apex locator

iTrader: (5)

hopefully you can test the xede on a 350z with cams. there are a few z's in socal w/ the nismo cams just dying for a proper tune, myself included

ZedZed

Now this is where it all starts getting good

OC_350Z

I can't wait for an update.

frenzee

iTrader: (1)

Would it be possible to move the ECU from the pre-production car into a stock Z for testing?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

If the factory KS system was accurate and sophistcatred then their wouldnt be an issue with boosted 350z blowing? The factory VQ35DE ECU KS control obviously was not designed for boost. Proper and extensive tuning of the ignition MAP is the best way to go, XEDE sounds promising. But the Z ECU surely pulls several degrees of timing across all cylinders when knock is detected and obviously it cant pull enough to save a boosted 350z. Is the Z KS system even active at WOT? On VQ30DE Maxima's the KS signal is ignored by the ECU at WOT. I understand that the point of piggy back engine managment is to fine tune the timing MAP so no det. ever happens, but how close can you safely get to the edge of best tune vs det. by piggy backing and using the factory KS control. I can not beleive that the the factory KS control is more accurate and sophisticated the latest version of the J&S Ultra Safeguard for the VQ, this can simply not be true. I'm not trying to bash you product as it has its place, I just doubt the abality of the VQ35DE's ECU that you are piggy backing to be as good as the J&S Ultra Safeguard at controlling det on boosted applications.

jesseenglish

I wanted to say almost the exact same thing, but stayed away because it's not my thread and I'm currently doing the J&S group buy, didn't wanna look biased. The Xede sounds like a great product, and I would get it if it proved as good as they say it is.

However, I would continue to use the J&S ultrasafeguard as opposed to a piggyback ECU which relies on the factory knock control system. I also have difficulty believing that the stock knock control is more advanced than the latest J&S unit. The factory system simply was not designed to operate in a boosted application.

Shiv@Vishnu

The 300ZX twin turbo had pressure transducers in each cylinder as a part of their knock control system so, yes, I'd argue that the factory knock control system is a bit more sophisticated and accurate than an aftermarket knock control unit. A good knock control system isn't designed to safe a poorly tuned engine from blowing up. Typically, they don't have the authority range (max degrees of retard) to keep a high compression motor, running 6psi of boost, running lean while still in closed loop fuel control from detonating itself to death. Only takes a few good pops to for such an engine to fail.

The 350Z knock control system is active at full throttle. We have tested it to the point of knowing that there is no condition under load in which the knock control system is inhibited. From as early as 2000rpm to fuel cut, it is always active and always ready to pull a few degrees of timing if knock were to occur.

I've worked with John at J&S since the late 90s in testing Safeguard applications for RX7s, Miatas, Subarus, etc,. It is a fine product and certainly a good solution to a problem that, in a properly tune car, shouldn't exist. But one of the sad facts in the aftermarket is that most tuner cars aren't properly tuned. In a properly tuned car, knock retard shouldn't occur, period. To me, the best solution is to actually tune a car (fuel, spark and, if applicable, boost tables), not look for fixes to keep a poorly tuned car from experiencing catastrophic engine failure. Not only is the band-aid approach theoretically undesireable, it's also less-than-ideal for power, performance and longevity.

My 2c,
Shiv

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

The VQ35DE in in the 350Z has a single knock sensor, nothing like a VG30DETT. Same sensor as a VQ30DE Maxima.

Thanks for clearing up about the 350Z's factory ECU's KS WOT function. I have a few questions...
So how much timing does it pull at onset of det?
Is it relative to severity of knock or just a threshold?
What is the max degrees it will pull?
It pulls timing across all cylinders not just the cylinder that is det'ing?
XEDE uses "crank angle sensor" to modify timing, is this what Nissan calls REF or POS?
Is this similar to the Unichip?

What are your tuning parameters for real world ignition tuning? Somthing like, set the timing so it dosent det on a dyno, then take it out and heat soak it and run it hard a few times and see if it det's? If it does det pull the timing back till it dosent det during heat soak'd runs? How many degrees have you found you need to pull from the dyno tune to the street tune?

I will absolutely agree with you that a properly tuned car should not det. and that is what XEDE or other similar tuning pruducts should be able to provide.

But let me propose a scenario. Two identically equiped boosted high horse power stock VQ35DE 350Z's, both have the XEDE properly tuned using 94 oct gas. The the only diffecence is that one has a J&S Ultra Safeguard. Now with out any other changes we fill them both up with 87 oct gas and make a 1/4 mile pass. Which Z is gonna survive? An extreme scenario, but my money is on the 350Z equiped with the J&S.


Thanks for sharing any info you can,
Matt

VR3

Any new info ?

Ultimateone

or a estimated time on availability

Shiv@Vishnu

It's been ready for a while. It's been running in SCC magazine's project 350Z for a couple of months now. We currently have 2 XEDEs in stock. If anyone wants us to install and test them on their 350Z, shoot us an email at sales@vishnutuning.com and we can arrange a dyno testing session. We will give preference locals (so we can keep track of them easily) and those will more mods and 6sp manual transmissions While the XEDE will still work on automatics, manual cars will be easier to test in a controlled environment since there is no ATF to heat up, no sudden downshifts, etc,.

Cheers,
Shiv

daking350

So what about us EAST coast guys???

EnthusiastZ

DITTO!

Shocka

Do you have any custom maps made up yet?
I would be interested in one of these if there is a map that would match up with mods I have/will have.

Ultimateone

Shiv whats the price and yes what about the east coast guys?

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

emailed you Shiv

KJY9

I believe I spoke with Robert at your place last week IIRC and he said 4-6 weeks until full production. Are you still on that schedule and #2 are you going to have a couple of different stage chips for different mods. I'll bet there are quite a few people out here (myself included) with over aspirated rides running entirely too lean.
Thanks

Jun

iTrader: (45)

Shiv@Vishnu

The number and quality of preset maps we can generate for the 350Z is directly proportional to the number of modified 350Zs that come in for custom dyno tuning. We have a moderately modified 350Z coming in next week (exhaust, cams, etc,.) which we will be tuning with the XEDE. I'll post up results then and then we can get the ball rolling.

Cheers
shiv