^^^ search under "performancy factory 5at" in the FI section and its on the 3rd page.OP is Audible Mayhem

 

Bump it up...maybe we can get an answer today

 

Since I noticed George was viewing this thread a little bit ago . I will ask another question .

This car was to be retuned to give it over 600whp . Was this ever done ? And is the owner a member of this site ?

 

I have seen nothing but great built cars come out of GTM and I sure they do nothing but quality work . And from what I hear and pic's Ive seen , they have tons of cars coming in and out of thier shop .
So why do ethical questions keep coming up in my opinion ? I mean they shouldnt be hurting for buisness and look to be doing great . And I'll be the first to say , I do hold some bad feelings for Sam because of questions that were not answered about some of his builds . And with this thread....more questions go un answered . So lets look back at , some of I might not get the story exactly right and both sides of the stories were never told . But what I precieve from what Ive read by all the parties that posted on this site and in the threads that lead me to believe what I believe.

[1] Sam comes on this site and says he has a customer that came in with a bad motor that was built by BZM's .
[2] Customer [ for some reason ] lets GTM tear down the motor instead of sending it back to BZM . Which is ethical question #1
[3] Sam bashes BZM's motos builds and came up with a bunch of reasons why the motor failed and all being the builders fault . WHich is ethical question #2
[4]Sam bills the customer 13 grand for a rebuild . Ethical question #3
[5]It has come to light that GTM built a motor for a member of this site and that motor blew . It basicly has been swept under the rug as to hide it from the public eye and members of this site . Ethical question #4
[6] This thread was posted a few months ago but I never really paid attention to it because it was just another ....LOOK AT WHAT WE DID....self promotional thread . The customer never even posts in the thread .
So some one bumps it up with a post and I start to read it . Let me say.....that the end results of this build are great . Looks like the customer got a great car back .
[7] Right off the bat some thing dont look right with what was used as a before dyno . Peak trq was at 3400rpm's on a AT5 . This dyno looks to be a MT6 dyno . Ethical question #5
[8] Sam says this was a SP built motor with SP cams .
[9] The tune [ if actually this car ] is just plain terrible . And should have not been able to leave the original shop .WHo tuned it ?
[10] Sam says customer said he wanted at least what his plate said [ 545whp ]
[11] WHy wasnt the SP motor good enough to get the customer what he wanted ? Ethical question #6
[12] Ethical question #7 Does GTM [ Sam ] see a blank check walk in the door and take full advantage of them when they do . Seems this customer could have been taken advantage of wanting good WHP . Seems his goal could have been easily obtained with the motor he had . A tranny build and a few other alterations could have gotten him there . WHy was a total rebuild stroker motor done ?
Im sure Im not the only one that wants to ask these questions . But it looks like Im the only one crazy enough to ask . Gtm is a sponsor of this site and has a lot of nuthuggers here ready to defend them to the death..lol . So Im sure I'll hear it from all sides . I may even be band for it .
Every shop on this site has had bad builds and they try to sweep them under the rug . But I dont think ethical questions should be . I dont think buisnesses with bad ethical buisness tactics should be let alone to take customers for thier hard earned money . I think the hard questions need to be asked and gotten out in the open so every one can discuss them and the truth be known . When peoples questions are ingnored , even more ethical questions arise , Thats my reason for this post .

Does anyone else think some of these ethical questions should be answered ?

 

Booger they will never be answered. If they are not to the extent you want. This has been happening from day 1 on this forum with multiple vendors. Nobody will answer the hard questions honestly. It's bad for business.

 

booger, I think that many of the "questions" you posted do not have simple answers. A post of a build cannot capture all the nuances and decisions that resulted in the final product. It doesn't make sense for GTM to get into a debate with you. If a shop makes a mistake and takes care of it and the customer is happy with the result, then I think it's inappropriate to pass judgment or open up discussion in a public forum based on whether you personally are happy with the way things turned out. If a customer feels they were treated poorly or not supported by their builder, then of course, it can be beneficial to both forum members and the the customer to post here and possibly find some resolution.

I do think that if Sam and George are too busy, then they should find someone to try to respond to questions, PMs, etc that are posted online (even if only a cordial "that is all I can say - thank you" note). I've had many unanswered PMs from Sam in the past, but he was always prompt to return calls and spend time explaining issues or products to my satisfaction.

Hopefully when they finally get their website up and running, they will hire someone to manage online customer service full time.

 

Seems George has taken over the job of posting for Sam most of the time . Its not a question of them not having the time to answer the simple questions . As they are both on this site most every day . if they post or not , I dont know . You can see when they last were active on the site .

