uplz4588

i guess im just going to get a Lspec + Safc2

ZBoater

I've added a ton of NA mods and have never had a need to reflash. I've had consistent dyno hp readings (until i installed the NISMO flywheel and the dealer had to replace the clutch) with great A/F readings every time . I am thinking of adding an A/F gauge just for grins but every single dyno I've done has come in between 13.5 and 12.6.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

yeah, i agree it's possible that the stock ECU can run the A/F just fine

....trouble is, as stated in that link with the nissan engineer, how do you KNOW you're getting 100% of the gains from those bolt on parts?

The ECU's job is to keep the car running well and run within emissions spec.

ZBoater, in your case it could be that the stock ECU is able to retain your specific mods within the normal emissions spec either because your gains are not much more than stock, or because the ECU has been able to reach it's equilibrium at a point where things are running fine and the ECU doesn't need to pull timing anymore (you have better gas in FL too)

In my case,
my mods are more aggressive or even with yours
the differences in power are I have:
JWT cams
crawford headers
350EVO throttle body
TS ECU flash with more aggressive timing maps

I think maybe in my case, it pushes me beyond the edge of the ECU being able to compensate, so it runs in fail safe mode when it runs out of options to make the emissions requirements happy.

Just like the Nissan engineer said, if you go do an emissions test with a stock Z and a highly modded Z and the emissions is the same or roughly the same, you haven't done much other than change the sound of the car.

In your case, you might be on the edge where the ECU actually CAN deal with your mods so that's good for you in your case

ZBoater

I had pulled 276hp at the wheels before my flywheel fiasco. Here is a link to the dyno chart

http://www.quiros.net/350z/dynos/101604DYNO.jpg

I didnt do a baseline, so I dont know how much improvement over stock that is, but given that most stock dynos I've seen are in the 240something range, that sounds like a 30hp improvement, which is not bad. My hesitation with the ECU reflash is that, realistically, how much more can I expect from this NA setup (cams are in the plan) and is it worth it for $600? I would reflash in a heart beat if I were running lean, since the last thing I want to do is damage the engine, but to squeeze out an extra few hps for that kind of money, I'd rather waste it on a NISMO graphics and body kit (oops, already did that )

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

yeah, i agree - the 2 main reasons I did the TS flash was to raise my redline so I don't keep doing fuel cut off and to get my car tuned better. I agree with you though, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Take caution with the cams though, if my theory is right, that might push your ECU too far to be happy

I think that I crossed some sorta threshold though when I got my TS flash because ever since I had it flashed my car has been going into safe mode. I've gone back and forth 3 times as well as them actually tuning my car in their shop and it always goes into safe mode on the 2nd startup.

I'm throwing a multi misfire code, but what would cause the misfire?
Ultimately there's quite a few things that could be causing it, but it doesn't explain the fact that my car drives WAY better when I reset the ECU and after the ECU throws that code it starts driving like crap. It sounds exactly like the symptoms that safe mode has and reacts in the same way safe mode might be activated.

I tried putting in 1 step colder plugs which TS recommended to me to try. That didn't help anything except me to lose a little power.

Note that different dynos give off different A/F numbers and tail pipe measurements are not totally accurate - not as accurate as a wideband O2

Z PHAT Z

iTrader: (46)

DARN! Reading all these posts makes me more confused I was deciding between the S-AFC II and TS flash. Then I chose to tune the S-AFC and got about 10WHP. On the dyno during tuning, I didn't have any knocks. I was so happy and the car felt great. Now after couple days of driving, the S-AFC showing lots of knocks. So I don't know what to do now. Will bring back to the shop and let them check it out, but I doubt that there is nothing they can do about it. Now I want to get the TS flash, but stumped on this post makes me change my mind again. I'm on 93 octane gas btw. Hope something will comes out soon to solve this problem.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

sorry to hear that man but it makes perfect sense to me

the S-AFC II is a piggyback

it only knows how to add or subtract X amount of fuel at a given RPM

I remember reading Chris's post on using the Greddy piggyback, getting it tuned just perfect only to find that kept changing on him and he wouldn't gain any power and in the end he just got frusturated.
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....hlight=emanage

you tuned your A/F based on the ignition mapping the ECU was currently using at the time of your tune. Then once you leveled out the fuel to a good mapping, the ECU later determined that too much fuel was being used which is bad for emissions.

