Tease. (Cams)
11-09-2010, 11:44 AM
#132
11-09-2010, 12:03 PM
#133
Crawford is the new (old) Cosworth manifold. I have yet to see any proof that they produce ANY power. And they are not longtubes.
11-09-2010, 12:20 PM
#135
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but without that intake manifold, throttle body and headers, you are not going to yield nearly the same results as the subject car. The OBX's/Megan's, etc are smaller, and IIRC, not as long as the SG or Crawfords. I'd estimate a 10-15 whp difference and probably an equal amount of torque assuming pump gas and a similar state of tune
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-09-2010 at 12:22 PM.
11-09-2010, 12:41 PM
#136
but without that intake manifold, throttle body and headers, you are not going to yield nearly the same results as the subject car. The OBX's/Megan's, etc are smaller, and IIRC, not as long as the SG or Crawfords. I'd estimate a 10-15 whp difference and probably an equal amount of torque assuming pump gas and a similar state of tune
11-09-2010, 01:53 PM
#137
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The primary length on the Crawford is actually longer (slightly) the SG's IIRC (I remember comparing them earlier this year when deciding my next steps for my car) , though yes, it is designed in a shorty configuration, so it needs a test pipe/cat. Yes, collectors are totally different for sure. Outlet diameters differ between them (SG are bigger), which would help with a car that is built and can really rev (and has the cam to suit such a power band). SG Primary diameters differ too in that they are stepped, I don't 'think' the Crawfords are. Again, this will play nicely with some cams and may not be ideal for others, it really all depends. Collectors will def be different due to the packing requirements of a shorty configuration vs a long configuration. SG has alot more room to work with by making it a true long tube, so it stands to reason their collector placement is better, and also longer, which is a nice touch (and probably necessary with the stepped piping in order to prevent reversion). It's a very nicely spec'd and designed header, but like anything else in the NA world, it will only reward the right complimentary setup. Long tube as a product title does not make it necessarily better than short tube...it just makes it different. Just like equal length is not necessarily better than unequal length. What sets the net results apart is how all the subject parts interact.
This is a great article since it's nice to see some in depth testing on the platform. That being said, the only conclusion you can draw is that on a car with this exact setup, you know what to expect from each of the cams chosen. It's cool to see, because it's the first, and likely only time, you would ever see such a test done because it's costly and time consuming. But it will not automatically translate to another car with mods that differ (particularly in the throttle body/intake manifold arena), and in fact, may not be indicative at all of what one can/should expect should they get the same cams. So in that regard, the article doesn't reveal anything staggering (but if you know what you're looking at, you shouldn't expect it to). Change the manifold for the more common spacer, eliminate the 90mm throttle body for the more common stock one in the stock location, put back in a MAF like 90% of people run, and you'll see the results change alot IMHO. Tune it with an ecu that doesn't allow cam timing changes (old school, but a UTEC for example), or even do it on a non-revup, and depending on the cam, you may see the results change even more (I am assuming they manipulated cam timing on a per cam basis to show each in their most positive light, which is the way it should be done IMHO).
A header on a non revup DE without cams is never going to set the world on fire power wise. It never has, and it never will. Makes no difference who makes it. The right headers reward those with the right cams - they significantly affect one another, so they really need to be picked together. Arbitrarily tossing one part in and expecting the world on this platform is unfortunately common
Def look forward to seeing some of the other cams out there tested that we've never seen results of before. Great work Sasha, and thanks for putting it all together
This is a great article since it's nice to see some in depth testing on the platform. That being said, the only conclusion you can draw is that on a car with this exact setup, you know what to expect from each of the cams chosen. It's cool to see, because it's the first, and likely only time, you would ever see such a test done because it's costly and time consuming. But it will not automatically translate to another car with mods that differ (particularly in the throttle body/intake manifold arena), and in fact, may not be indicative at all of what one can/should expect should they get the same cams. So in that regard, the article doesn't reveal anything staggering (but if you know what you're looking at, you shouldn't expect it to). Change the manifold for the more common spacer, eliminate the 90mm throttle body for the more common stock one in the stock location, put back in a MAF like 90% of people run, and you'll see the results change alot IMHO. Tune it with an ecu that doesn't allow cam timing changes (old school, but a UTEC for example), or even do it on a non-revup, and depending on the cam, you may see the results change even more (I am assuming they manipulated cam timing on a per cam basis to show each in their most positive light, which is the way it should be done IMHO).
A header on a non revup DE without cams is never going to set the world on fire power wise. It never has, and it never will. Makes no difference who makes it. The right headers reward those with the right cams - they significantly affect one another, so they really need to be picked together. Arbitrarily tossing one part in and expecting the world on this platform is unfortunately common
Def look forward to seeing some of the other cams out there tested that we've never seen results of before. Great work Sasha, and thanks for putting it all together
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-09-2010 at 02:08 PM.
11-10-2010, 11:41 AM
#140
I guess we can all be nit picky about brand name, but in the end, there will be a VERY minimal difference between off brand and name brand, seriously, $330 shipped for OBX/Megan headers, or $2k+ for SG's and maybe gain a few HP, I will keep my money. Everything I have read on this site says that unless you are FI or running an EXTREMELY aggressive NA setup, a good old spacer and some porting will do the job right (which I have). Yes the test car has a 90mm TB, but I would seriously doubt that my car would make less than 15 RWHP from that cam with my current setup. I am only 3 hp behind that test car after all!