I did 4 runs. The first one I did using the stock map. I then did two with the 93 octane map and one with the 91 octane map. I've done all my dynos since I've had this car at the same place. It is a Dynojet. I only use 93 octane gas almost always from the same Sunoco. The only thing that is different on these runs comapared to past runs is that I am now using Castrol GTX 5w30 instead of Mobil 1 5w30 and I now have a set of 19" G35 rims/tires compared to the stock 18's.

Unfortunately I forgot to hit the "start logging" button when I ran the stock map so I don't have a Cipher log of it. When I ran the rest of the runs I remembered to hit start logging. The car seemed to run just like it did without Osiris. The dyno chart looked very similar to the charts I ran last year. As I expected.

The first 93 octane map looked good up to about 6000 rpms. Then it sort of died. Instead of gaining horsepower up to the normal peak of @6250 rpms it leveled out after 6000rpms. One of the guys in the dyno room said he heard it ping.

The next 93 octane run it did the same thing but the peak power was slightly higher. This time I heard it ping at 6000 rpms and I felt it. I don't know if Cipher would show if timing was pulled by the knock sensor but the logs don't show timing being pulled.

The last run I did using the 91 octane map. That made the most power and no one heard any pinging. I hit 253 and change. What is odd is the 91 octane map pulls about 6 degrees of timing compared to the 93 octane map and it still made slightly more power. Something is definately wrong. Where it looks like peak power should still be rising it levels out.

Now what is strange is the AFR. According to Cipher bank 1 was running much richer than bank 2. Over a full point sometimes! To verify this we moved the dyno's o2 sniffer from the driver's side to the passenger side. Sure enough it showed the same thing. The drivers side (I assume that is bank 1) was running extremely rich. It goes into the high 11's a few times. The passenger side (I assume bank 2) stayed in the high 12's to low 13's.

What could cause the banks AFR to differ so much? Everything else in Cipher stayed the same between banks.

My first thought is a bad o2 sensor. Usually when a o2 sensor is bad you get a CEL and the car doesn't run right. My car seems to be running perfectly. I never would have known about this problem if I didn't have Cipher.

 

where did u dyno?

 

Was this a mail order flash??Sounds like one side of the car is getting more fuel than the other.O2 sensors would not matter in WOT conditions..Something is wrong for sure,I would call up Upp-Rev asap.

 

I dynoed at a place called NE Dyno in Douglas, MA.

It wasn't a mail in flash but it was the one that came with Osiris. I am going to email Uprev tomorrow to see if they have any idea what might be going on. According to Cipher the fuel injector pulse was identical for both banks. I hope there is an easy answer to this.

 

I had a similar issue when I first reflashed with Osiris. The timing maps they sent me were aggressive, and I had already bumped my timing by 2 degrees with Cipher, so that further advances the timing. I had knock above 6k, even after taking off the 2 degree bump.
Your timing will probably have to be adjusted depending on your location and temp. The guys at UpRev can do that, and they can fix your AFR issue.

 

Driver's side = bank(2)
Passenger side = bank(1)

 

Thanks. Thats good to know.

I don't know what the inside of the Borla muffler looks like. Maybe it crosses over in the muffler. In other words the passenger side tail pipe is actually the drivers side bank.

 

Someone correct me here if I'm wrong, but I recall reading that the stock ECU does not pull timing for knock above a certain rpm.

EDIT: Also there are threads (search for posts by dovla and rocks) that indicate that bank 2 runs leaner by some margin for some reason.

 

If the stock ecu doesn't pull timing then something else is going on. Look at the charts. It is easy to see that something is going on at @5700 rpms on the 93 octane map. It sure looks to me like timing is being pulled.

Here are the charts. I saved them as jpg's.

This is the stock map:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...n/stockmap.jpg

This is the 1st 93 octane map run:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...anemaprun1.jpg

Both of the above runs had the dyno o2 sniffer in the drivers side tail pipe. The following two had the sniffer in the passenger side tail pipe.

This is the 2nd 93 octane map run:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...nemaprrun2.jpg

This is the 91 octane map run:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...1octanemap.jpg

 

Did you log your timing with Cipher? That would be the best way to tell -- log your AFR and timing with Cipher and you should be able to pinpoint what's going on.

 

I did. I emailed the logs to Uprev.

According to the logs timing wasn't pulled. I couldn't see anything wrong in Cipher. The dyno showed otherwise. What I don't know is if the ecu pulls timing because of knock will cipher show that?

 

Yes, Cipher will show pulled timing, but it doesn't pull it as quickly as UTEC. When UTEC senses knock it pulls timing immediately, then adds it back as soon as knock is gone. I believe the factory ECU has an alternate timing map that it uses when it senses knock. From the logs I've done, it looks like the ECU switches to the other timing map when it senses knock, but it's hard to tell when exactly that happens. For example, I have logs of two pulls to redline, and the second one shows a different ECU timing curve with timing pulled a few degrees because there was knock in the first run.

So yes, if you do multiple runs and graph the timing, you will see if the ECU is detecting knock. But from my personal experience, I've heard knock over 6k RPM during a run, and haven't felt the ECU pull timing. Jared or Chung can probably give you more info on how the ECU detects knock/pulls timing. Post that info here when you get it!!!

 

It could be something as simple as intake temperature. A few degrees C can have several HP difference.

In other words, maybe it's heat soak

 

Maps for 91 and 93 octane – while on dyno for 93 octane map did you have 93 or 91 octane fuel? How about 91 octane, did you empty out the tank and then refill before dyno or you just switched Osiris map?

Timing – as others already mentioned Cipher can change +- 2 deg timing. Nice thing about Osiris is that once you email them your logs they can tweak your timing to better suit your car.
Did you log cams timing also? Did your cams timing B1 vs B2 separate like AFR did?

B2 (driver side) leaner than B1 (passenger side) – please verify your log – if on your car B1 is leaner than B2 then this is nothing new on DE engine. My understanding is that this is not a software issue because both banks share the same code and tables. In my case O2 sensors swap didn’t help and neither did MD’s spacer nor V2 plenum. Because of B2 I like to keep A/F ratio little richer. I am afraid that there is no easy solution to B1 vs B2 discrepancies because someone would have already posted. Hopefully Nissan corrected this on new HR engine.

Don’t let this scare you, most of DE engines are like this, and before Cipher was available only few (FI) drivers suspected it. What I don’t understand is why some shops are still ignorant and without Cipher?

Beeker, please post (or PM me) your 93octaneMapRun1 Cipher log (csv file). Thanks

 

correct me if i am wrong, but if you run 93 gas on a 91 octane map, won't the ecu notice how nicely it is runnin and try to advance timing????

 

According to Cipher it wasn't heat soak. Intake temps were in the low to mid 20's for all the runs.

I would post the cipher logs put I don't know how to. They are very large excel spread sheets. About 500 rows. I don't use excel a lot. I am sure there is a way to make a graph out of individual columns but I don't know how.

 

No, the ECU will run timing according to the timing map (see attached). The Base Fuel Schedule is a function of temperature and other variables (unknown to me).