a stock honda civic can beat a 350z too... given the 1/100 chance that the Z owner's foot slips.

 

Thank you for posting the link to my website. You saved me from having to do it. That article in Hot Rod magazine is usually enough to educate anyone who say's the F-body has less horsepower output than a C5.

 

I cannot tell you how many times I have said this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


but I keep forgetting Fbods are like civics, they can never lose...


At least we can admit when we get beaten

 

I have posted a few losses on other sites...
I know I can be beaten, there is always someone faster...

I have not posted any here because you are not allowed to post a race if it does not involve a 350Z
and since I have never lost to a 350Z I can't post when I lose...I don't forsee it happening anytime soon either...

If any 350Z's in the New Orleans area want to give it a go, just let me know....
I am always up for a good friendly run

 

LOL

 

I don't think any of the F-body guys on here are arrogant enough to say "The F-body can never lose" (we're not RX-7 drivers ), but you've gotta understand that a 350Z with minimal mods (say under 260rwhp) isn't going to beat a stock LS1 F-body unless something is drastically effecting the F-body's performance like having 4 Fatso's in the car or something.

On the other hand, if the 350Z has some decent mods, and is making some good power (up near 300 to the wheels), the amount of naysayers will drop since the numbers actually add up to a fair race that can go either way.

Any race between two cars running nearly a full second different on average stock vs. stock where the slower car wins will always draw BS flags, because in a fair race it just doesn't happen.

After all, how many people would believe a stock M6 F-body could beat a MKIV BPU Supra 6-speed from a 50 roll? Not many. Those two cars should run about a full second apart in the 1/4 mile (low-mid 12's versus low-mid 13's) if the drivers are equal.

BTW: I've been beaten a couple of times (Supercharged 5.0 and a sleeper 80's Monte Carlo).

 

So who says all races have to be fair. If an SS pulls up next to me, am I supposed to ask if he is a shitty driver or if he takes care of is car or blah..blah... Um.....NO, if I win, I win. If I lose I'll post it anyways.

 

No its called the 'rules' of racing....and frankly i don't think very many people know them....before racing you acknowledge the other person....nod throw a rev or somthing...
also hitting it and getting a head start isn't fair.

But hey....chase is a race...also generally you don't put on the brakes as the other guy is passing you unless there are cars infront.

 

I guess you did not get my point . I know the rules of racing by the way

 

Believe me, I got your point. I was just saying that most people don't have a clue how to race..they just put the pedal to the floor and when they blow by you are like "i just smoked you" blah blah blah
All i was trying to say is most people don't know how to race...i wasn't pointing any finger at you

 

Ya they better have a Procharged and sprayed 350Z to want any of that!

You have one scary @ss sig!

 

So are you saying that I can still call it a "kill" if the race wasn't fair (i.e. I jump the opponent without him knowing I'm ready to race, or I go on the first honk rather than the third)? In that case, my mildly modded LS1 can take down 360 Modena's or McLaren F1's all day since the races don't have to be fair for me to count it as a win. I could just take off while the other guy has a car in front of him, and since he never catches up its a win right?



It should be assumed in any kill story that the race was a fair race. If the opponent misses a shift or something, say so. It doesn't mean you didn't still win or diminish your cars capabilities, but it means that you beat the driver moreso than the car in this case.

 

Ok well i feel as though i need to share my experiences with Trans-Ams in genera. My last car was a 1992 Dodge Stealth AWD TT and i had a friend at school who had a 1996 Trans-Am and we ran from a stop one day. Well i had him off the light bad (i love AWD) but once i got into 2nd he started pulling on me hard. Around 80 mph he was about 2 car lengths ahead of me. I will attest to the fact that my stealth was faster than my 350z. So basically what im getting at is that if you guys wanna believe a Z has a good chance of beating a trans-am your crazy fool.

 

Thank you! These "kill" stories are just as much about racing the driver as the car.

I will be the FIRST to acknowlegde that the 350Z gives up much in the way of power to the LS1. Now, driver skill comes into play ALMOST anything can happen. Don't get me wrong. I will be the first to call BS on the "my moped beat your Ferrari" posts. However, on the street, there are WAY too many variables. Proponents on BOTH sides need to chill. That means LS1's and 350z's both. When something does not fit our paradigm, we call it into question. Now should the 350z "miraculously" start to dyno around 270-280 whp, that gap starts to get narrower.

If you want a real look at which car has the advantage, you need to count gearing as well. As long as we are looking at whp, something has to be said for torque mutliplication as well. I'll be willing to bet that the 350Z has the DISadvantage in both areas. Just remember that sometimes, just sometimes the "underdog" wins. (Ala Buster Douglas, NE Patriots) Yes, the LS1's have an advantage...but you still have to race.

But, even I won't believe 7 car length kill stories over an ls1 so watch what you post. If any of you STOCK LS1 owners have some spare time to post your dyno sheets with analysis of gearing * torque at RPM along with shift points and RWTQ through the 0-120 run, I would love to see it. Plus, it would go a long way to silence naysayers...of which I am not one.

M

 

Actually the 350Z might have the better gearing in 1st gear (6spd vs 6 spd). LS1s are geared a bit too low from the factory. 2.66 1st gear w/3.42 rear gear. In my experience with Mustang GT's, which I believe have ~3.2x 1st gear with 3.55(?) rear gear, they can usually hang at the rear fender thru 1st, and then I start puttting lenghts on them when I shift to 2nd. They have a pretty big power deficit, but their gearing helps them out at the start.

 

I'll oblige on that. Here you go: My Intake/Exhaust Dyno

While that dyno is not completely stock for my car, it is from when I just had a lid and catback w/2.73 gears. My car is an automatic, the gear ratios go like this (I will only do factory optioned automatic ratios 2.73 and 3.23). The shift speeds for 2.73's are the ones I saw from personal experience, the 3.23's are from a gearing calculation program (www.f-body.org/gears)

1st - 3.06:1 (0-55mph with 2.73 gears or 0-46mph with 3.23's)
2nd - 1.62:1 (55-98mph with 2.73's, 46-87mph with 3.23's)
3rd - 1:1 (98mph-160mph computer limited, 87-142mph with 3.23's)
4th - 0.7:1 (cruising gear with 2.73's, 142-160mph limited with 3.23's)

So, from a little bit of math, total torque multiplication looks like this for automatics.
2.73's 3.23's
1st - 8.3538 9.8838
2nd - 4.4226 5.2326
3rd - 2.73 3.23
4th - 1.911 2.261

 

sorry, dont have my bone stock dynos, but have one with just LID and the other one with Exhaust....they are comparason charts and also the SAE correction sheet of my first dyno. 3:23 gear automatic...dyno took place within 3rd gear.

 

Using your numbers and a dyno-sheet from a 350z I came up with this. I do not claim that these numbers prove any point. The 350z is a stock dyno. The gear ratios for the 350Z are as follows:

Gear 1 2 3 4 5 6 Final
Ratios: 3.790 2.320 1.620 1.270 1.000 0.790 3.540

The chart shows the compound ratios X hp torque @ RPM. I hope that this sheds a little more light on what power (WTQ) is actually laid down to the ground in each gear. If someone has better dyno numbers for either car (something better than 500 RPM increments) let me know.

 

This is the chart. (It finally fits!)