GT Motorsports Stroker Kit Upgrade...
10-21-2006, 07:42 PM
#81
Michael, this is Sam and GT Motorsports thread..not a VRT thread.
You and I both know.....a fast circuit car is 80% DRIVER.....not the level of power you have, or how perfectly your car is setup for the track. All things play an issue, but the fact is, a bone stock car with slicks will probably run circles around cars with double the power levels, and tens of thousands in modifications....on MOST tracks.
Oh, and I'd to like to see the list of your customer's cars that arrived with blown motors...running FCON's. Unless they were pushing the limits of the stock block, I find that highly unlikely....given that HKS has some of the most rigorous requirements for authorizing their Pro-Dealers to tune FCON's.
You and I both know.....a fast circuit car is 80% DRIVER.....not the level of power you have, or how perfectly your car is setup for the track. All things play an issue, but the fact is, a bone stock car with slicks will probably run circles around cars with double the power levels, and tens of thousands in modifications....on MOST tracks.
Oh, and I'd to like to see the list of your customer's cars that arrived with blown motors...running FCON's. Unless they were pushing the limits of the stock block, I find that highly unlikely....given that HKS has some of the most rigorous requirements for authorizing their Pro-Dealers to tune FCON's.
10-21-2006, 08:14 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Michael, this is Sam and GT Motorsports thread..not a VRT thread.
You and I both know.....a fast circuit car is 80% DRIVER.....not the level of power you have, or how perfectly your car is setup for the track. All things play an issue, but the fact is, a bone stock car with slicks will probably run circles around cars with double the power levels, and tens of thousands in modifications....on MOST tracks.
Oh, and I'd to like to see the list of your customer's cars that arrived with blown motors...running FCON's. Unless they were pushing the limits of the stock block, I find that highly unlikely...given that HKS has some of the most rigorous requirements for authorizing their Pro-Dealers to tune FCON's.
You and I both know.....a fast circuit car is 80% DRIVER.....not the level of power you have, or how perfectly your car is setup for the track. All things play an issue, but the fact is, a bone stock car with slicks will probably run circles around cars with double the power levels, and tens of thousands in modifications....on MOST tracks.
Oh, and I'd to like to see the list of your customer's cars that arrived with blown motors...running FCON's. Unless they were pushing the limits of the stock block, I find that highly unlikely...given that HKS has some of the most rigorous requirements for authorizing their Pro-Dealers to tune FCON's.
First and foremost, my statements aren't in any way NEGATIVITY towards HKS Fcon or GTM and/or any of it's users or customers. In anyway. Yet Gurgen statements are all negative toward VRT and I really think that is Totally unnecessary.
If you would like to discuss our experiences over the phone, no problem. Just pointing out we have seen car(s) and rebuilt their motors with Fcon and other EMS outside of Split Second. And yes, they were on built motors and yes they were blown.
Not that the customer didn't screw them with over-boost, or crappy fuel, or bad tuning...we all know that can happen, yet this is an absolute fact.
I appreciate your opinions, and positive statements yet I don't go around trying to attack anyone, I am totally interested in solutions, just don't appreciate some of the things Gurgen is saying or eluding to. Don't need to talk crap, doesn't do any of us any good.
And please do not take my invitations to the track as NEGATIVE, we are always tracking, the best way I know how to test and evaluate a car. And yes you are right Sharif, the driver is everything at a track to a point. It helps to have a well built car that can withstand lap after lap after lap regardless...
Thanks again for understanding my position and I APOLOGIZE if it seemed as if I was being negative toward GTM or HKS Fcon, not my intentions AT ALL I assure you of this.
M
Last edited by mraturbo; 10-21-2006 at 08:43 PM.
10-21-2006, 08:16 PM
#83
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What is the stock rod length, and rod length of your rods?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of each stroke length available over the others? Why would someone want to go with 87mm over 90mm?
How do the differing rod/stroke ratio's affect powerband and high rpm power production ability of the motor?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of each stroke length available over the others? Why would someone want to go with 87mm over 90mm?
How do the differing rod/stroke ratio's affect powerband and high rpm power production ability of the motor?
Last edited by legend4life; 10-21-2006 at 08:20 PM.
