SmokyTyrz

Quick question..


I see things like the Tuner Pro which works with the UTEC to provide the usual data logs, etc, but also offer real-time but succinct LED a/f info, knock info, etc...

So my question is how do they work? Or more specifically, how do they work for you? Are these boxes just data loggers that then require you to pour over the tables look for tuning holes and use experience to adjust the maps? Ie. you need a pro or some decent experience to make use of them?

Or do these tuning boxes work for you and help you to tune by suggesting what needs to be adjusted? I'm trying to figure out if these things are "home tuning aids" when you hook it all up with the wideback and other sensors and then go drive to collect data, and then come home and find that the tuning box highlighted areas in the tables that need adjustment, and/or make recommendations on the adjustments themselves.

Or am I dreamin? lol

Thx
-Smoky

Kenk2

iTrader: (7)

If you have a UTEC, you can simply buy the Tuner Wideband and tune your car.. You can adjust your A/F ratios while logging either on the highway in 4th. gear or on the dyno in 5th. gear.. If you dont have the UTEC you cant change A/f or timing..

If you look a few posts down from this one, you will see I posted logs of my data when I was runnin on the freeway in 4th gear.. The logs show some stock info as well as the adjusted..

Here is a clip..


7107 -17.8 4.49 100 90 00 11.67 +30.9 68.7 +32.6 -5.4 4.23 12.83

Kenk2

iTrader: (7)

The important data is the


7107= Rpm's
100= Throttle %
00= Knock Count
11.67= ECU A/F
+30.9= ECU timing
+32.6= UTEC adjusted timing
12.83= UTEC adjusted A/F

SmokyTyrz

Thx Ken. I'll check out your logs in more detail and see what kind of changes you made.

But my question is how did the tuner instruct you or aid you in the process of deciding which changes to make? You have your OEM map, then your UTEC adjusted MAP... but how did you know what values to start plugging in?

I realize some is trial and error, with trial decisions based on experience and observation of performance and a/f ratios. But does the tuner box help you do this? Does it make suggestions in some way?

Or does the tuner box only log data, and then display that data, and then it is 100% up to you to how to interpret that data?

I ask because they are called "tuning aids" and such, but i still see no evidence that these aids do nothing more than data logging.

Or maybe put another way, if I buy a UTEC, what is the reason that I will then spend $600-$1000 on one of these tuning boxes? What would I use it for? Data logging only or does it help me conduct driveway tuning by making recommendations after logging short drives?

Thanks!
-Smoky

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

And for that matter, why not get a much less expensive zeitronix wideband?

Been debating the need for the turboxs tuner pro vs others to work in conjunction with the UTEC...

(i don't mind the price so much as the bulk of the tuner pro)

Kenk2

iTrader: (7)

The wideband doesnt tell you what to change.. We know that we want our A/F at 12.8:1. Say for instance my log is reading this..

6006 -17.8 4.47 89 90 00 14.17 +25.8 70.2 +24.4 -4.4 4.27 12.27
6016 -17.8 4.47 91 90 00 14.13 +24.7 71.3 +24.4 -4.4 4.27 12.25
6060 -17.6 4.45 95 90 00 13.83 +25.7 71.2 +24.6 -4.3 4.25 12.21
6060 -17.8 4.45 95 90 00 14.01 +25.8 71.4 +24.7 -4.4 4.25 12.25


I am still a tad rich... I need to TAKE AWAY fuel.. So I go into the UTEC and get to my fuel part of that map..

I have the option of changing my ratios every 250 rpm's. So for 6K rpm's I will enter -.5, save to map and go do another run.. - is taking fuel away as + is adding...

Hopefully that will get me really close to 12.8:1

This info is from log #6 so I hadnt started messin with the timing yet..

No. But I do know that something like that is in the works.. Remember, the UTEC is still VERY new...

Absolutely correct, but the funny thing is, its SO DAMN EASY to do, a caveman can do it!

You can PM a few sponsors here and I am sure you can get a UTEC, Tuner wideband and remote switch for $1060 shipped.. You dont need the tuner pro..

Hope this helps..

I am not familiar with the zeitronix and its accuracy.. I know with the tuner wideband you MUST have test pipes or high flow cats with an extra bung drilled and welded for another o2 sensor.. The Tuner wideband requires you to have another o2 sensor, You cant get anymore accurate that that..

