Great thread rocks. I think nismology's post above is spot on. I believe you will lose power advancing the intake cam above 6500. It should be full retard at the point. In fact if you could retard past 0, it would facilitate increased cylinder filling... Only way to do that is the nismo rockers or different cams of course can change the timing altogether.

 

Well I just zeroed out my exhaust cams from 6400+ and Added more advance on the intake cam, 2 degrees from 4400 rpms+. Bumped the limiter too 8000, really need to be able to shift at 7500 in first and 2nd. The car pulls hard up too the limiter and its begs to keep going. I do have jwt springs and retainers so I should be fine up 7500 rpms. 8000 is just so I wont hit the limiter. Well I am about to flash it, hope the motor doesn't come apart. Wish I had access to a dyno. So the good ol but dyno will have to work this time lols.

 

Well it helped. I could tell a big difference. The motor didnt explode at 8000rpms, and no sign of valve float with the jwt springs. JWT told me I would get valve float at 7200. It felt odd shifting at 8000rpms. I bench marked it against my friends mustang with a 351, I won 3 times this time around ( on a private road ). I really do need a dyno. The car pulls hard all the way up too 7500, can feel a little power dropoff close too 8000, but shifting up there puts me right back in the power band for 3rd. This thing would be retarded with around 12.5:1 compression. I would expect at a 13.0 or faster at my altitude. I need some drag radials so I can launch it at about 5-6k rpms at the track.

 

I'm sure you seen this, but:
https://my350z.com/forum/4707906-post49.html

 

No I have not seen that. The reason for bumping the thread was to try and find out about the cam angles on a revup engine. Funny how the tuners that do have experince with this will never post in a DIY thread. The cam angles are different on a revup, well the exhaust cam anyway.

 

I think UpRev has changed their original direction a bit. Originally they seemed to be providing Osiris to help individuals tune their own cars... along the way they started licensing Osiris to Pro tuners and that probably became more lucrative without adding any liability risk to UpRev.

At one time UpRev planned to have an Osiris web forum for self-tuners to get together and share ideas. That would have been a great help, but the idea seems to have faded away over time.

Tuning VQ engines is still a black art. No pro tuner is going to help someone out that could conceivably take business away from them or demystify their main reason for existing.

 

JWT told you you would get valve float about 7200 WITH their springs/retainers? I hope not though my redline is set at 7100.

I'm supposed to go to the dyno soon when new MD exhaust components come in and I will set up a couple different different intake timing maps (no revup sorry) and see how they do. I'm running at 15 psi though with JWT S2 cams. Not sure how well we'd be able to correlate findings. If I test a bunch of different maps at my expense I don't think Sharif will mind as it wouldn't be his work I'd be disclosing. Many tuners spend hours optimizing maps, so unless I go through that trouble myself, I don't think it would be right posting it. Pro tuners do have a right to protect their livelihood and mitigate risks that might come back to bite them, so I don't find it odd or funny at all that they don't post up. If this was my livelihood, I wouldn't.

EDIT: rocks, in your post above, did you mean you added 2 degrees or left it at 2 degrees at 4400+ rpms (that's too low for sure but just clarifying).

 

New update. I had added 2 degrees in the map from 4400 rpms up. I now have the cams way advanced on the intake and retarded the exhaust cams more. One thing you have to do is divide by 2 from your logs with the cam angles. So 30 degree advance in a log is really 15 degrees of actuall advance. If you guys want to learn more check out the maxima org they really do a alot with the vq over there and are not scared to share information.

Intake cam map


Exhaust cam map


The car now pulls really smooth up too 7500rpms. The power does fall off after 7500 but it will still pull up too 8000 rpms. Now I just need to get it on a dyno but not sure when that will be due to being broke haha. Tuning the VQ is not a black art is just like every other motor except it has varible cams. Today while tuning my fuel some more I drove and my friend with a subaru and a utec tuned my fuel map. Osiris is so easy to tune with, if you cant tune with it you would have to be retarded or have down syndrome... Now if you had a Vipec ems you could just go to a load based dyno and tune your car in about an hour. Besides if you don't learn how to tune you will never get the full benefit of street tuning.

I had been in contact with uprev, they have not yet done a revup with aftermarket cams. Im sure not a lot of people have, thus the reason for the posting. If I was a tuner I would post and help people, would get you more customers in the end..

