Stillen HR Header Defect
08-19-2008, 10:56 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Crom
Alot of the times esp. in FI situations the knuckle 's edge is grinded down to clear...not sure if that was a option,
08-19-2008, 11:00 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by sv06mnp
Hey A.H can you tell me the problem with these headers is for all their production or the problem was only for your headers,because i have allready bought the headers and wanted to install them these days but don't really know if that is a good ideea anymore?Thank's in advance.
I will take a picture of the messed up driver side header in a certain position. You then take a pic of your driver side header in that same postion. IF the piping is identical and in the same location then you need that new header from stillen but if its differnect than your good. Or before we do this call and talk to stillen and maybe based on your purcahse date they can be sure if you got a revised one or not. This error was caught about 2 weeks after production i just ran into it now cause i bought it 4 months ago and jsut installed it. LMK what your going to do and i hope this helped.
-Arsh
08-19-2008, 11:05 PM
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I got a question for everyone. When the header was hitting the knuckle i had to drive it for 5 min to swap wheels somewhere and i think teh rubbing of the knuckle on teh header messed up my alignment? Is this possible that the header hitting the stering rack woudl mess up my alignment or is the issue worse than a simple alignment? Kinda scared cause i have to hold the stering wheel about 1/4 turn to the right to go straight........Please help. All opionions appreciated
-Arsh
-Arsh
08-20-2008, 03:56 AM
#24
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Well you have to disconect the knuckle to install the header and if it is one tooth off when reconnected then your strering will be off. OR if the knuckle stricking the header made the rack skip a tooth then it would be off as well. Is is off a lot or just a little?
08-20-2008, 09:58 AM
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It's off just a little. Lets say the wheel at 12 o'clock is straight, now i have to go between 1 and 2 o'clock to have teh car go straight. So basically this is something a wheel alignment won't fix and i need to have the shop that installed my headers fix?
08-20-2008, 10:22 AM
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I would have them take a look at the knuckle postion but it is easy to adjust it out with an alignment.. Not a big deal. If it was way out then your rack adjustment would not make up the difference.
08-20-2008, 10:44 AM
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GENERAL INFORMATION AND RECOMMENDATIONS
- A four-wheel thrust alignment should be performed.
– This type of alignment is recommended for any NISSAN/INFINITI vehicle.
– The four-wheel “thrust” process helps ensure that the vehicle is properly aligned and the steering wheel is
centered.
– The alignment rack itself should be capable of accepting any NISSAN/INFINITI vehicle.
– The rack should be checked to ensure that it is level.
- After removing/installing or replacing steering components, check wheel alignment. Refer to FSU-6,
"Wheel Alignment Inspection" .
- When steering wheel is set in the straight ahead direction, confirm
slit of lower joint fits with the projection on rear cover cap,
furthermore marking position on steering gear assembly nearly
fits with the projection on rear cover cap.
.
- A four-wheel thrust alignment should be performed.
– This type of alignment is recommended for any NISSAN/INFINITI vehicle.
– The four-wheel “thrust” process helps ensure that the vehicle is properly aligned and the steering wheel is
centered.
– The alignment rack itself should be capable of accepting any NISSAN/INFINITI vehicle.
– The rack should be checked to ensure that it is level.
- After removing/installing or replacing steering components, check wheel alignment. Refer to FSU-6,
"Wheel Alignment Inspection" .
- When steering wheel is set in the straight ahead direction, confirm
slit of lower joint fits with the projection on rear cover cap,
furthermore marking position on steering gear assembly nearly
fits with the projection on rear cover cap.
.
Last edited by WalkerT; 08-20-2008 at 11:02 AM.
10-05-2008, 01:17 PM
#29
Dremel FTW. I got these headers in after 17 hours, a bad burn, a broken engine cover (don't ask), and a sore a$$ back.
Before anybody attempts to install these, please keep in mind:
1) The cats are nearly impossible to remove (https://my350z.com/forum/vq35hr/3868...ht=remove+cats) I had to soak the bolts for 4 hours and use a 2' breaker bar. One of the bolts just did not want to move so I ended up using a grinder and drilling through it.
