed there carried over to the track very easily; however, I would caution against using auto-x as the venue by which you tune your car suspension/tire pressure settings. Auto-x settings, on the whole, are usually much more radical than track settings, and do not carry over to the track; i.e. crazy tire pressures, high rear spring rates, lots of camber and toe; all of which will, IMO, adversly affect the car behavior at the track, unless it's a very short, and technical one.
Porterfield pads are a nice choice, an interim pad is the R4s; it's an int. pad; good cold, relativly low dust, low noise, and good fade resistence at the track. The more aggressive porterfield is the R4 which, for all intents and purposes, is a dedicated track pad; significantly more dust, some noise, and so-so cold torque. You may also want to consider carbotech pads; I've been using the panther plus as my track/street pad (although it's mostly a track pad), and have been very happy; however, be warned, they dust (a lot), make noise, and are not great cold, but at temp are AMAZING! Ferodo makes a good pad as well.
Lastly, a good intro book on understanding fundamental concepts of car behavior and control is this one.
Regards, and should you ever want to try some of the so. cal. track (buttonwillow, willow springs, streets of willow, etc.) shoot me an email, I've got 10 track events on the calandar for this year. Most down here.
PS- You've got to run Sears Point w/ the carousel. Now thats fun!
Thanks!
01-21-2003, 09:40 PM
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Practice heel-toe on the street, all the time. It'll be easier than learning it on the track. Imagine trying to get it right into turn 14, watching those tires coming at you! Actually, maybe you did
Turn 11 is a definite one where it'll help, you're right. You want to carry more speed through T10 faster than one would expect, then nail the brakes and downshift for T11. Get the car turned, and accellerate through the S'es onto the straight. So basically you've got to get the speed scrubbed off and downshift on T11. Don't downshift on T10.
Not that I have a 350Z, but that's how I do it in my Z28.
Dave
Turn 11 is a definite one where it'll help, you're right. You want to carry more speed through T10 faster than one would expect, then nail the brakes and downshift for T11. Get the car turned, and accellerate through the S'es onto the straight. So basically you've got to get the speed scrubbed off and downshift on T11. Don't downshift on T10.
Not that I have a 350Z, but that's how I do it in my Z28.
Dave
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