Azrael,

Do you get as much brake dust from the Hawk HPS break pads as stock?

Are they good street / track pads?

Over all how do you like them?

(anyone esle with break pad suggestions please chime in)

Thanks... Chris

 

I can't play on Friday but I can on Saturday.

Chris-- Ive been running on Axxis Ultimate pads on advice from dkmura and have a set in the mail as we speak. The pads spew a lot less dust than the stock pads and seem to be fairly forgiving on the rotors. They are a kevlar/ceramic compound and run about $70.00 for a set for the front. www.axxisbrakes.com

Gary-- What is your opinion of these pads?

Joe

 

I will be there on Friday for sure. I'm looking foward to it.

On another note I will e-mail this thread to the group to see if we can stir some interest from the notables who have yet to reply to this thread. Gary........I think you know who I am talking about.

Brian

 

Thanks for the email.

Checking for Friday...but have had a bit of sick days (and going on vacation starting today till Oct 4th) so I am going to assume getting another Friday off won't fly.

November 13th though sounds like a great day to me.

 

Fizz -

the Hawk HPS are great street pads for the non-brembos in terms of price, street performance, and MUCH lower dusting.

The only real downside is a bad squeak during low-speed, low-pedal pressure situations. I applied a goopy anti-squeal material to the back of the pad and the shims, but it doesn't seem to have fixed the situation.

I can't speak to their track performance, but I can guess based on what I know about the OEM brake system and the temperature/friction characteristics of the pads. My feeling is that they are definitely not up to the task of heavy use on the track.

In order to preserve my pads and my bank account, I'm intending to run 3-4 hard laps followed by a cool down lap throughout the HPDE. The stock brake system is simply not capable of handling the heat generated by hauling a 3300 lb car down from speed repeatedly.

The fact that the Hawk HPS pads have a limited maximum operating temperature (MOT) as a result of being a street pad, they will start to glaze if that temperature is exceeded. Given that this is a fun HPDE event and not timed competition, I'm going to take it easy and be careful with the brakes.

As an ultimate solution to the issue, I'm saving money (slowly) for a StopTech 13" front brake kit, which I'll hopefully have before next summer.

 

by the way.. what time are we meeting at the Larkspur exit?

 

Joe - If I had known that you were looking for some Axxis Ultimates, I would have offered you my leftover set. They're not new (probably have around 15,000 miles & a handful of track days on them) but if you're in a bind, they're better than scrambling at the last minute to try to find a vendor with them in stock who can ship them quickly.

As for what I think of them, I think they're a good combination pad for street (if you don't mind the dust) and light track use for a first or second track day (or a short-notice, impromptu track day for the more experienced if you can be prepared to deal with fade.) They will fade towards the end of the later sessions and at the end of the day, but for anyone who isn't sure how much they'll enjoy a track day and isn't quite ready to splurge on true dedicated track pads and the tools & time to swap them before and after each track event, I think they're a viable solution.

Will and David (Bottom) are currently trying the EBC Redstuff Ceramic as a compromise dual-purpose pad, so they can probably add their thoughts on that compound to this topic as well (in fact I think they've already gone into detail in some previous threads, so a quick search through our previous track day threads in the SW forum for anyone wondering about different compounds would probably turn up some good results.)

I think Azrael's plan of going hard for 3-4 laps and then taking a cooldown throughout the day (after the early, low-speed familiarization laps) on the HPS compound (or any other non-track pad) is a good one. This will also help prevent overheating of other critical components (tires, driver, etc) and isn't a bad plan for anyone not used to or not prepared to run some slightly longer sessions.

Once we move into the open track sessions later in the day, everyone will be running for different durations at different intervals anyway, so it's not like there's going to be any pressure to run for more time, or at higher speeds, than anyone is comfortable doing. Some will be running longer sessions with shorter breaks, and other will be doing the opposite. It's all about running at your own comfort level (or Michael Schumacher's comfort level, if your last name happens to be Muramoto!) and slowly pushing that level further and further.

In my opinion, anyone can still have a lot of fun and learn more about their car than is possible on the street without making the financial and time commitment that comes with track pads/fluid/eventual BBK/etc (those expenses come after you get addicted...which for the new guys should be by about 11 am on October 8th!) You just have to be willing to come into the paddock every few laps to cool down.

As for meeting time, I think we'll be meeting at the Larkspur rest-stop at 8 am (planning on leaving there by 8:15,) but the final call on that will be David's.

And for anyone who doesn't have one yet: now is the time to find a helmet for the event...don't wait until the last minute!

And I agree with Brian...hopefully we'll see some of the folks who have 'gone dark' recently.

Gary

 

Since you brought up helmets... I have a few full-face helmets for use with my motorcycle, but I'm thinking they are going to be hot and bulky in the car. Someone mentioned in an earlier post about SA rated helmets. What's the difference and where should I look for one? It's not like there are a lot of auto racing stores around (that I'm aware of).

Joel

 

SA helmets are rated as such because they can take repeated blows, like during a rollover. M rated are not from my understanding.

I like a place called www.helmetcity.com for my helmets.

Their prices are some of the cheapest around and they should be able to get you one before next Friday.