2) Even the revised headers have clearance issues. The steering knuckle's edge, fastener's end and head may rub on right turns. A 30 - 40 degree right turn going 50mph locked up the steering for me.
3) Stock header -> cat bolts are too short. You can find grade 8 bolts at Lowes. Advanced Auto parts do not sell bolts > 44mm.
4) Steering shaft and knuckle are already marked in purple so don't go out buying white out like I did.
5) Recommended tools (not limited to): 3/8" torque wrench, a single 1/2" and 3/8" u-joint, 2' 1/2" extension, 6" 3/8" extension, reversible ratchet wrenches (10, 12, 14mm), 22mm wrench (02 sensor), largest breaker bar you can find, pliers, and a dremel. Im probably forgetting a few things but those are some key tools.
6) I may be mistaken, but the Stillen headers are slightly shorter than the stock ones. I had to stretch the Y pipe to meet the cats, which inadvertently caused the end of the mid pipe to lower a few inches. Now, the mid pipe will hit the chassis's under brace
. I am going to find some exhaust wrap to pad the pipe so it doesn't send a chatter through the body. Unless somebody else can think of a better idea other than raising the muffler.
6) Most importantly, get a friend, family member or a stranger to help. I can't even count the number of times I had to crawl out from under the car.
I do not have pictures of the bolt's head simply because I was tired.
Special thanks to Wes and A.H. for helping me.
Before anybody attempts to install these, please keep in mind:
1) The cats are nearly impossible to remove (https://my350z.com/forum/vq35hr/3868...ht=remove+cats) I had to soak the bolts for 4 hours and use a 2' breaker bar. One of the bolts just did not want to move so I ended up using a grinder and drilling through it.
2) Even the revised headers have clearance issues. The steering knuckle's edge, fastener's end and head may rub on right turns. A 30 - 40 degree right turn going 50mph locked up the steering for me.
3) Stock header -> cat bolts are too short. You can find grade 8 bolts at Lowes. Advanced Auto parts do not sell bolts > 44mm.
4) Steering shaft and knuckle are already marked in purple so don't go out buying white out like I did.
5) Recommended tools (not limited to): 3/8" torque wrench, a single 1/2" and 3/8" u-joint, 2' 1/2" extension, 6" 3/8" extension, reversible ratchet wrenches (10, 12, 14mm), 22mm wrench (02 sensor), largest breaker bar you can find, pliers, and a dremel. Im probably forgetting a few things but those are some key tools.
6) I may be mistaken, but the Stillen headers are slightly shorter than the stock ones. I had to stretch the Y pipe to meet the cats, which inadvertently caused the end of the mid pipe to lower a few inches. Now, the mid pipe will hit the chassis's under brace
. I am going to find some exhaust wrap to pad the pipe so it doesn't send a chatter through the body. Unless somebody else can think of a better idea other than raising the muffler. 6) Most importantly, get a friend, family member or a stranger to help. I can't even count the number of times I had to crawl out from under the car.
I do not have pictures of the bolt's head simply because I was tired.
Special thanks to Wes and A.H. for helping me.
10-05-2008, 03:31 PM
#30
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Np on the help, it's my pleasure. What I don't understand is why you had to "strech" your y-pipe. I didn't have to do this at all but you are right when you say the revised headers still ahve issues. I think i actaulyl was goign 50 on a turn with around the same degree turn and my streing also caught the stering knuckle And this only ahppens on right hand turns. ANyway we have to notify stillen about this issue. Kyle Millen is workoing wiht me to revise the headers but he says taht my car is a freak and diffenret since he hasn't heard anyone else complain about the header hitting the knuckle on the revised version. I am going to call him toamrrow and he is going to give me his solution. He told me that thsi revised version didnt' hit and when i told him it did he todl me if they hit then there would be a mark on teh headr from where the knuckle is hitting and thsi is the picture I sent to him.