What crossed my mind when reading this post is that the before dyno doesnt even look like a AT5 dyno . The tune is terrible . And why wasnt the SP motor not good enough to get the power the customer wanted . Simple questions that both George and Sam have read but decided not to answer . This leave you thinking of more ethical question about the build . And why was a MT6 dyno used as a before dyno .

 

well... i dunno on the scotts perf engine....but who knows what to expect form them...BUT regardless...unless the owner was decided, on his own, on this for some reason and not being mislead its necesary..... 4.2L is overkill to reach 600whp STD on dynojet IMO
Regardless the car is pretty nice and again thanks for the pics 2 the op..

 

With simple questions that go un answered...yes..this is what makes me ask the question ....Was the customer looked at like a blank check and taken advantage of .

 

I just don't see a reason to get pissed at GTM because they didn't see a question someone posted in a thread

just give them a call
909-481-1601
ask for sam

Sam just today got back from being out of the country so obviously he couldn't be expected to answer questions until maybe today - which he probably has a ton of other more important things to get to that have piled up

can we really all expect sam and george to actively dig through this site on a daily basis looking for anyone's questions when they have more important things to be doing? I'm amazed they bother to answer anything at all.



the GTM engine blowing is different than that BZM engine which seemed to have issues from the very start. Instead the GTM engine already was working well for awhile and then later blew upand who knows why. Was it tuning? driver's fault? Over-reving? Bad sensors? Pushed too hard for too long when tracking? Who knows. Either way any engine is capable of blowing. I don't think GTM would claim their engines are invincible

 

lol...Sam was last active on this site at around 5.30pm Yesterday . George was reading this thread yesterday also .

The ethical question was why GTM talked a BZM customer into letting them tear the motor down and then bashed BZM's for that build . And when one of thier motors goes bad....sweep it under the rug .



Sentry
Sounds like you know about all thier builds and where he is at all times . You keep chimming in and commenting like you know

 

it's because I just happened to call GTM last tuesday to talk with Sam and happened to find out he was out of the country - just relaying that to you.

Have you ever considered that just because they may have read this thread, that they don't have all this info memorized that you asked and maybe they wanted to check their notes when they got back to work on monday? Just a thought

as far as the BZM thing:
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=246
otherwise, it sounds like a question for JoeDirtPharmD since he's the one who ok'd GTM to do the tear down and seemed to have some reservations about Todd's engine and Todd just saying it wasn't his fault and was the tuning etc. He seemed pretty unsure if he even still wanted one of his engines since his already had major issues after just 250 miles or whatever it was

 

Can't we all just get along? It saddens me to see two of the most helpful Vortech guys duking it out over a vendor

 

You took one quote out of a huge thread and didnt include Todd's response .We were all reading what was being said between the two . And there was alot of he said...he said going on . Two sides to every story , and when ethical questions started to come out by members of this site . The thread was closed up quicker than chit .

And Sentry
If all the responses to this thread [ in the last few days ] were positive and people were asking about getting a build just like this one . George and Sam would have responded quicker that chit . And you know they arent going to pass up a blank check...right !

 

i rather not see this thread become a discussion of Joedirt's engine.. we all know it was a cluster fu ck of issues overall......i understand were booger is coming from but not necesarly because of that...cuase i am also interested to see also what happens here and if it will be keeped under the rug too. if the engine is an issue...
BUt again...4 booger is best if he starts his own thread, cuase this one is getting too far OT.

 

Off topic ????

GTM started this thread them selves . The customer never has posted . I asked questions about the before dyno...George has read them and decided to not respond . So then I asked more questions about the ethics of GTM . Ethical questions about this build and other situations involving GTM .

 

last I remember, JoeDirt gave the ok for GTM to do the tear down and wasn't comfortable with Todd doing it. The responsibility was on him and he knew what he was getting himself into by having GTM do the work.

if GTM is unethical for trying to sell him on the idea of using their services, I don't know any ethical businesses then

IMO GTM's in house built engines are superior to Todd's, so I don't think Sam was wrong by trying to sell JoeDirt a superior product

 

you guys are all jus plain lame... its not ur car... why worry.

 

what I meant about off topic was as in talking about joedirt's engine..which as you can see, can potentially become post after post only about it...thats it...
I do see you point, and that the engine is a bit extreme for the numbers it put out on this thread(the on topic part), but we cannot judge until the owner of the car responds, if he got talked about a MUST have for his setup or not.
I am not tryign to get in a **** war discussion here with you or anything like that, just telling you what looks like major potential OffTopic and what can still be on topic so that the thread doesnt get closed or anything by the mods.

 

You and I know there was much more than that to it . It wasnt that simple , and Im sure Sam had more influance on Joedirt''s decision to let him tear the motor apart . Sam showed his true colors when he reported on the motor when it was tore down .