AAM / Cipher Diagnostic Tool - Press Release!
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 67
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From: Orlando, FL
Some more aggressive camshafts require an increased idle to prevent the motor from running rough.
Also an increased idle has a better chance of reducing flywheel chatter with aftermarket / lighter flywheels.
Also an increased idle has a better chance of reducing flywheel chatter with aftermarket / lighter flywheels.
Some that have cams need to raise their idle to prevent stalling. I'm thinking the same goes for FI applications, also? I also think some people have a slightly rough idle and bumpung it up just a bit would likely smooth things out a bit.
Plus, it's also cool and they do it in all those furious car films and be like, "yeah, my idle is adjusted for my application".
Plus, it's also cool and they do it in all those furious car films and be like, "yeah, my idle is adjusted for my application".
Originally Posted by BobbyRitz
That's interesting. On your website under the Cipher Functionality Matrix, it indicates that:
1) Target engine RPM works with -'03 + Z's and G's.
2) Corrected Idle RPM works with -'03 + Z's and G's.
You also suggested in post #1 that engine idle can be adjusted.
In post #11 you suggested that engine idle can be raised to 950RPM (no mention of limitations).
Then in post #41 you realize that engine idle RPM cannot be raised on a 04.5. You even say your going to change your "application guide", which I assume is the functionality chart on your website. It's the same chart. It has never been updated.
Don't believe me...look for yourself.
http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/mm5..._Code=STRFRONT
If Cipher cannot raise the engine RPM for 04.5 G's or Z's, maybe your website should be clear about this.
After all, you wouldn't want to sell your customers a product that doesn't provide the functionality that they are looking for...would you?
1) Target engine RPM works with -'03 + Z's and G's.
2) Corrected Idle RPM works with -'03 + Z's and G's.
You also suggested in post #1 that engine idle can be adjusted.
In post #11 you suggested that engine idle can be raised to 950RPM (no mention of limitations).
Then in post #41 you realize that engine idle RPM cannot be raised on a 04.5. You even say your going to change your "application guide", which I assume is the functionality chart on your website. It's the same chart. It has never been updated.
Don't believe me...look for yourself.
http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/mm5..._Code=STRFRONT
If Cipher cannot raise the engine RPM for 04.5 G's or Z's, maybe your website should be clear about this.
After all, you wouldn't want to sell your customers a product that doesn't provide the functionality that they are looking for...would you?
Your advertising is very straight forward^^
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
IMO if you bought a cipher from AAM and you have a 04.5 then AAM should reflash your idle for free, not special pricing, free.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
Your opinions.
I wanted your opinions on my cars current state. I did a few logs. My mods are 5/16 plenum spacer jwt pop charger. I did a few small runs to redline and logged them using the cipher. I dont quite know what the A/F ratio should be for the car. I also noticed that I may gain a descent amount from a tune. I am sorry I cant post a graph, im handicapped when it comes to excel, so I am just posting the file itself in excel format. Thanks for anyone who knows.
Alex
http://webpages.charter.net/doc25398/quickzrun.csv
Alex
http://webpages.charter.net/doc25398/quickzrun.csv
Last edited by Doc25398; Nov 5, 2006 at 05:03 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 183
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From: NJ
Originally Posted by Doc25398
I am sorry I cant post a graph, im handicapped when it comes to excel, so I am just posting the file itself in excel format. Thanks for anyone who knows.
Originally Posted by dovla
Attached is your graph. Good luck
Alex
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT
You are running kind of rich, and your AFR is not very smooth. Tuning would smooth it out, and lean it out a bit, and you shouldgain some torque/HP
according to the chart that was posted, that AFR chart is NOT rich.......
rich would be below about 12.5, and it seems the 350z makes the best torque a little tiny bit over 13 AFR
looks like he's lean all the way throughout, and definitely could use tuning.
In fact around where it hits 15.5 AFR, that is really lean... almost looks like you were not holding the pedal to the floor...
Doc -
next time you log, put it in 3rd gear when you're at low speed, so the RPMs start out about 1500.
(or 4th if you can find a place to go really really fast)
then floor it, and keep flooring it until you hit the rev limiter (you will feel a cut in power)
Also, next time, please log some more parameters: throttle position, ignition timing, just to name a couple.
Last edited by Wired 24/7; Nov 7, 2006 at 08:23 PM.
