funkymonkey1111

Well, the question we'd have to ask (from an internal marketing cost/benefit analysis) is this--Assume the $35 track day is dead. Do you want to pay $100 (or whatever sum it is) to run the NASA event and get 80 minutes of track time, or would you be willing to pay $150 (or whatever) to get the track to yourself and 6 buddies for the whole day?

of course, the latter number obviously has to be within reason.

Robert_K

iTrader: (25)

You know I'm there! Of course its like math: Not Working + $$$ = Me Racing! LOL

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

That's an interesting question. The cost/benefit analysis is baffling from the standpoint of having (in the past) $35/car test and tune rates at LaJunta and only attracting 5-6 Zs to a HPDE. By way of contrast, check the road race/autocross section and look at the thread for a single Laguna Seca track day. Cost per entry is $285 and I assume they have some type of liability insurance in place!

So the key question remains: outside of the 5-6 guys who have posted here, is there enough interest within the 350Z community to even continue to offer a HPDE/track day in the future? The planning and logistics involve some work to set up and tracks like PMI need a minimum of 10 cars to even reserve a date. Maybe opening the events up to other marques and drivers is the only option?

funkymonkey1111

while a lightweight explanation, i shrugged off the track days recently because of the high mileage of my car--essentially trying to nurse the warranty along. now, that's not an issue. once the brakes are fixed, i'll be ready to join you guys

rjg

iTrader: (2)

Let's start a list of who would seriously signup to do a bunch of track days. I know I would be willing to pay 150 or so (the less the better - 'natch). I would love to have 5-6 track days a year, hell the more the better actually!

Let's get organized and make this happen!

Track day List:
1) rjg

youngZ33

iTrader: (1)

Let's start a list of who would seriously signup to do a bunch of track days. I know I would be willing to pay 150 or so (the less the better - 'natch). I would love to have 5-6 track days a year, hell the more the better actually!

Let's get organized and make this happen!

Track day List:
1) rjg
2) youngz33

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

Glad to see some of the new Z owners jump onto this thread and express some interest. Of course, I'd be interested in participating. But my question is, are you organizing a track day or HPDE?

Do a search on the SW forums and you'll see there is a difference.

rjg

iTrader: (2)

Hmm... good question. I will look into that point in detail.

I can say this much however, and maybe that determines the 'classification' for us. I did a recent zclub day over at the Golden State Trooper training ground and from what they were saying to me, the big thing is insurance costs (obviously). Perhaps that isn't an issue at a full-on track such as LaJunta - I would think they have that covered already? I've never been to LaJunta, so maybe this thinking is flawed (versus something like PMI).

If insurance is an issue then that would be the major limiting factor. Essentially the biggest expense to do an event like the one in Golden is the cost of insurance. If that's not an issue than I guess it's up to us.

I'm just not sure what qualifies as an HPDE, versu a 'Track Day'. I will research this more and update later.

funkymonkey1111

rtg,

what i'm doing is merely floating ideas out there for the potential for organizing a club to possibly get by some of the issues that are likely to arise at the la junta track after the fatalies this summer.

what i envision is that were there to be a club formed, it would require a significant dues payment, which would be essentially a pro-rata share of an insurance policy that would be used to hopefully get in the door of la junta or PMI or wherever. the policy would be a liability policy for the acts of the members, not on the vehicles themselves. in fact, proof of track insurance would probably lessen premiums on the original policy--just so you know, not every auto policy covers track time, even if its not racing.

of course, details would have to be worked out, but the yearly or policy period committment would be irrevocable--you join the co-op, you pay, whether you use the track time or not. such a club could not survive if 10 people on an internet board say "yeah, i'll do it" then chicken out or cheap out or complain that a track day is inconvenient.

then, there would have to be an assessment or fee by the track, etc. for the daily use fee, etc. so, as gary and david have said, this very well may spiral out of control. but, the point of the club and club's own policy would be to open the door to private, organized and structured track days (hopefully). of course, la junta may tell us to take a hike, too.

if you want to take the reigns on this very loose venture, go ahead--the more info we get, the better informed decisions on feasibility will be.

psyclone

If you don't mind a non-350z participant, I would sign up for the track group. I may be able to convince other drivers to join, too. Maybe the best approach is to join forces with other car clubs ...

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

Good discussion here; but it might be a good time to define exactly what kind of liability policy most tracks are looking for. These policies cover potential damage from your car hitting their property and/or potential legal action arising from an accident against track ownership.

As for insurance against damage to your nice, shiny vehicle- these policies do not offer any protection. And if you're injured, your own medical insurance will be called upon to cover the costs!

