taurran : "Testing new waters" with the Turbonetics ST
01-10-2008, 04:42 AM
#1063
My last reply on this... (long , sorry)
Well guys, what a long road this has been. This all started back after Z days when Craigs motor blew. i really really wanted to take on this single turbo project because i wanted to see how how hard it would be to upgrade the turbo and turn the boost up with the regular turbonetics kit. So, i offered craig a great deal to do the work.
We get the motor done and do all the normal break in process , then throw it on the dyno. We were trying to use some hybrid turbo from TN where they bored out the regular 60-1 hifi and put a 66 wheel in it. Well as SOON as we get up near boost the whole shop fills up with smoke. We then take off the pipes that feed the turbo so the motor is open headers and ZERO smoke is coming out of the motor. We take the turbo out and the whole intercooler is filled with oil along with every pipe from the turbo back.
First turbo pull for free for craig, first dyno session...
Second, we get the turbo back from TN and put it in, we start it up and everything seems ok this time. this is still the 60-1 with bigger wheel. put it on the dyno again, hit boost and oil starts pouring out the back of the turbo again. we take off the downpipe and just watch it pour out the back.
Second turbo pull for free for Craig, second dyno session for free...
Now, i say there is no way that we are putting that turbo back in cause i am starting to feel frustration of doing all this work for free cause it wasnt anywhere in the contract and craig was my friend. i say , send me another mid section that is already done the same so we can change it out.
Mid section shows up and we swap it all out.
Third turbo pull for free for Craig, dyno session 3 for free...
Start it up and everything is just fine!! woo hoo!! put in on the dyno and get into boost and it starts blowing oil out the down pipe too. Now we waste a couple weeks trying to find oil restrictors in a few different sizes to get the oil pressure down.
During this time i am speaking with Reggie at Turbonetics who has been nothing but help on the project. He says **** it, i will send you a baller turbo. So we wait for it.
DAMN, a nice GTK 850 housed T-4 72 mm brand new turbo shows up . We are anxious to put it in so...
Fourth turbo pull for Craig for free, 4th dyno session for free....
New turbo in and everything is running GREAT!! finally we can tune it, so we start playing around, car is making weak power on 9 psi. hmmm... lets see what it could be. remove his whole exhaust for free for him and pick up 50 whp. no more Fujitsubu for him...
car is running well now but not making power like i thought it would. must be that small intake piping on the front, something is limiting it at 470. remove car from dyno. send the car to have some new piping made on the intake side. get the car back.
5th dyno session for free... First jug of C16 here....
Get a few more hp out of it but not like i wanted. hmmm, what could it be now??
We change around a lot of stuff, play with it all, put new coils in, new spark plugs regapped smaller, data log every intake air temp and realize that the temps go up A LOT under boost. Lets try to redo the intake piping so it is no where near the turbo. Get the car back, ask craig if he could give me $350 dollars to cover my cost on the intake pipe, jug of C16 and the gas we have had to put into the car. i feel like this is not much to ask for all the work we have done.
6th dyno session for free...
Car is running much much better but something is still not right. also at this time craig is asking us to do a complete custom true dual exhaust from the bottom of the downpipe back. no problem, my guy charges me his rates and gets the true dual started and made a new turbo to intercooler pipe that is 3 inch as well. when we go to put up the supplied mufflers from craig, they are way too big to fit, guy does full exhaust except the mufflers, they are ready to get hung. in trade for all these costs i have ran across, i sold craigs old exhaust for 500 dollars like he asked me too and asked him if i could just keep that 500 dollars for expenses. although hesistent, he agrees...
7th dyno session for free... 2nd jug of C16 car is doing better, not the best , motor is running strong, i feel like maybe the 750cc RC and utec are contributing to the problem now. everything else is top notch, why are we skimping out on the ecu for some big power. i personally dont like RC injectors so maybe thts the issue. i tell craig and he tells me to wait and see if he can come up with the money for a new ECU and injectors...
Meanwhile, i decide that maybe i will try to run a bit more timing on his setup, the car was only making 15 hp per psi so i just thought one day that might be part of the issue.
8th dyno session for free. Third jug of C16 . Well car is making good power now. 595 whp and 600 + tq at 18 psi. Car is CRAZY on the street and makes full boost at 4700 rpms. i could live with that. still doing something weird at 5300 rpms though WTF!!
so this is where we stand now... all this why craig constantly bitches about it taking so long and putting us down. we are done with this whole mess. we have lost thousands of dollars and weeks of our lives only to be talked behind our backs and been shown NO thankfulness for what we have done.
if you want to make jokes or continue with your comments , go ahead. i dont care. i have worked WAY WAY WAY WAY too hard on this for any of you to understand. R and D takes a while and we should have just built a full custom single turbo kit from the beginning and not tried to upgrade.