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
No ... no... no.......
according to the chart that was posted, that AFR chart is NOT rich.......
rich would be below about 12.5, and it seems the 350z makes the best torque a little tiny bit over 13 AFR
looks like he's lean all the way throughout, and definitely could use tuning.
In fact around where it hits 15.5 AFR, that is really lean... almost looks like you were not holding the pedal to the floor...
Doc -
next time you log, put it in 3rd gear when you're at low speed, so the RPMs start out about 1500.
(or 4th if you can find a place to go really really fast)
then floor it, and keep flooring it until you hit the rev limiter (you will feel a cut in power)
Also, next time, please log some more parameters: throttle position, ignition timing, just to name a couple.
according to the chart that was posted, that AFR chart is NOT rich.......
rich would be below about 12.5, and it seems the 350z makes the best torque a little tiny bit over 13 AFR
looks like he's lean all the way throughout, and definitely could use tuning.
In fact around where it hits 15.5 AFR, that is really lean... almost looks like you were not holding the pedal to the floor...
Doc -
next time you log, put it in 3rd gear when you're at low speed, so the RPMs start out about 1500.
(or 4th if you can find a place to go really really fast)
then floor it, and keep flooring it until you hit the rev limiter (you will feel a cut in power)
Also, next time, please log some more parameters: throttle position, ignition timing, just to name a couple.
Thanks alot wired. I will definatly do taht and post the results here for feedback. My old car( a turboed altima 2.5s) was tuned for 11.5 but that was because of it being turboed. My understanding is that if I am running lean, a tune wont necessarily add any more power, but just reliability. In either case, I will have the logs up soon to get more feedback.
Alex
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
No ... no... no.......
according to the chart that was posted, that AFR chart is NOT rich.......
rich would be below about 12.5, and it seems the 350z makes the best torque a little tiny bit over 13 AFR
looks like he's lean all the way throughout, and definitely could use tuning.
In fact around where it hits 15.5 AFR, that is really lean... almost looks like you were not holding the pedal to the floor...
Doc -
next time you log, put it in 3rd gear when you're at low speed, so the RPMs start out about 1500.
(or 4th if you can find a place to go really really fast)
then floor it, and keep flooring it until you hit the rev limiter (you will feel a cut in power)
Also, next time, please log some more parameters: throttle position, ignition timing, just to name a couple.
according to the chart that was posted, that AFR chart is NOT rich.......
rich would be below about 12.5, and it seems the 350z makes the best torque a little tiny bit over 13 AFR
looks like he's lean all the way throughout, and definitely could use tuning.
In fact around where it hits 15.5 AFR, that is really lean... almost looks like you were not holding the pedal to the floor...
Doc -
next time you log, put it in 3rd gear when you're at low speed, so the RPMs start out about 1500.
(or 4th if you can find a place to go really really fast)
then floor it, and keep flooring it until you hit the rev limiter (you will feel a cut in power)
Also, next time, please log some more parameters: throttle position, ignition timing, just to name a couple.
Wired is right, it is rather lean; but it still is not very smooth. Tuning will help both of those.
Dave
Originally Posted by Doc25398
Thanks alot wired. I will definatly do taht and post the results here for feedback. My old car( a turboed altima 2.5s) was tuned for 11.5 but that was because of it being turboed. My understanding is that if I am running lean, a tune wont necessarily add any more power, but just reliability. In either case, I will have the logs up soon to get more feedback.
Alex
Alex
Well I saw significant power increase by tuning to slightly over 13.0 afr (starting from a leaner condition like yours)
below 13 seems to be less power, but 12.5 is probably optimum reliability near redline for N/A without sacrificing too much power
it kinda depends on your combustion chamber... if your combustion chamber is really efficient then it might make better power at 13.5 or something
More logs
I got some more logs for you to check out, if you dont mind. I did this run from 1500rpm to redline in 3rd gear, and also logged a few other paramaters. Sorry about the graphs im still learning how to use excel.
http://webpages.charter.net/doc25398/3rdgear.csv
Alex
http://webpages.charter.net/doc25398/3rdgear.csv
Alex
Doc, your charts are fine, but here's a trick that can help you make a better chart:
when you have 2 data series that are on different scales (for example, AFR is about 10-15 while timing is about 10-40)
right click one of the series, and format the data series.
Go to the Axis tab, and select secondary axis.
Now you can format each axis individually
when you have 2 data series that are on different scales (for example, AFR is about 10-15 while timing is about 10-40)
right click one of the series, and format the data series.
Go to the Axis tab, and select secondary axis.
Now you can format each axis individually