alpine

Those of you who attended the meet yesterday already know this, but for those that left early, arrived late, and/or just didn't come by there is some new news.

Brainstorm will be holding another meet & BBQ on Saturday July 23rd.

David, from APS will be present and available for those specific technical and performance related questions all day.

And like last time, the single turbo roadster and twin turbo g35 will be present and available for ride alongs and possible test drives.

Brainstorm will be open at 9:00-6:00 and the BBQ will officially be up and running by noon!

The dyno will also be available for anyone who is interested and if anyone is one a tight schedule let me know beforehand and we can scheduled between 10:00AM and 5:30PM (You'll need about 30 minutes).

bobowah

iTrader: (5)

that's pretty cool of brainstorm to have this event...

I hope david does not **** off too many people with this attitude... but congrats on the cool event.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Wait David Inall is going to be at Brainstorm in July.....you better pray to God that the LS1 and Mustang guys don't hear about that. Some of them are still looking to end it for him after the Incon fiasco...

alpine

I hadn't heard about this whoe thing until this particular message, mainly because I'm not a member of the Camaro and/or Mustang community, and of course not forced induction until last year.

This particular scenario is not good under any circumstances, but I would like to put a few pennies out there for thought.

We don't really know what happened there with David Inall, unless someone has first had evidence, and has all the inner workings of Incon, I don't believe it's possible to say that David Inall was the only one responsinble for this incident, or why things turned out as they did.

A company is rarely solely owned and operated by one person, and unless that company can produce the actual product itself, it would have to rely on other company and resources for that said product.

We don't know, what exactly happened with who/what/where in this equation, all we really know is that people got screwed, and david inall's name got stuck to this.

From what I can tell this happened sometime mid-late 2002, and I guess wrapped up mid-2003. Incon offered turbo kits, took deposits, had problems, delivered some kits, didn't deliver the rest, and returned money to an unknown number of people.

So now David works for APS, and he is a senior engineer. That is his position because that's what he knows, and that's what he does for APS. David has a long history with Forced Induction/Turbos and that's what he's needed for.

Any concerns about product performance, technical aspects, including manufacturing and delivery are ultimately in the hands of APS , not david.

So long as you see APS as a company that can produce and deliver the product you want, buy it and use it, otherwise you can move onto to another company/product

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Unfortunately I knew an LS1 guy who got screwed in this deal. And let me say its not a pretty as you make it out to be. First off VERY few kits were actually delivered and even fewer people got their money back. There were a total of THREE people involved in this fiasco and all of them even Dave at the time admit it was Dave's own fault for accepting hundreds of thousands in customer money and not delivering anything. Dave is the only one who knows where that money want. His two employees stateside got left hanging with no product and no money to give back. So as for trusting a company that Dave works at hey its up to you.Obviously they made good and delivered your kit so thats great for them and for everyone. The last thing I want to see is what happened with Incon happen again with APS. There are still plenty of LS1 and Mustang guys that would LOVE to get their hands on Dave though. Wouldn't you if someone ripped you off for $6k? My point is that aside from SEMA Dave is never really here and even at SEMA APS certainly doesn't go around announcing it as a great event. My point was that i hope your get together doesn't get ruined by some LS1 and Mustang guys. It appears that bobwah has also had the "pleasure" of meeting Dave before. He's kind of like Peter but with a well documented history as a crook. Either way good luck. Have fun I guess.

Zcool

i hope your get together doesn't get ruined by some LS1 and Mustang guys. It appears that bobwah has also had the "pleasure" of meeting Dave before. He's kind of like Peter but with a well documented history as a crook. Either way good luck. Have fun I guess.[/QUOTE]


I have no knowledge of the so called rip off you refer to so can't really take sides but you use some pretty strong words to describe your interpretation on what transpired. If there was something illegal in the incident you cite then there should be outstanding arrest warrant for the so called crook. If no such warrant exists then I think you should back off on using such a word. Not all failed businesses are due to fraud or corruption. Creditors and customers get "stuck" all the time. That doesn't make them a victim of a crime.

NOBI

iTrader: (1)

i think you guys are focusing on the wrong thing here. he is coming here to answer questions you have about his kit, to settle your concerns so to speak, so that you have a better understanding of why aps is as much as it is, and what it has to offer. he's not here to sell turbo kits to you, thats brainstorms job. in my opinion APS makes hands down the best turbo kit for the z, so far blowing no ones motor, anyone who is considering going FI in the future regardless of choice (turbonetics, greddy, pe, aps) should come and get information on these systems in general and speak with the people who tune them for a living.

alpine

Miaplya, thanks for the information that you brought, and I do mean that.

Hopefully everyone knows how to make the right decision on who to deal with, and that's where we should leave it.