Please remember that all of this was being done on the side while managing an average of 10 cars all year long ran just with me and AJ. i would like to thank AJ for all the hard work he has put in at Performance Factory. We have now upgraded to a staff of four people. if we could handle all of that with two, four should be much easier.
the car sits there now, running strong, waiting for craig to pick it up tomorrow. if he wants anything else done. its regular price....
We get the motor done and do all the normal break in process , then throw it on the dyno. We were trying to use some hybrid turbo from TN where they bored out the regular 60-1 hifi and put a 66 wheel in it. Well as SOON as we get up near boost the whole shop fills up with smoke. We then take off the pipes that feed the turbo so the motor is open headers and ZERO smoke is coming out of the motor. We take the turbo out and the whole intercooler is filled with oil along with every pipe from the turbo back.
First turbo pull for free for craig, first dyno session...
Second, we get the turbo back from TN and put it in, we start it up and everything seems ok this time. this is still the 60-1 with bigger wheel. put it on the dyno again, hit boost and oil starts pouring out the back of the turbo again. we take off the downpipe and just watch it pour out the back.
Second turbo pull for free for Craig, second dyno session for free...
Now, i say there is no way that we are putting that turbo back in cause i am starting to feel frustration of doing all this work for free cause it wasnt anywhere in the contract and craig was my friend. i say , send me another mid section that is already done the same so we can change it out.
Mid section shows up and we swap it all out.
Third turbo pull for free for Craig, dyno session 3 for free...
Start it up and everything is just fine!! woo hoo!! put in on the dyno and get into boost and it starts blowing oil out the down pipe too. Now we waste a couple weeks trying to find oil restrictors in a few different sizes to get the oil pressure down.
During this time i am speaking with Reggie at Turbonetics who has been nothing but help on the project. He says **** it, i will send you a baller turbo. So we wait for it.
DAMN, a nice GTK 850 housed T-4 72 mm brand new turbo shows up . We are anxious to put it in so...
Fourth turbo pull for Craig for free, 4th dyno session for free....
New turbo in and everything is running GREAT!! finally we can tune it, so we start playing around, car is making weak power on 9 psi. hmmm... lets see what it could be. remove his whole exhaust for free for him and pick up 50 whp. no more Fujitsubu for him...
car is running well now but not making power like i thought it would. must be that small intake piping on the front, something is limiting it at 470. remove car from dyno. send the car to have some new piping made on the intake side. get the car back.
5th dyno session for free... First jug of C16 here....
Get a few more hp out of it but not like i wanted. hmmm, what could it be now??
We change around a lot of stuff, play with it all, put new coils in, new spark plugs regapped smaller, data log every intake air temp and realize that the temps go up A LOT under boost. Lets try to redo the intake piping so it is no where near the turbo. Get the car back, ask craig if he could give me $350 dollars to cover my cost on the intake pipe, jug of C16 and the gas we have had to put into the car. i feel like this is not much to ask for all the work we have done.
6th dyno session for free...
Car is running much much better but something is still not right. also at this time craig is asking us to do a complete custom true dual exhaust from the bottom of the downpipe back. no problem, my guy charges me his rates and gets the true dual started and made a new turbo to intercooler pipe that is 3 inch as well. when we go to put up the supplied mufflers from craig, they are way too big to fit, guy does full exhaust except the mufflers, they are ready to get hung. in trade for all these costs i have ran across, i sold craigs old exhaust for 500 dollars like he asked me too and asked him if i could just keep that 500 dollars for expenses. although hesistent, he agrees...
7th dyno session for free... 2nd jug of C16 car is doing better, not the best , motor is running strong, i feel like maybe the 750cc RC and utec are contributing to the problem now. everything else is top notch, why are we skimping out on the ecu for some big power. i personally dont like RC injectors so maybe thts the issue. i tell craig and he tells me to wait and see if he can come up with the money for a new ECU and injectors...
Meanwhile, i decide that maybe i will try to run a bit more timing on his setup, the car was only making 15 hp per psi so i just thought one day that might be part of the issue.
