Dynos - Injen CAIs and Stillen HFCs - Not Safe For HR Owners :-)
12-12-2008, 08:29 AM
#83
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Well, I took my car back to z-car garage and Rob, Forbes, and Fred messed with it for like 1-2 hours. One in the car on the lift reving the engine and the other 2 looking at and listening to the exhaust with a stethoscope!
2 of the 3 areas I thought were exhaust leaks do seal themselves up when the exhaust gets hot. There is one problem area that does not and the sli-fitting and band-clamps are not cutting it.
I was also able to see a more recently produced Bassani just installed on someone's Z. It looks like Bassani has changed their design slightly in a few areas. The bends in the exhaust are more pronounced around the sway bar area, making the piping a bit longer and probably eliminating any leakage issues. Their tips have changed slightly and have small cone-resonators in them. There are likely other changes not visible to the eye. I am thinking that is why I have rasp while others don't, I bought my Bassani in March of 2008. Not sure when they made the changes or when Infinite bought his, but he likely has the revised model. Mine is definitely a generation-1 model. I was probably 2nd in line for one when they came out.
Bassani is still THE best sounding exhaust for our cars so far (IMO).
With the adjustments that z-car made, the rasp is still there, but now I can at least dip into the throttle more before I hear it - which is great if there are cops around
Rob@z-car said to give him some time with the car in a couple weeks and he'll "try some things" to eliminate the rasp. I'm down. In the mean time I am in love with the new-found power that I am making with bolt-ons.
As soon as we eliminate the rasp, we'll be looking into engine tuning software.
Then it's on!
300+ WHP here I come...
2 of the 3 areas I thought were exhaust leaks do seal themselves up when the exhaust gets hot. There is one problem area that does not and the sli-fitting and band-clamps are not cutting it.
I was also able to see a more recently produced Bassani just installed on someone's Z. It looks like Bassani has changed their design slightly in a few areas. The bends in the exhaust are more pronounced around the sway bar area, making the piping a bit longer and probably eliminating any leakage issues. Their tips have changed slightly and have small cone-resonators in them. There are likely other changes not visible to the eye. I am thinking that is why I have rasp while others don't, I bought my Bassani in March of 2008. Not sure when they made the changes or when Infinite bought his, but he likely has the revised model. Mine is definitely a generation-1 model. I was probably 2nd in line for one when they came out.
Bassani is still THE best sounding exhaust for our cars so far (IMO).
With the adjustments that z-car made, the rasp is still there, but now I can at least dip into the throttle more before I hear it - which is great if there are cops around
Rob@z-car said to give him some time with the car in a couple weeks and he'll "try some things" to eliminate the rasp. I'm down. In the mean time I am in love with the new-found power that I am making with bolt-ons.
As soon as we eliminate the rasp, we'll be looking into engine tuning software.
Then it's on!
300+ WHP here I come...
Last edited by hiz-n-herz; 12-12-2008 at 08:33 AM.
12-15-2008, 12:08 PM
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EDIT: Added Pics of the intakes
EDIT: Updated 11/30/08 with driving feedback
--------------------------------------------------
OK, I took it out and beat on it despite the rasp. I must say that 1st gear is just insane. It is really difficult to maintain traction at WOT in 1st
and we are talking sticky 275 tires (Eagle F1 GS D3's) warmed up and on dry pavement.
Friggen sweet!
I tried about 4 WOT runs in 1st at various places, but kept getting wheelspin/wheelhop past 5kRPMs
. I was lucky enough to find one road surface that could actually hold traction all the way to redline in 1st. What a blast! Before the HFCs and Intakes, I could detect the power increase level off at about 6kRPMs but I'd continue it in the current gear to 7kRPMs or so just to be in the power band when shifting into the next gear.
First gear felt so good, I went WOT through 2nd as well. Dam!!!! The power seems to build all the way to 7k RPMs and does not noticably let up or taper off at all. Plus, the engine feels very eagar to get there. Oh, and when topping out acceleration in 3rd on the highway, I can feel the rear tires lose a bit of traction over any bumps here and there. Very entertaining!
What a beast! I can't wait to quiet down the exhaust a little and get a dyno tune.