I was not making anything pretty, I was just making sure that people consider that not knowing the entire situation first hand, makes it difficult to pass judgement onto people, and it doesn't help to spread rumors, regarldess of portions of it being accurate.

I wouldn't want anyone to get unwittingly burned for any money, so whether it's 10.00 or 6K it's not right.

I bought the APS kit without knowing who David was, because I am buying the product, not dave. I would admit that if the company I wanted to buy a product from was owned and operated by David, and I knew what I know now, clearly I would reconsider and/or make additional effort to insure my products arrival.

Since david does not own/operate APS, it is of no concern, and for what portion david is repsonsible for the technical aspects of my kit, I am gratefull because clearly it works, reliable, and performs beyond expectation.

The event will be fine and if someone shows up to cause trouble, I'm sure it will be brief and minor and everyone will go on with their lives.

Again, thanks for the info, and lets all just have a good one.

bobowah

iTrader: (5)

well don't get me wrong...

The APS turbo kit is one of the most complete turbo kit there are on the market for the 350z.

The history of APS is as a side project for the owner who makes most of his money building and selling parts for the SUV market in Austrialia. The owner bought a WRX as a grocery getting and then started dumping money into his pet project and then you get APS a company that makes cars go fast.

Again personally I just found it hard to deal with the individuals at the company, APS.

alpine

bump

alpine

I had gotten a couple messages that people thought this might have been a past meet or something along those lines.

This is going to be this coming Saturday @ brainstorm performance Los Angeles, we had some great people and cars come by, and hope to see
them again.

thanks!

sbcbaseball

iTrader: (4)

See u There Alpine.... Thnx for setting this up bro having a engineer present so we can bounce questions off of him will be very informative.

alpine

NP!

Did you get anything for your car lately?, last time we met up you had your eyes on a few things...

sbcbaseball

iTrader: (4)

Still in same boat bro. Suspension and brakes are done all i need now is some twins. Ever since i drove your car i feel like my car is getting slower and slower hahahaa....shoot me a pm let me know what time your are gonna be at brainstorm so we can meet up..

ihatethatbobbarker

where is brainstorm im gonna be in huntington beach, so if its not far...

ive never met david, but i did talk to peter once and he was a dick

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Well good luck and congrats on the good event it sounds like. Dave is kind of like Peter. Except Dave actually knows the engineering side of turbos well.

ihatethatbobbarker

so hes an ******* with a good excuse? ill get along great with him then, its the ******** that dont know **** i cant stand.

Zcool

I'll be coming down from Santa Cruz with my 350Z Roadster with APS TT. Brainstorm did the install back in Dec. It'll be nice to see all the guys at Brainstorm and meet David.

alpine

Brainstorm Performance Inc. (310) 313-0088
12568 Washington Blvd, Culver City, CA 90230

As far as dealing wth APS personell, we all know they have a particular attitude, and everyone is going to deal with it in their own way.

I'm not going to tell you that I love the people at APS, because I don't...

What I can tell you is that I DO LOVE my aps twin turbo kit.

It took me over 6 months from "I want forced induction" to owning the kit I have now.

There were 2 reasons I ended up with it, first off was Brainstorm service and attention to detail. I went to them last on my list of shops because I thought they were going to be "ridiculous" in concept/pricing. I was pleasantly surprised after checking into the other owners & shops that I was getting a good deal for the quality and reliability I was looking for.

I went with the APS kit because it was the best kit in design and components available. I would never go with Greddy (for my own personal reason/thinking that Greddy is crap [I know, I know, there are all kinds of great Greddy cars out there and they are all happy{good for them}]) and I knew that Supercharging wasn't going to cut it for me in the long run, and I wasn't going to be able to wait any more the JWT, and I just didn't trust the other companies that were coming with a TT kit for the 350.

Notice in I didn't say "I just thought the guys at APS were wonderfull and that sold me on the product".

So let's get back on track about product and performance, and we'll leave the personal issues aside. If you don't like APS personell, and that is a reason for you to go elsewhere, so be it as that's everyones choice.

Whatever product you want to go with, what is going to make the biggest difference is the relationship with your shop/tuner, and their relationship with the manufacturer.

Miaplaya has a good relationship with Turbonetics, and that's great but I doubt that Brad (VP @ Turbonetics and who I personally respect) is going to be available for every caller/customer that is interested in their kit and I don't believe they will be doing installs & maintenance for their customers.

I don't know how the other manufacturers work in regards to offering services aside from the product, but that is why I'd say you need to make sure you are going to get what you want from the shop you choose.

NOBI

iTrader: (1)

i will be there, too bad its not carne asada this time. last time i just went home and passed out from the euphoric combination of forced induction and carne asada. see you saturday.