8th dyno session for free. Third jug of C16 . Well car is making good power now. 595 whp and 600 + tq at 18 psi. Car is CRAZY on the street and makes full boost at 4700 rpms. i could live with that. still doing something weird at 5300 rpms though WTF!!
so this is where we stand now... all this why craig constantly bitches about it taking so long and putting us down. we are done with this whole mess. we have lost thousands of dollars and weeks of our lives only to be talked behind our backs and been shown NO thankfulness for what we have done.
if you want to make jokes or continue with your comments , go ahead. i dont care. i have worked WAY WAY WAY WAY too hard on this for any of you to understand. R and D takes a while and we should have just built a full custom single turbo kit from the beginning and not tried to upgrade.
Please remember that all of this was being done on the side while managing an average of 10 cars all year long ran just with me and AJ. i would like to thank AJ for all the hard work he has put in at Performance Factory. We have now upgraded to a staff of four people. if we could handle all of that with two, four should be much easier.
the car sits there now, running strong, waiting for craig to pick it up tomorrow. if he wants anything else done. its regular price....
Last edited by Audible Mayhem; 01-10-2008 at 04:44 AM.
01-10-2008, 04:51 AM
#1065
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
so this is where we stand now... all this why craig constantly bitches about it taking so long and putting us down. we are done with this whole mess. we have lost thousands of dollars and weeks of our lives only to be talked behind our backs and been shown NO thankfulness for what we have done.
if you want to make jokes or continue with your comments , go ahead. i dont care. i have worked WAY WAY WAY WAY too hard on this for any of you to understand. R and D takes a while and we should have just built a full custom single turbo kit from the beginning and not tried to upgrade.
Please remember that all of this was being done on the side while managing an average of 10 cars all year long ran just with me and AJ. i would like to thank AJ for all the hard work he has put in at Performance Factory. We have now upgraded to a staff of four people. if we could handle all of that with two, four should be much easier.
the car sits there now, running strong, waiting for craig to pick it up tomorrow. if he wants anything else done. its regular price....
Why let yourself be taken advantage of like that?Shops need to at least generate enough dough to be able to pay to keep the lights on. He could have at least swung you that..............
Last edited by Zivman; 01-10-2008 at 04:53 AM.
01-10-2008, 04:58 AM
#1066
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If you knew JT personally you would know that he's all about cars and has an incredible passion for trying new things and going fast. He would do all this for free if he could for any of us, because its all about his passion. JT knows what direction his shop is going ^^^ and I'm sure he won't let this happen again. JT is not only an innovator for our cars but truly understands business as well, this won't hold him back I can guarantee it.
01-10-2008, 04:59 AM
#1067
i am not saying that craig didnt pay me for anything, it all kinda happened slowly. i would think if someone was offering you that deal though, you would be their number one spokesperson.
i would gladly hand him a 6000 dollar invoice in trade for talking behind my back to everyone...
i guess i kinda just felt bad and felt like it was a challenge to me. i hate situations like this. i need to just charge EVERYone full price and not lose sleep over it.
i would gladly hand him a 6000 dollar invoice in trade for talking behind my back to everyone...
i guess i kinda just felt bad and felt like it was a challenge to me. i hate situations like this. i need to just charge EVERYone full price and not lose sleep over it.
01-10-2008, 05:00 AM
#1068
wow! 
that's alot for work you and AJ have done - essentially for free.
Did craig expect his car to take priortity over the cars when you were doing all of this pro bono work for him? That's not very realistic. It is hard to get excited aboout working for free. MOst shops would have given up on that project a long time ago...especially with all those faulty turbos.
Kudos for finishing it up...and I can understand your frustrations. Not feeling appreciated and then getting back-stabbed will do it everytime!!!
that's alot for work you and AJ have done - essentially for free.Did craig expect his car to take priortity over the cars when you were doing all of this pro bono work for him? That's not very realistic. It is hard to get excited aboout working for free. MOst shops would have given up on that project a long time ago...especially with all those faulty turbos.
Kudos for finishing it up...and I can understand your frustrations. Not feeling appreciated and then getting back-stabbed will do it everytime!!!
01-10-2008, 05:01 AM
#1069
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wow, long read. Sucks JT, was really hoping you guys could pull it off with minimal work round of the stock TN kit.
Still nice to see you guys really take care of your customers, weather they appreciate it or not.
T
Still nice to see you guys really take care of your customers, weather they appreciate it or not.
T
Last edited by TayTaythatsme04; 01-10-2008 at 05:03 AM.