I am going to have to step up to some sticky PS2's in a 285 to hold this power. (IMO, PS2's have better straight-line grip than the Eagle F1 GS-D3) also, gas is down to 1/2 a tank. I think the full-tank was helping with traction before
Thanks Z-car Garage! This setup is HAWT! And thanks to A.H and Infinite for testing this combo out.
-----------------------------------------------
Original post:
Just got back from Z-Car Garage where they installed my Stillen HFC's and Injen CAI's.
Quite frankly I am shocked at the gains, as were the guys at z-car. I have not been able to take it out and beat on it because it started raining
- it happens sometimes in Cali
The HFC's made crazy power and torque, but really detracts from beautiful sound of my Bassani. It's a little raspy right now.
I may take it back down next week and ask them to put it back on the lift to give it a look-over and make sure I don't have an exhaust leak.
Infinite (with the exact same mods as me) has ZERO rasp. How the he11 does that happen on one car, but not the next?
A.H also has no rasp even with resonated test-pipes and exhaust. It's also loud as he11. Going from stock to the Bassani exhaust added about 3-4 dB of sound increase. I think the HFCs added another 10 dB on top of that!!!!! But I really don't mind loudness... if there's no rasp.
Anyway, I am very happy with the numbers. I am making 296.6 rwhp and 260 lb-ft of torque (SAE corrected) with a few bolt-ons and no tune! I actually got 10 HP on the top end from the Intakes, which was a complete surprise. I wish I could tell you how the intakes sound, but I can't hear them over the exhaust with the CAI's!
If I can take care of the rasp, then the next step is a tune. Technosquare is tempting, since A.H and infinite got some FAT gains but Z-car garage is getting their own ECU tuning software so I may go that route - nothing like having a local tuner to go to for support.
The black CAI's look really nice with the redline. The install looks great.
Also, Forbes did a really nice write-up on zcar blog: http://www.zcarblog.com/2008/11/26/p...o-figures.html I'll take more pics of the CAI's when it's daylight.
Here are the dynos - Combined onto one graph to show increases. Note that the scales for HP and torque on the left and right are different so the curves will not intersect at 5250 RPMs:
Curves are: Baseline (With Bassani) --> HFCs --> CAIs
EDIT: Updated 11/30/08 with driving feedback
--------------------------------------------------
OK, I took it out and beat on it despite the rasp. I must say that 1st gear is just insane. It is really difficult to maintain traction at WOT in 1st
and we are talking sticky 275 tires (Eagle F1 GS D3's) warmed up and on dry pavement.Friggen sweet!
I tried about 4 WOT runs in 1st at various places, but kept getting wheelspin/wheelhop past 5kRPMs
. I was lucky enough to find one road surface that could actually hold traction all the way to redline in 1st. What a blast! Before the HFCs and Intakes, I could detect the power increase level off at about 6kRPMs but I'd continue it in the current gear to 7kRPMs or so just to be in the power band when shifting into the next gear.First gear felt so good, I went WOT through 2nd as well. Dam!!!! The power seems to build all the way to 7k RPMs and does not noticably let up or taper off at all. Plus, the engine feels very eagar to get there. Oh, and when topping out acceleration in 3rd on the highway, I can feel the rear tires lose a bit of traction over any bumps here and there. Very entertaining!
What a beast! I can't wait to quiet down the exhaust a little and get a dyno tune.
I am going to have to step up to some sticky PS2's in a 285 to hold this power. (IMO, PS2's have better straight-line grip than the Eagle F1 GS-D3) also, gas is down to 1/2 a tank. I think the full-tank was helping with traction before
Thanks Z-car Garage! This setup is HAWT! And thanks to A.H and Infinite for testing this combo out.
-----------------------------------------------
Original post:
Just got back from Z-Car Garage where they installed my Stillen HFC's and Injen CAI's.
Quite frankly I am shocked at the gains, as were the guys at z-car. I have not been able to take it out and beat on it because it started raining
- it happens sometimes in Cali The HFC's made crazy power and torque, but really detracts from beautiful sound of my Bassani. It's a little raspy right now.