10-21-2006, 09:20 PM
#85
OK..Michael/VRT
I had a very long response that i was typing up about what you said..but i just don't want to take away from this thread and get offtopic...
I can summarize your sentiment, which is what i have a problem with pointing out the following:
1) Your quote
This is what i am talking about... I hope every one of your customers is reading this. Not faster or safer?
2) Your remarks about me are personal... let me just tell, i don't have to show off to be smarter than you. You make me laugh... You are comparing my posts with your 90% BS/sales.
3) My negative sentiments about your professinal abilities started at Spring Mountain last spring, when i showed you my dyno graph and tune to get your opinion on it, and the first thing you said "you gotta go with the splitsecond"... there was nothing to be fixed. Don't knw your wrenching abilities, but you don't know anything about tuning, which is nearly the 99% determinant of safety and success of a motor build... but then again you say that EMS makes no difference on how fast/safe the car is. Incredible...
I had a very long response that i was typing up about what you said..but i just don't want to take away from this thread and get offtopic...
I can summarize your sentiment, which is what i have a problem with pointing out the following:
1) Your quote
NOTE: I AM NOT BAGGING ON Fcon, JUST MAKING A POINT THE EMS DOES'T make the car faster or safer (if the user or tuner screws up) in all cases if any, if it does - show me on the track!
2) Your remarks about me are personal... let me just tell, i don't have to show off to be smarter than you. You make me laugh... You are comparing my posts with your 90% BS/sales.
3) My negative sentiments about your professinal abilities started at Spring Mountain last spring, when i showed you my dyno graph and tune to get your opinion on it, and the first thing you said "you gotta go with the splitsecond"... there was nothing to be fixed. Don't knw your wrenching abilities, but you don't know anything about tuning, which is nearly the 99% determinant of safety and success of a motor build... but then again you say that EMS makes no difference on how fast/safe the car is. Incredible...
10-21-2006, 09:32 PM
#86
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Wow,
Attacks again...Funny
Is that were all of your negativity about me, VRT, JWT, and Split Second came from? Then I owe you an apology for not spending more time with you when you asked what EMS we would use, I gave you an honest answer. At least now I can understand why you continue to make consistent attacks on me, VRT, and Split Second.
So Please, Let's eliminate the negativity. You don't have to like me, but keep the BS out of the equation.
Yet I will repeat, it doesn't matter what EMS you use, Fcon, Split Second, Greddy, Utech, I don't care, if the User or the Tuner Screws up, the result is the same...A pile of junk with holes in it.
My invitation stands for meeting at the track, not to talk crap, just to get more Z and Gs to the track and share ideas, systems, performance, and more!
As for going off topic, I will not just not going to stand still while you take unnecessary cheap shots. I will look forward to talking to Sam and crew about buying their kit. It is about time someone came up with a great kit to increase these car's displacement.
Have a nice night Gurgen and please come by Cal-speedway Sunday if you can.
M
Attacks again...Funny
Is that were all of your negativity about me, VRT, JWT, and Split Second came from? Then I owe you an apology for not spending more time with you when you asked what EMS we would use, I gave you an honest answer. At least now I can understand why you continue to make consistent attacks on me, VRT, and Split Second.
So Please, Let's eliminate the negativity. You don't have to like me, but keep the BS out of the equation.
Yet I will repeat, it doesn't matter what EMS you use, Fcon, Split Second, Greddy, Utech, I don't care, if the User or the Tuner Screws up, the result is the same...A pile of junk with holes in it.
My invitation stands for meeting at the track, not to talk crap, just to get more Z and Gs to the track and share ideas, systems, performance, and more!
As for going off topic, I will not just not going to stand still while you take unnecessary cheap shots. I will look forward to talking to Sam and crew about buying their kit. It is about time someone came up with a great kit to increase these car's displacement.
Have a nice night Gurgen and please come by Cal-speedway Sunday if you can.
M
Last edited by mraturbo; 10-21-2006 at 09:38 PM.
10-21-2006, 10:30 PM
#88
Originally Posted by sentry65
i thought he just meant that the name brand that's on the box of the EMS doesn't matter as much as the tune...
Michael, I am not attacking you, but I dont want people to get the idea that all engine management computers are created equally. Nothing could be further from the truth, and misconceptions need to corrected on a public forum.