It cut fuel and you started knocking, and maybe started pulling timing over time.

Everyone without an EMS or a way to fool the ECU with fake MAF voltages has been tuning their car to an ever changing variable

zxsaint

The SAFCII alters the MAF signals to the ECU. E-Manage modifies injector duty cycles.

can350z

iTrader: (1)

Getting misfires after my Nismo cams install, bumped the idle to 850..no change... Found a vacuum leak, problem went away... Check for vacuum leaks, my problem was due to the 2 gaskets that you use with the Crawford plenum... Needed to be re-torqued after a few weeks of heat cycling.. My idle also improved a little.. less lope.... All is well now...

R

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

thanks can350z, I'll see if I can retorque my plenum down and see if there's any change

jkoc

Two gaskets on crawford?? the crawford plenum uses stock gasket and regular TB gasket.... youre saying there was a vacuum leak there?

can350z

iTrader: (1)

Crawford includes a second trimmed main plenum gasket.. You just place one on top of the other... Others have mentioned re-torque after a few weeks as well...

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

i had a brand new nissan gasket installed on mine, not the one crawford included...was installed at performance nissan, but i could see it being possible that some bolts are looser than they used to be.

Still kinda doubt it's causing my problems, but I'll try tightening them when i get home anyway - hope i'm wrong and you're right

uplz4588

i dont understand 1 thing about all of sentrys posts... how do all these FI cars w/ the emanage/unichip/ss box keep in spec? they seem to be keeping steady A/F's and timings why cant NA do the same?

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

well since I don't have the personal experience of every FI owner I'm not going to fend for every FI car's individual setup with their individual engine management hardware/software, with how often they tune etc, but am welcome to people adding more info

DomZ

This thread is great, keep the insight coming. I want to go full bolt ons (includings cams/3.53 if they're considered "bolt-ons") and I want to essentially make the best out of my money. I only have TS headers and a JWT, I'm looking to get a UDP, HF cats, and a Plenum spacer inside of a month and install all 5 parts at once. After that, Invidia TD, 3.53 swap, and JWT cams...when ALL of that is said and done, I want to make the right decision with my ECU to free up the necessary resources to make my car perform at its peak.

Z PHAT Z

iTrader: (46)

hmmm...I jsut used 1 OEM gasket to install the Crawford plenum. Never recieved another gasket when I ordered the plenum from Crawford. But I dynoed before and after the plenum with no gain at all. So do you need 2 gaskets to install the crawford plenum? Or using just the OEM gasket is good? Guess I have to do a vacuum test.

Z BOY

iTrader: (41)

when i rec'd my crawford cast, it didn't come with a gasket. i just used the oem. i would call crawford to clarify. the spacers, however, do use two gaskets.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

people might note that if you have an 04 or 05, you can unquestionably permanently raise the idle for cams with an EMS

Had I been aware of the HKS Fcon or if another affordable EMS was on the market for the Z, I wouldn't have gone with the regular TS flash. At the time, the limited spec flash wasn't out.

I don't care so much about goin beyond 160 mph, but I did want my idle permanently raised and the rev limiter raised.

What I don't yet know is if an EMS can override the ECU's rev limiter. So if I wanted to someday rev to 8000 if the EMS can just program it and that be that. In that case, you wouldn't need an ECU flash period.

the mail order flash thing does get old. It's not cheap to dyno, and really sucks going to dyno, then well that's it. You can't do crap other than do a couple runs. You almost always have something that can be tuned better, but with the ECU flash, you just gotta sit there with your hands in your pocket, nod at what needs to be adjusted, then go home, rip out the ECU, mail it, and be without your Z for 3 days only to repeat the process over and over again. The alternative to dynoing is getting a wideband A/F gauge/bung/sensor package and installing it. That alone for any sort of quality kit is worth the cost of 3-5 dynos

I went to technosquare and had them custom tune my car in their shop with their programmers right there. Sure there's a lot of differences between CA and AZ, but it's been frustuting to feel so helpless in the quest to properly tune the car. I don't think a piggyback will really 100% cure the issue, but an EMS might

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions...

+1 DomZ...

I'm hoping to be in the same boat and Zboater Pushing the N/A bolt-ons without going over the top. 270whp would put a lasting grin on my face!

That link to the old thread provided by sentry65 is pretty interesting. My head hurts