I may take it back down next week and ask them to put it back on the lift to give it a look-over and make sure I don't have an exhaust leak.
Infinite (with the exact same mods as me) has ZERO rasp. How the he11 does that happen on one car, but not the next?
A.H also has no rasp even with resonated test-pipes and exhaust. It's also loud as he11. Going from stock to the Bassani exhaust added about 3-4 dB of sound increase. I think the HFCs added another 10 dB on top of that!!!!! But I really don't mind loudness... if there's no rasp.Anyway, I am very happy with the numbers. I am making 296.6 rwhp and 260 lb-ft of torque (SAE corrected) with a few bolt-ons and no tune! I actually got 10 HP on the top end from the Intakes, which was a complete surprise. I wish I could tell you how the intakes sound, but I can't hear them over the exhaust with the CAI's!
If I can take care of the rasp, then the next step is a tune. Technosquare is tempting, since A.H and infinite got some FAT gains but Z-car garage is getting their own ECU tuning software so I may go that route - nothing like having a local tuner to go to for support.
The black CAI's look really nice with the redline. The install looks great.
Also, Forbes did a really nice write-up on zcar blog: http://www.zcarblog.com/2008/11/26/p...o-figures.html I'll take more pics of the CAI's when it's daylight.
Here are the dynos - Combined onto one graph to show increases. Note that the scales for HP and torque on the left and right are different so the curves will not intersect at 5250 RPMs:
Curves are: Baseline (With Bassani) --> HFCs --> CAIs
12-15-2008, 01:19 PM
#86
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with the gains i've seen and the uproar about how good they are it makes me sad knowing i have short ram. i wonder if there's away to mod our so it'll fit like the injens. i'm really not wanting to spend $400 or so to replace an already aftermarket part. damn.
12-15-2008, 02:28 PM
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Man those stock cats are really a bottle neck it seems like, from looking at your dynos!!!
Still would like to see what kind of gains one can get with just the bassani and Intakes!
Still would like to see what kind of gains one can get with just the bassani and Intakes!
12-15-2008, 06:59 PM
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i know i know... this question is asked all the time. but i have LITERALLY spend the last 4 days reading article after aticle and thread after thread about intakes. i cotinously see that everbody disagrees and a lot of intake compaies make false clames.. and then the topic changes with no deffinitive answer one way or the other. i just got a base 6speed 08 z two months ago. my parents are gonna hook me up with one aftermarket part within reason. i dont know how easy hydrolock is, or if a CAI would be better since there is maybe denser air in San diego. some people have said popchargers and CAI's will all provide 5-8 hp and there is NO other difference. sure CAI look cool but if they both wont really do ANYTHING for performance and are JUST for sound, woudlnt it make sense to spend less money and just get the popcharger? if a CAI look, sound AND give more performance then it worth it i guess. i also dont know how easy heat soak is.
please dont tell me to read another thread. i have read thread for atleast 40 hours on intakes and still dont have a final answer. are intakes only helpful for performance from 5-7 rpm?
any answer would be great cuz this is taking forever. hope you understand
please dont tell me to read another thread. i have read thread for atleast 40 hours on intakes and still dont have a final answer. are intakes only helpful for performance from 5-7 rpm?
any answer would be great cuz this is taking forever. hope you understand
12-15-2008, 07:41 PM
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How loud are these Stillen HFC's?.. Honestly living in Cali aint easy especially where im at. If its not a cop pulling u over its some guy in a Domestic talking about my ricer.. I dont want my car to rasp or sound like a rice rocket at all.. one of the reasons i stayed with the NISMO exhaust.
12-15-2008, 08:13 PM
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How loud are these Stillen HFC's?.. Honestly living in Cali aint easy especially where im at. If its not a cop pulling u over its some guy in a Domestic talking about my ricer.. I dont want my car to rasp or sound like a rice rocket at all.. one of the reasons i stayed with the NISMO exhaust.
12-19-2008, 05:11 PM
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hehe... Rob's been busy with the car at Z-car Garage for a few days trying different configurations in conjunction with Dyno testing. I have pretty much given him free reign to do what he wants. I trust the shop like that (all the guys there). He is trying to get incredible, perfect sound (No rasp, and no unwanted resonances) AND keeping all the power we've made. I may get it back next week. I also agreed to let him take itto a muffler shop to replace all the slip-fit joints with flanges so it should be pretty tight when I get it back. I have other cars I can drive in the mean time so I told him to take as long as he needs.