-Arsh
And this only ahppens on right hand turns. ANyway we have to notify stillen about this issue. Kyle Millen is workoing wiht me to revise the headers but he says taht my car is a freak and diffenret since he hasn't heard anyone else complain about the header hitting the knuckle on the revised version. I am going to call him toamrrow and he is going to give me his solution. He told me that thsi revised version didnt' hit and when i told him it did he todl me if they hit then there would be a mark on teh headr from where the knuckle is hitting and thsi is the picture I sent to him.-Arsh
10-05-2008, 04:12 PM
#32
He hasn't heard anybody else complain because some people are just accepting it for what it is. Or Justin @ Stillen is just refusing to help people, but thats another story.
If Kyle needs more "proof", let me know and I can try and take more pictures. The shaved knuckle really helps but hasn't given me piece of mind yet. The same turn at 50mph didn't lock up the steering with the shaved knuckle. Unfortunately, I can't test the car at higher speeds because anything over 50 mph on street roads is just stupid and all the tracks around here won't allow the ZR on without a roll cage.
The things we do for hp...
If Kyle needs more "proof", let me know and I can try and take more pictures. The shaved knuckle really helps but hasn't given me piece of mind yet. The same turn at 50mph didn't lock up the steering with the shaved knuckle. Unfortunately, I can't test the car at higher speeds because anything over 50 mph on street roads is just stupid and all the tracks around here won't allow the ZR on without a roll cage.
The things we do for hp...
10-05-2008, 04:20 PM
#33
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Np on the help, it's my pleasure. What I don't understand is why you had to "strech" your y-pipe. I didn't have to do this at all but you are right when you say the revised headers still ahve issues. I think i actaulyl was goign 50 on a turn with around the same degree turn and my streing also caught the stering knuckle And this only ahppens on right hand turns. ANyway we have to notify stillen about this issue. Kyle Millen is workoing wiht me to revise the headers but he says taht my car is a freak and diffenret since he hasn't heard anyone else complain about the header hitting the knuckle on the revised version. I am going to call him toamrrow and he is going to give me his solution. He told me that thsi revised version didnt' hit and when i told him it did he todl me if they hit then there would be a mark on teh headr from where the knuckle is hitting and thsi is the picture I sent to him.
-Arsh
And this only ahppens on right hand turns. ANyway we have to notify stillen about this issue. Kyle Millen is workoing wiht me to revise the headers but he says taht my car is a freak and diffenret since he hasn't heard anyone else complain about the header hitting the knuckle on the revised version. I am going to call him toamrrow and he is going to give me his solution. He told me that thsi revised version didnt' hit and when i told him it did he todl me if they hit then there would be a mark on teh headr from where the knuckle is hitting and thsi is the picture I sent to him.-Arsh
I emailed the sales lady from Stillen on Friday night. I even suggest them to redesign the steering coupler (easier than redesigning the header). What happen here right now is that the "knuckle" or the thicker part of the coupler , where the top screw is sitting, is hitting the header. If they could make the coupler in such a way so that the "movement" of the "knuckle" of the coupler, whether turn left or right, is always on the left side of the steering shaft; this should avoid the "hit"
As for now, the "knuckle" of the coupler, when you turn right, it swings to the right. And because there is not enough clearance, the "knuckle" touches the header. So, if the "knuckle" is designed in such a way, when turning right, it won't swing past the "12 o'clock" line. It should be fine.
In other words, if the "swing" or the movement of the "knuckle" is kept between the "Lower" half of 4 and 11 O'clock line, it should be fine. It seems to me right now the "swing" of the "knuckle" is on the "upper" half of 9 and 3 O'clock line. What do you guys think?
Ya, I did have to extend my y pipe, but this is not an issue for me at all. Right now, my car is sitting on the ramp, and I am so fxxx lazy to switch back the oem header because it took me about half an hour to put one screw back on, because of the akward position of these screws.
10-05-2008, 04:25 PM
#34
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Yes, it still hit! I finished installed mine on Friday. I didn't even have to go for a test drive and I didn't feel like it because of this issue. Everytime I turn the steering right, past a certern angle, I can feel a light "hit" on the steering shaft. The touch is light, and I am sure when the car is actually turning right, the engine will shift to the left, the hit is going to be serious!