So the liability insurance is meant to protect the track, not any of the participants. They also have a liability waiver that each participant is asked to sign. Sound one sided? It is! But that's the reality.

It is why I've come to realize why organizations like the SCCA have such an advantage. They offer not only liability insurance to cover the track, but also gap insurance to cover medical expenses above and beyond what most individual policies offer (for SCCA members participating in sanctioned events). Couple that with good race official training, rules mandating emergency workers, procedures and ambulances on-site and it becomes a complete package. To my knowledge, no other race organization offers such a combination and I doubt many would want to expend the $$ to match it.

So let's not have any illusions about what we can offer as a club, co-op or any other entity!

rjg

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the info guys.

I suggested a list to simply gauge interest in such a club – no more no less.

Obviously there is a lot involved with doing something like this. While there are a lot of issues to resolve, it's not impossible to do otherwise, how does the z car club of Colorado manage to do 2 events a year?

My thinking is simply based on taking what they do twice a year and making that a 5-6 time a year happening; it would be sole point of the club.

If others are interested, add your name to the list. I still think the first step is to gauge how much interest there is in this type of specific club.

And yes, this would be open to non-nissan 350z as well. If the zcccp track day in Golden 2 Saturday's ago is any indication of how this will go, we will definitely need plenty of drivers signed up to make it happen.

GaryM05

I would be interested in something like this, but the cost would be a big determining factor. Between SCCA, NASA, and ZCCC I'm already paying several hundred (if not thousand) dollars a year on track time (that figure is just event registration fees and includes no equipment or vehicle costs at all), and I'm not in a real big hurry to add to that cost.

What's being proposed here (6 ZCCC-style track days per year) basically sounds like what NASA offers, with the possibility of more track time per day than what they offer. I would highly recommend that everyone interested in something like this participate in a NASA HPDE event next year, to see if that fits the bill for what you're looking for. That organization is HIGHLY focused on structured education (it's not just a wide-open track day), and can acommodate anyone from a first timer (who gets assigned an in-car instructor at no extra charge) to an advanced track-runner who is looking for wide-open passing.

Also, history shows that if the group being discussed in this thread gets 20 people at this point to say that they're interested, only about 5 of those will actually pony up the cash when push comes to shove (a quick review of track day threads in this forum will bear that out), which will likely raise the fees for everyone.

I don't want to sound discouraging, as I think this is a great idea, but there's a lot of ground-work to be done to get it off the ground.

rjg

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Gary - I don't take it as discourging at all. Just being realistic, which is great. I'm new to this whole track day thing, something I've wanted to do for a looong time but until recently, didn't have car worth doing it in. After having my first try at it, I'm hooked and just want to get greedy and do it as much and as oftern as I can. Unfortunately, because of the lack of nearby tracks, I don't know if I'll be able to get even remotely close to satisfying my hungry for more track days. Hence my suggestion we try to get organized to focus on that.

I'm going to look into the groups you mentioned. I'm not against trying to help organize something like this if there is enough interest, but why re-invent the wheel if something like NASA fits the bill already?

I agree too, that it's one thing to chime in on a msg board saying you would do something versus the reality of ppl actually throwing down hard earned cash to do it...

Anyway, thanks again for the info.

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

Good points. In 2007 I'll most likely have memberships and racing licenses in both SCCA and NASA. Unlike GaryM05, I also have a considerable investment in racing equipment and plan to use all of it. Reinventing the wheel might be coining a phrase, but it's not far off the mark. Going with an established club has got to be more cost-effective than trying to organize another one.

For what it's worth, there are probably four-five more hard-core 350Z track fiends you could add to your list (including mine), but IMHO that still doesn't give us the numbers or resources to formally organize a track club.

I'm not giving up, by any means! But what I have in mind for 2007 will be much more informal and hopefully provide track time at a reasonable cost.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I'm up for anything next year. Anyone have a long driveway we could speed around on? Better yet, the little road that circles the mall down here has a lot of elevation changes and a good mix of turns. Maybe we could cone that off at night and go around on it. It's lighted and has plenty of parking space!
Will

GaryM05

LOL! I can see it now...we'll have the first annual '12 Hours of Colorado Springs' in the mall parking lot.

A GT4 LAN party is sounding more and more like the best viable option for lots of 'track' time.

jgray

If you hear of one of those, let me know.. I'll blast the doors off anyone who dares challenge! It's a good idea actually, when you consider the change of season is upon us.

Joel

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

Sounds like SOMEONE needs to start a new thread! I'll come and eat popcorn to watch and learn about virtual racing...

rjg

iTrader: (2)

Does it have to be GT4? There are so many better, more realistic racing games out these days...

EDIT: Actually, scratch that. I know how religious people get about GT4.