I'l update this theread or start a new one when I have news. If I start a new thread, I'll update this one with a link to the new one.
Can't wait to see what Rob comes up with...
I'l update this theread or start a new one when I have news. If I start a new thread, I'll update this one with a link to the new one.
Can't wait to see what Rob comes up with...
Last edited by hiz-n-herz; 12-19-2008 at 07:46 PM.
12-19-2008, 09:36 PM
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i know i know... this question is asked all the time. but i have LITERALLY spend the last 4 days reading article after aticle and thread after thread about intakes. i cotinously see that everbody disagrees and a lot of intake compaies make false clames.. and then the topic changes with no deffinitive answer one way or the other. i just got a base 6speed 08 z two months ago. my parents are gonna hook me up with one aftermarket part within reason. i dont know how easy hydrolock is, or if a CAI would be better since there is maybe denser air in San diego. some people have said popchargers and CAI's will all provide 5-8 hp and there is NO other difference. sure CAI look cool but if they both wont really do ANYTHING for performance and are JUST for sound, woudlnt it make sense to spend less money and just get the popcharger? if a CAI look, sound AND give more performance then it worth it i guess. i also dont know how easy heat soak is.
please dont tell me to read another thread. i have read thread for atleast 40 hours on intakes and still dont have a final answer. are intakes only helpful for performance from 5-7 rpm?
any answer would be great cuz this is taking forever. hope you understand
please dont tell me to read another thread. i have read thread for atleast 40 hours on intakes and still dont have a final answer. are intakes only helpful for performance from 5-7 rpm?
any answer would be great cuz this is taking forever. hope you understand
12-20-2008, 12:16 PM
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Does anyone with Injen dual CAI have any inputs on the statement above?
So according to the dyno, Injen CAI is useless unless you reach top end...
Will tuning be able to steal some ponies or torque in the low - mid range RPM?
12-20-2008, 02:48 PM
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It depends on the setup, the cai doesn't alter the a/f much, but tuning will benefit both mid range and top end since the stock fuel maps run rich on the top
01-06-2009, 07:58 PM
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I got it back from z-car garage over the new years. They took it to the muffler shop to have all the flanges welded on in place of the slip-joints. Z-car garage also made some mod to the HFC to stop the rasp (not sure what they did). It actually worked, once the exhaust warmed up - sounded awesome, but it lost like 4 HP. I said I'd trade 4hp for awesome sound, but Rob wants to try some stuff to see if we can keep all the power with zero rasp. I told him to go for it. I have other cars to drive while they play with mine.
He also asked if they can display it in their booth for the week at the San Jose Auto Show and I agreed. So maybe by the end of next week I'll get it back again.
Not sure what to do with the rasp. The power is awesome though. Can't wait to do a dyno tune.
Infinite and A.H; do you guys have the 1st gen bassani or the 2nd gen bassani? I think the 2nd gen bassani's have visible resonators inside the Exhaust tips. There may have been enough of a change to the 2nd gen Bassani that it has no rasp with HFC's or TP's- this is just speculation on my part.
He also asked if they can display it in their booth for the week at the San Jose Auto Show and I agreed. So maybe by the end of next week I'll get it back again.
Not sure what to do with the rasp. The power is awesome though. Can't wait to do a dyno tune.
Infinite and A.H; do you guys have the 1st gen bassani or the 2nd gen bassani? I think the 2nd gen bassani's have visible resonators inside the Exhaust tips. There may have been enough of a change to the 2nd gen Bassani that it has no rasp with HFC's or TP's- this is just speculation on my part.
01-06-2009, 09:15 PM
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I think I know what you mean, since I was wondering why mine didn't look like yours when I got my exhaust in the summer... took some pix of them this summer, but I can't seem to post them... sit is very slow for me, anyways they look like they have honey combs on the inside almost... if you want I can email you the pix...
But yes they are different
But yes they are different