I emailed the sales lady from Stillen on Friday night. I even suggest them to redesign the steering coupler (easier than redesigning the header). What happen here right now is that the "knuckle" or the thicker part of the coupler , where the top screw is sitting, is hitting the header. If they could make the coupler in such a way so that the "movement" of the "knuckle" of the coupler, whether turn left or right, is always on the left side of the steering shaft; this should avoid the "hit"
As for now, the "knuckle" of the coupler, when you turn right, it swings to the right. And because there is not enough clearance, the "knuckle" touches the header. So, if the "knuckle" is designed in such a way, when turning right, it won't swing past the "12 o'clock" line. It should be fine.
In other words, if the "swing" or the movement of the "knuckle" is kept between the "Lower" half of 4 and 11 O'clock line, it should be fine. It seems to me right now the "swing" of the "knuckle" is on the "upper" half of 9 and 3 O'clock line. What do you guys think?
Ya, I did have to extend my y pipe, but this is not an issue for me at all. Right now, my car is sitting on the ramp, and I am so fxxx lazy to switch back the oem header because it took me about half an hour to put one screw back on, because of the akward position of these screws.
I emailed the sales lady from Stillen on Friday night. I even suggest them to redesign the steering coupler (easier than redesigning the header). What happen here right now is that the "knuckle" or the thicker part of the coupler , where the top screw is sitting, is hitting the header. If they could make the coupler in such a way so that the "movement" of the "knuckle" of the coupler, whether turn left or right, is always on the left side of the steering shaft; this should avoid the "hit"
As for now, the "knuckle" of the coupler, when you turn right, it swings to the right. And because there is not enough clearance, the "knuckle" touches the header. So, if the "knuckle" is designed in such a way, when turning right, it won't swing past the "12 o'clock" line. It should be fine.
In other words, if the "swing" or the movement of the "knuckle" is kept between the "Lower" half of 4 and 11 O'clock line, it should be fine. It seems to me right now the "swing" of the "knuckle" is on the "upper" half of 9 and 3 O'clock line. What do you guys think?
Ya, I did have to extend my y pipe, but this is not an issue for me at all. Right now, my car is sitting on the ramp, and I am so fxxx lazy to switch back the oem header because it took me about half an hour to put one screw back on, because of the akward position of these screws.
Lets clarify something.
Original Stillen Header Design: Stering "knuckle" will hit the header while car is stopped and not in motion
Revised Stillen Header Design: Stering "knuckle" will hit the header while car is in motion on hard RIGHT hand tuns
And you shouldn't have to shave down the knuckle and pray for clearance. Stillen prides themselves on top quality work and they cahrge a top quality price and that is why we purcahse their products. What they need to do is come out with a recall and redesign the header again. They coudl ahve solved this problem originally with jsut some R & D
-Arsh
10-05-2008, 04:43 PM
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Lets clarify something.
Original Stillen Header Design: Stering "knuckle" will hit the header while car is stopped and not in motion
Revised Stillen Header Design: Stering "knuckle" will hit the header while car is in motion on hard RIGHT hand tuns
And you shouldn't have to shave down the knuckle and pray for clearance. Stillen prides themselves on top quality work and they cahrge a top quality price and that is why we purcahse their products. What they need to do is come out with a recall and redesign the header again. They coudl ahve solved this problem originally with jsut some R & D
-Arsh
Original Stillen Header Design: Stering "knuckle" will hit the header while car is stopped and not in motion
Revised Stillen Header Design: Stering "knuckle" will hit the header while car is in motion on hard RIGHT hand tuns
And you shouldn't have to shave down the knuckle and pray for clearance. Stillen prides themselves on top quality work and they cahrge a top quality price and that is why we purcahse their products. What they need to do is come out with a recall and redesign the header again. They coudl ahve solved this problem originally with jsut some R & D
-Arsh
Agreed totally!!! By the ways, thanks for all the info on all the bolt ons that you had provided up to now, Arsh. I really appreciate your time and effort.