01-10-2008, 05:09 AM
#1070
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+1 He's always been like that. Even 10 years ago he would help out friends that needed help with their cars. He helped out on numerous motor swaps just because it was something no one else was doing. His character rates A+ in my book. He's helped out friends when he gained nothing by it ever since I have known him. Sorry this had to happen.
Originally Posted by coachk
If you knew JT personally you would know that he's all about cars and has an incredible passion for trying new things and going fast. He would do all this for free if he could for any of us, because its all about his passion. JT knows what direction his shop is going ^^^ and I'm sure he won't let this happen again. JT is not only an innovator for our cars but truly understands business as well, this won't hold him back I can guarantee it.
01-10-2008, 05:12 AM
#1071
Originally Posted by coachk
If you knew JT personally you would know that he's all about cars and has an incredible passion for trying new things and going fast. He would do all this for free if he could for any of us, because its all about his passion. JT knows what direction his shop is going ^^^ and I'm sure he won't let this happen again. JT is not only an innovator for our cars but truly understands business as well, this won't hold him back I can guarantee it.
Like Coach K said above, JT really takes care of his clients. He always goes above and beyond what is necessary. That is the kind of guy that Jeremy is. It is very hard to put a value on Jeremy's customer service. To say thanks to all of his hard work for him me, I sent Jeremy a christmas gift - a little something for the toolbox. I can definately say that I have never sent a christmas gift to the proprietor of a speed shop ever before.....but then again, none of those shops were owned by Jeremy Tibbs either. It was the least I could do to say "Thank You!"
01-10-2008, 05:14 AM
#1073
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i've been in your shoes and it sucks, to end up disapointed in the product and the customer.people don't understand the effort involved in "stepping out of the box" and rarely want to pay for it.when starting from scratch customers need to remember that you are not only working when your hands are busy,but also during research and planning which extends into before work,after work,while youre eating and before you lay your head on the pillow.non of which is billable hrs and should at least be appreciated.just remember your passion is what defines you and not the trials you encounter along the way.
01-10-2008, 05:43 AM
#1075
New Member
iTrader: (13)
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
i am not saying that craig didnt pay me for anything, it all kinda happened slowly. i would think if someone was offering you that deal though, you would be their number one spokesperson.
i would gladly hand him a 6000 dollar invoice in trade for talking behind my back to everyone...
i guess i kinda just felt bad and felt like it was a challenge to me. i hate situations like this. i need to just charge EVERYone full price and not lose sleep over it.
i would gladly hand him a 6000 dollar invoice in trade for talking behind my back to everyone...
i guess i kinda just felt bad and felt like it was a challenge to me. i hate situations like this. i need to just charge EVERYone full price and not lose sleep over it.
wow.... you trully gave him from what i understand a quote for him to work on his car for your cost almost, and he gets "freebies" at cost of bellow directly from turbonetics... you go your way around workign on his setup, adn still he btiches about giving you money.... WTF?
then he acts on the board like "i pay for my own stuff" "i dont get favors"..... sheez...
01-10-2008, 05:43 AM
#1076
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
i am not saying that craig didnt pay me for anything, it all kinda happened slowly. i would think if someone was offering you that deal though, you would be their number one spokesperson.
i would gladly hand him a 6000 dollar invoice in trade for talking behind my back to everyone...
i guess i kinda just felt bad and felt like it was a challenge to me. i hate situations like this. i need to just charge EVERYone full price and not lose sleep over it.
i would gladly hand him a 6000 dollar invoice in trade for talking behind my back to everyone...
i guess i kinda just felt bad and felt like it was a challenge to me. i hate situations like this. i need to just charge EVERYone full price and not lose sleep over it.
we all knew you were cutting him a big break.. we all know you were working tooth and nail spending more than he was to try and get htis completed.. thats why he kept thowing it in our faces every 5 min saying Julian and Sharif are overpriced .. and to their customers that they pay way too much ..
Good work cost Good money.. its a shame what really happened.. a lesson to you JT .. you can only extend your hand so far.. Sharif, Sam and Julian bend over for their customers.. but they don't let their customers bend them over..
01-10-2008, 05:46 AM
#1077
01-10-2008, 05:48 AM
#1078
New Member
iTrader: (13)
Originally Posted by craigo'sznprgrs
Long read and sorry to hear about this. Hope it all comes to an acceptable resolution.
i guess that woudl be for him to stop acting like he is my350z's queen of england and start paying like we all do.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 01-10-2008 at 05:51 AM.
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