Brian

 

Brake Pads: I have only used the EBC Redstuff pads and I have been pretty happy with them. I am also using the Motul Dot 4 brake fluid. I use the pads only on the track and the drive back and forth. They work really well once they heat up and once they are hot they can stay that way. They are not a good street brake pad because they don’t work very well at low temperatures, they’re noisy, and they create a lot of dust. Even after a similar track day at La Junta I was able to get my brakes to literally smoke, but I didn’t have any issues. Changing the pads for every track day is a pain in the a$$, but it also force me to do a visual inspection of my tires, rotors, pads, anything else in the wheel wells. It takes me a little over a half an hour. When I was looking for pads before my first track day I wanted something that I could leave in for the street and the track that would not create a lot of dust. Those type of pads don’t exist. I figure for expensive pads ceramic I would reserve them for special days, Track days, my wedding, etc. In general and IMHO I would go with a pad that is meant for the track only, this way it is one less thing you have to worry about (Gary’s advice). Since I am a new driver to the track, I think it is important to minimize all the extra problems or issues that may occur, like brake fade, a Stillen exhaust that keeps coming out of the hangers, tires, or whatever. This way it is easy to learn the track and all the challenges that arise to become better, faster, and more consistent.

Helmets: I have been using my Arai motorcycle helmet for the past track days. It meets all the safety requirements and it seems to be as bulky as a racecar helmet, but I’m short and I have plenty of headroom anyway. With the screen up it doesn’t get too hot.

I finally asked for the 8th off. I’m looking forward to it.
David

 

3-4 laps is all I'm good for anyway, everyone knows that.

My five pound package arrived today. Thanks for the offer.

I'm just bummed that the 8th couldn't be negotiated with the powers that be.

Joe

 

I wouldn't worry too much about a full-face helmet being too hot and bulky in the car...after the first few laps, you really won't notice it. The safety trade-off vs. an open-faced helmet is worth it, in my opinion. For a first or second track event, I would think that an M-rated helmet would be okay. Beyond that, though, it will be time to start thinking about shelling out a bit more cash for a proper SA-rated road racing helmet.

By the way, in addition to what Mudd mentioned above about the difference between SA and M, the SA is also fire-resistant. Many M-rated helmets are fire-resistant as well, but it's a requirement of all SA helmets to have a Nomex liner, whereas it's just a manufacturing option for an M-rated one.

One other note when you're shopping for a helmet is to be sure you get one that can fit comfortably in the car. When I was shopping for mine, I found several helmets that were comfortable fits in the store, but only one that didn't touch the headliner when I wore it in the car.

There are several race-helmet shops up here in Denver, but I'm not sure of any in Colorado Springs...you might try calling a motorcycle shop (they always sell helmets) and ask them if they know of any local shops that sell SA-rated helmets. Good luck!

 

Joel-
there are no shops in the Springs that carry SA helmets. Some places can special order them, but if you're cool buying a helmet without actually trying it on, then just order online at helmetcity and save some coin. If you go to Denver there are several shops. I would HIGHLY recommend Morten's Motorsports Supply. They carry Arai, Bell, Stand21, Bieffe, Simpson, and Sparco. In other words, they have a great selection. They are located in North East Denver, I am not sure of the street, but I found directions on Mapquest by typing the store name. Another shop, Autosport Werks, is in Denver and carries helmets in stock, but not even close to the selection at Morten's. Plus they didn't like my Z, I guess they are Porsche specialists. Go figure.
I run the Redstuff as well, and David pretty much summed it up. They suck on the street when cold, but after a couple of 100-0 stops they bite really well with little to no fade at the end of the day. The brakes might light on fire, but they still work.
I'll make the 8th for sure, but might not lap that mutch. My new tranny feels really wierd to me, the new clutch take-up is way higher than before, and my pads might not show up on time. Plus, I don't have the go light from work yet, not to mention my class will make me late anyhow. So, I might only be there for a couple hours at most.

 

AWESOME!!! You planning to leave the aero kit on, or take it off? Either way, you're going to have an experience you won't regret. David is super at getting people to understand their cars better. You'll walk away (head still spinnin) with tons of skills you never knew you had. I wish that all people had this opportunity to find out how much they DIDN'T know!!!

Group size is looking great!!!

Will: You still going to make it?

 

Kit stays on. Maybe I'll need to use it for a snow plow, hehe. No, it has to come off one more time this winter, but that is the last time, takes too long. I'll just take it gentle to get the feel of everything.

beeman

 

Sorry I couldn't post yesterday. Let's meet at 8:00 am at the rest stop on I-25 just south of the Larkspur exit. It's only about 5 minutes south of Castle Rock on the highway and our hope will be that when we leave at 8:15 am SHARP that rush hour in the Springs will be winding down.

Be sure to bring your helmet, tools and spares. I'll plan to bring along my lightweight jack and hope that it won't get used much. Also be sure to bring a hat, sunglasses, something cold to drink and snacks/lunch. We will NOT be stopping to go into town for lunch, but we will take breaks at PMI itself.

There are minimal accomodations at PMI (port-a potties and the like) and very little shade, but the course makes up for it. I'll have an agenda/syllabus and printed materials available for each person, as usual. Finally, unless it's SNOWING or HAILING, we're GOING! Inclement conditions (fog, rain, etc.) may lower the limits a bit, but there is even more to learn during those times.

So kick the tires and light those fires! Gear up for Friday!

 

I'm back from Milwaukee, the new transmission is in and tested (2000 mile test run) and I have the day off. I'll be there!!!

 

Whoa Hooooo!!!!

How many does that make so far, eleven (11)?

dkmura (David)
GaryM05 (Gary)
Bottom (David)
zz-notop (Craig)
Beeman (sorry, forgot your name)
Resolute (Will)
Jgray (Joel)
Azrael (?????)
Fizz2 (Chris)
Mudd (Brian)
peterputter (Don)

 

I'm confirmed to go, I have the day off and my car will be ready to go Thursday night. With all the cars leaving from Larkspur it should be a sight for all the people driving to work that day, ha ha.

 

I had no idea this was going to be such a great turn-out. David, bring some subscription forms will ya?

Joel