10-22-2006, 12:14 AM
#91
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back to GTM.... awsome kits, what other additions are made for a longblock set up, other then cleaning the heads... as part of a package? Or is it all custom setups?
10-22-2006, 01:39 AM
#92
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Originally Posted by sentry65
i thought he just meant that the name brand that's on the box of the EMS doesn't matter as much as the tune...
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
But to say that an eManage blue or Split Second box can deliver a safe/powerful tune on par with an FCON is absolutely false.
Michael, I am not attacking you, but I dont want people to get the idea that all engine management computers are created equally. Nothing could be further from the truth, and misconceptions need to corrected on a public forum.
Michael, I am not attacking you, but I dont want people to get the idea that all engine management computers are created equally. Nothing could be further from the truth, and misconceptions need to corrected on a public forum.
M
Last edited by mraturbo; 10-22-2006 at 01:41 AM.
10-22-2006, 01:42 AM
#93
yeah I don't think all EMS's are created equal, but if you have an expensive Fcon or MOTEC with a dangerous tune vs a lesser EMS with a good safe tune, well it's obvious which is going to run the car better and cost less in the long run
Ultimately it's on the shoulders of the owner. Hopefully the shop knows how to tune well
If HKS would have more certified shops or at least one local, I would have been using that a long time ago
Ultimately it's on the shoulders of the owner. Hopefully the shop knows how to tune well
If HKS would have more certified shops or at least one local, I would have been using that a long time ago
10-22-2006, 01:43 AM
#94
Yes symalik
You are right.. This is about GTM, not my personal feeligns toward VRT, that should have been left alone. And what you said at teh track is not the only place I am draewing my conclusions from. Of course I do not agree with you at all, but again, not getting into this.
I saw the parts in person today (again), and it's truly a work of art. It's really really well done. I wish I could find someone who needed my kidney (one of them).
You are right.. This is about GTM, not my personal feeligns toward VRT, that should have been left alone. And what you said at teh track is not the only place I am draewing my conclusions from. Of course I do not agree with you at all, but again, not getting into this.
I saw the parts in person today (again), and it's truly a work of art. It's really really well done. I wish I could find someone who needed my kidney (one of them).
10-22-2006, 01:48 AM
#96
Originally Posted by sentry65
yeah I don't think all EMS's are created equal, but if you have an expensive Fcon or MOTEC with a dangerous tune vs a lesser EMS with a good safe tune, well it's obvious which is going to run the car better and cost less in the long run
Ultimately it's on the shoulders of the owner. Hopefully the shop knows how to tune well
If HKS would have more certified shops or at least one local, I would have been using that a long time ago
Ultimately it's on the shoulders of the owner. Hopefully the shop knows how to tune well
If HKS would have more certified shops or at least one local, I would have been using that a long time ago
10-22-2006, 04:06 AM
#97
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VRT and Gurgen I think it's very rude of you to mess up sam's thread. If you guys want to fight start your own thread or take it to PM's. Vendors should know better than to get involved with other people arguing. Now both of you grow up.
10-22-2006, 04:14 AM
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Mother of God. Why can't we just have an informative thread without a sales pitch from VRT?
Anyway. Sam, will your distributors (mainly Forged/Sharif) be installing the stroker kits, or do they send the block back to you to have the work done?
Anyway. Sam, will your distributors (mainly Forged/Sharif) be installing the stroker kits, or do they send the block back to you to have the work done?
10-22-2006, 04:41 AM
#99
Originally Posted by dutchboy
Mother of God. Why can't we just have an informative thread without a sales pitch from VRT?
Anyway. Sam, will your distributors (mainly Forged/Sharif) be installing the stroker kits, or do they send the block back to you to have the work done?
Anyway. Sam, will your distributors (mainly Forged/Sharif) be installing the stroker kits, or do they send the block back to you to have the work done?
10-22-2006, 05:11 AM
#100
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Originally Posted by captj3
VRT and Gurgen I think it's very rude of you to mess up sam's thread. If you guys want to fight start your own thread or take it to PM's. Vendors should know better than to get involved with other people arguing. Now both of you grow up.
You are right. GTM thread and hopefully we can try this motor soon.
Sorry for the misdirection on my part.
M