 

Osiris may be easy but it doesn't use traditional axes for load (MAP, MAF, TPS). Once you're used to it, I'm sure it's a breeze, but it's not as intuitive right off. I'm not knocking it. The way the UpRev folks got real time tuning to work is brilliant but it clearly is a product of reverse engineering. Anyway, I don't have Down's syndrome but it took me a while to "get it". Maybe I'd been spoiled already...

Thanks for posting the maps. When I dyno here locally, I'll post up with a stock ECU intake timing map vs. your map and take it to 7k rpms...

EDIT: The more I think about this, the more I believe that what works for you vs me will not be interchangeable. I've got relatively small turbos causing backpressure and reversion issues to deal with at high rpms. You don't. I believe I need to retard the intake cam to reduce overlap and minimize reversion. Doesn't hurt to try a few different profiles though. I predict your recent improvements will be detrimental to my power band.

 

Ok that map was screwed up. Looking at a map I got from uprev I had adjusted far to much of it. So im gonna try again haha. Wish i had my own dyno.

 

I made a new map and went to the track last night. First run was around a 15.2 at 89-90 mph. I messed with the ignition timing and the rev limiter was being screwy. The ecu seemed to impose its own limiter after the 4th or so reflash. So shifting was done at 7300 or so instead of 7500 in first and 2nd.

2003 350z with exhaust 15.0 at 92mph
2008 HR Nismo 14.89 at 98mph
2006 revup my car 14.6 at 94.5 mph.

I picked up 4 mph with ingnition timing, maybe put in at the most 6 degrees. I think there may be more left in it but at this altitude its doubt full. 5000 ft above sea level doesn't help anything. I also get wheel hop shifting into 2nd gear. The 14.6 was done two times in a row at the same mph so it wasn't a fluke. Both times I launched the car at 5000rpms slipping the clutch. I think my clutch hates me now. Before just tuning with fuel only the best time I ever managed up here was a 14.9-15.0. I know there is more power left in it, but I will have to wait until I have the cash to dyno it. With more tuning, I think it would be faster than the HR we had at the track. Not bad for a low compression motor haha.

I would also like to say by the time I do turbo my car I will be really good at tuning with the Osiris software. My speculation and I am being honest is that the best time this car will ever see at this altitude would be about a 14.2, so knock a second off of that for sea level. With a higher compression revup, and the bigger jwt cams I would suspect to see 12s at sea level. Probably 12.5s running pump gas at around 11.5 compression.

 

The Rev Limits are controlled in two places with Osiris.

Rev Limits are set for each individual map, as you probably know, but there is another "overall" rev limit "limit" that controls everything. Click "Static" under "Limits." You'll see an option called "Throttle Cut Rev Limit." That is the overall or master rev limit. None of the rev limits in any map can exceed the limit in the "Throttle Cut Rev Limit."

Set the "Throttle Cut Rev Limit" equal or higher than the rev limit you expect to use in any map.

 

I did set it higher, actually at 9500. I remember uprev tellling me along time ago some times revup motors are a pain for the rev limiter. I will have to email them again.

 

I'd be interested to see what they say. I have a RevUp and haven't had any issues setting the rev limit once I understood the relationship between the two limiter settings.

I originally had my limit at 9800 rpm so it could be completely controlled with a Haltec (up to 9800). When I switched back to an Osiris tune, I set the overall limit to 8500 and the map limit to 8300. I haven't had any problems like you mention.


-jb

 

It works fine now. The car was a quart low on oil, the cam phasers work off of oil pressure. lol.

 

I also found a burned coil pack. Changed the coils 3 months ago. Good thing I kept all the good ones heh.

 

what caused them to burn? External or internal?... wiring/connector?

 

+1. Can you change the dwell time with Osiris? Too long and it is my understanding that you risk burning out coil packs...

 

The side of the coil pack was pushed out, the side where the connector is. I am not sure exactly how the timing works with osiris. It is different than other timing methods. It uses something like maximum pressure ( read the guide for tuning on the thier website to understand it more). I had probably increased the timing by about 4-6 degrees total in parts of the map. It is insane how hard it pulls with the cams adjusted. From the but dyno the power band comes on at around 5000 rpms - 7500 rpms. On the track I get wheel hop shifting into second gear. Floor it from a roll in 1st about 4500 rpms and the car tries to get sideways.