****, I really don't feel like putting my old header back on. When I think of all the nuts and bolt that I have to go through, sighhh..... That is why I suggest them to make a new coupler to go with their header. All they have to do is copy the original coupler and make sure the threads inside the coupler is exactly the opposite of the original. They don't even have to make the coupler better than the oem.....
10-05-2008, 04:46 PM
#36
And you shouldn't have to shave down the knuckle and pray for clearance. Stillen prides themselves on top quality work and they cahrge a top quality price and that is why we purcahse their products. What they need to do is come out with a recall and redesign the header again. They coudl ahve solved this problem originally with jsut some R & D
As for now, the "knuckle" of the coupler, when you turn right, it swings to the right. And because there is not enough clearance, the "knuckle" touches the header. So, if the "knuckle" is designed in such a way, when turning right, it won't swing past the "12 o'clock" line. It should be fine.
In other words, if the "swing" or the movement of the "knuckle" is kept between the "Lower" half of 4 and 11 O'clock line, it should be fine. It seems to me right now the "swing" of the "knuckle" is on the "upper" half of 9 and 3 O'clock line. What do you guys think?
In other words, if the "swing" or the movement of the "knuckle" is kept between the "Lower" half of 4 and 11 O'clock line, it should be fine. It seems to me right now the "swing" of the "knuckle" is on the "upper" half of 9 and 3 O'clock line. What do you guys think?
10-05-2008, 04:48 PM
#37
Agreed totally!!! By the ways, thanks for all the info on all the bolt ons that you had provided up to now, Arsh. I really appreciate your time and effort.
****, I really don't feel like putting my old header back on. When I think of all the nuts and bolt that I have to go through, sighhh..... That is why I suggest them to make a new coupler to go with their header. All they have to do is copy the original coupler and make sure the threads inside the coupler is exactly the opposite of the original. They don't even have to make the coupler better than the oem.....
****, I really don't feel like putting my old header back on. When I think of all the nuts and bolt that I have to go through, sighhh..... That is why I suggest them to make a new coupler to go with their header. All they have to do is copy the original coupler and make sure the threads inside the coupler is exactly the opposite of the original. They don't even have to make the coupler better than the oem.....
10-05-2008, 05:07 PM
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I completely agree with you Arsh, I shouldn't have shaved it down, but I took two days off of work to do this. I was determined to get it done at whatever cost. In my mind, even if Stillen recalled the headers, I would have to wait x time for them to refab and ship. Additionally, I would have to take another 2 days off of work to re-install the new headers.
Good observation, but redesigning or repositioning the knuckle would be a harder task. Even if you repositioned the knuckle, I still wouldn't feel comfortable because there might be a freak chance you will want to make a high speed long U turn.
Good observation, but redesigning or repositioning the knuckle would be a harder task. Even if you repositioned the knuckle, I still wouldn't feel comfortable because there might be a freak chance you will want to make a high speed long U turn.
Anyway, I hope Stillen would come up with a solution real soon. I can't wait to drive my car....ooohhhh...
Everytime I sit in my Z, I just feel exciting, and I LOVE my Z. It is not a very fast car, but the look is awesome, the size is perfect.....mmmm.....maybe a little "overweight" 
10-05-2008, 05:50 PM
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[QUOTE=vtchang;6386403]I I was determined to get it done at whatever cost. In my mind, even if Stillen recalled the headers, I would have to wait x time for them to refab and ship. Additionally, I would have to take another 2 days off of work to re-install the new headers.
I know how you feels, vtchang, too bad I am way too far from Stillen, otherwise maybe we can go to their headquarters together....Now, I can only email and phone, and I am not good at arguing with people. I hope the sales lady that I emailed to understand what I was talking. I will let you know what she said tomorrow(hopefully she would reply my email tomorrow).
I know how you feels, vtchang, too bad I am way too far from Stillen, otherwise maybe we can go to their headquarters together....Now, I can only email and phone, and I am not good at arguing with people. I hope the sales lady that I emailed to understand what I was talking. I will let you know what she said tomorrow(hopefully she would reply my email tomorrow).