SmokyTyrz

Awesome response. That really clears it up!

I know we are chasing stoich through the rpm band via tuning. So is it the case that the UTEC logs enough data by itself via the wideband that I wouldn't need a separate tuner? I wasn't aware that the UTEC did data logging. That's pretty cool!

One more question.. is it the case that when you use the UTEC to make changes that you are only making adjustments to the upper RPM range? And you leave lower rpm's alone? How do you decide where in the rpm band to stop making adjustments?

And if you make lower rpm adjustments, does the UTEC know the difference between 4000 rpm @ full throttle vs 4000 rpm @ partial throttle? Or is that why you do not mess with the lower rpms?

Thx!
-Smoky

Kenk2

iTrader: (7)

Thats a big negative.. I know it sucks but when logging without the wideband the UTEC will not give you any A/F.. You MUST have the wideband.. The Tuner is simply the UTEC's Biatch only needing the WB AFR..

No. When I first started changing my A/F, I was doing so in the range of 2k rpm's to Redline, in my case was 7250..


The logs of course.. When your at 12.8:1 your done tuning that part of the rpm range..


I believe so.. I am still VERY new to the UTEC but from what I have seen, the UTEC will let the ECU take over during certain situations, particulary when you let off the gas and in really low rpm's like >2000 rpm's..

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

The uTEC has several tuning options(open or closed loop fuel control, MAF or MAP control, etc). The adjustments you make are different for each type of tuning, but the result should be the same.

basically, you tell the UTEC at what rpm, load, tps, etc to take over.

for example, on a basic bolt-on N/A car, you may to set your utec to take over at 65% thottle, and above 2500 rpm. both of these criteria have to met before the UTEC would take over. it'll take time to get your adjustments just right so that you can have a seemless take-over. once you are under UTEC control, you create the maps for both fuel and timing. there are 11 loads sites (0% - 100%) and 36 rpm sites. (every 250 rpm up to 9000 rpm) Each is a 2dimensional matrix of load vs. rpm.

the best thing to do is go to www.turboxs.com go into the "downloads" page, and downlaod the 350z utec manual. read ALOT, and you will hopefully understand.

SmokyTyrz

Good idea! I havent gotten around to downloading it yet. Thanks!

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

the tuner pro is a universal wideband for tuning ANY car. all the extra features that it has , except the audible knock feature, are included in the utec.

there is no reason to buy the PRO if you have a utec....

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

Jeremy,

BTW...the UTec is up and running! I called TurboXS regarding the instructions because, as usual for the G, don't match up! They said that you don't use the bracket on the G. "Just wedge it in there." Great! After a few different mounting thoughtd and trials, this is how I got it to work:

Cut off half the stock bracket so that I could mount the stock ECU but have some wiggle to it. then, attach the UTEC but invert it so that the stock wiring harness is now shoved way up into the dash. Thenm use some muscel and wedge it upbetween the A/C filter anf the stock ECU. Finally, zip tie it in place!

woops, I forgot to mention that then I realized that the glove wouldn't fit........next step, take the UTEC out.....press the studs out of the the UTEC, and then bend the UTEC mounts out of the way!!! Don't F w/ me! I'll get it done!!!

Kenk2

iTrader: (7)

LOL!!

Hey the same $hit happened to me bro.. Wouldnt fit the my G either, so I zip tied it up also.. Just an FYI... I had everything all together, Remote switch, wideband, UTEC, EVERYTHING.. I started my car up 1 morning and it was smokin like CRAZY.. Smelled like gas so bad.. Told me I had the 'grounding issue' and was misfiring.. I grounded the black Pin1 wire from the remote switch but I dont think it was good enough.. So I ran heavier wire from the same grounding point to the actual UTEC and ECU, on one of those nuts and that has seemed to work great for me for about a week now... If that happens to you, that is the reason why..

***EDIT: looks like you have half the bracket.. Your prolly fine..***

SmokyTyrz

So what was the cause of the problem? Did you get it fixed? Why did grounding Pin1 on the remote make the problem stop? I ask because I want to learn more about potential troubleshooting issues with the UTEC.

Thx

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I think the answer is "no" but can the UTEC receive wideband O2 input from anything other than the TXS Tuner or Tuner Pro? (so that it logs A/F ratios)?