jeremy tibbs where are you for us hr guys?
Why has someone not done a single turbo setup? You could produce a product that is just as high quality as any of these twin systems that would perform nearly as well and it would cost quite a bit less. Dual throttle bodies do not necessitate twin turbos. A single turbo setup could be just inexpensive enough to convince some guys that don't want to spend 10 grand on a turbo kit, to buy.
If you're willing to spend/risk ~$5k extra for maybe 200-300rpm earlier full boost on an engine that already makes ridiculous torque down low (for a V6) then hey, who am I to say different.
Darren(also likes that when showing a car the judges, spectators, and myself can enjoy seeing the turbo)
Don't forget, if you pay someone to install the kit, there's double the labor with twins (roughly ~$1200 extra). Also, there's now double the potential that turbos can go bad, and hence more money to pull it and replace it (start at $600 depending on turbo - don't forget the labor/time/money to pull and replace that turbo). But those are just the facts..
If you're willing to spend/risk ~$5k extra for maybe 200-300rpm earlier full boost on an engine that already makes ridiculous torque down low (for a V6) then hey, who am I to say different.
Darren(also likes that when showing a car the judges, spectators, and myself can enjoy seeing the turbo)
If you're willing to spend/risk ~$5k extra for maybe 200-300rpm earlier full boost on an engine that already makes ridiculous torque down low (for a V6) then hey, who am I to say different.
Darren(also likes that when showing a car the judges, spectators, and myself can enjoy seeing the turbo)
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I would definitely be interested in doing an HR single turbo kit as well. That would be pretty fun to do.
Its hard to keep up with Nissan though as far as mass production of a product goes. Regular DE, DE Revup, HR, 37HR all in just a few years on basically the same platform. Not sure if any of the companies are working on SC or Single for the HR though for mass production.
Its hard to keep up with Nissan though as far as mass production of a product goes. Regular DE, DE Revup, HR, 37HR all in just a few years on basically the same platform. Not sure if any of the companies are working on SC or Single for the HR though for mass production.
Don't forget, if you pay someone to install the kit, there's double the labor with twins (roughly ~$1200 extra). Also, there's now double the potential that turbos can go bad, and hence more money to pull it and replace it (start at $600 depending on turbo - don't forget the labor/time/money to pull and replace that turbo). But those are just the facts..
If you're willing to spend/risk ~$5k extra for maybe 200-300rpm earlier full boost on an engine that already makes ridiculous torque down low (for a V6) then hey, who am I to say different.
Darren(also likes that when showing a car the judges, spectators, and myself can enjoy seeing the turbo)
If you're willing to spend/risk ~$5k extra for maybe 200-300rpm earlier full boost on an engine that already makes ridiculous torque down low (for a V6) then hey, who am I to say different.
Darren(also likes that when showing a car the judges, spectators, and myself can enjoy seeing the turbo)
200 - 300 RPMS? more like 1000 - 1500 RPMS
I would definitely be interested in doing an HR single turbo kit as well. That would be pretty fun to do.
Its hard to keep up with Nissan though as far as mass production of a product goes. Regular DE, DE Revup, HR, 37HR all in just a few years on basically the same platform. Not sure if any of the companies are working on SC or Single for the HR though for mass production.
Its hard to keep up with Nissan though as far as mass production of a product goes. Regular DE, DE Revup, HR, 37HR all in just a few years on basically the same platform. Not sure if any of the companies are working on SC or Single for the HR though for mass production.
). I'm not sure why single kits weren't manufactured in the first place. I guess developing twins was easier? Not sure. Would you expect the costs to be significantly less by doing a one off single kit or would they be about the same as a production TT kit?
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You don't need a turbo running at most, to the bottom of it's efficiency range. Obviously, the people doing extensive builds would not be going with the cheaper option with less power potential, but a ~500hp capable turbo with the right hot side would spool damn near as fast as any of the twin setups right now. Most of the twin setups are overkill for anything under 500rwhp with the turbo selection they're using.
If you were to use say, a gt37, spool time would still be quick and you'd be able to put down some high 400's no problem. You'd be using less aluminum, less steel, less lines for cooling, etc. Save a lot of money, put out very similar performance....
any particular reason or just preference?
If you were to use say, a gt37, spool time would still be quick and you'd be able to put down some high 400's no problem. You'd be using less aluminum, less steel, less lines for cooling, etc. Save a lot of money, put out very similar performance....
any particular reason or just preference?
Last edited by 8cd03gro; Apr 29, 2009 at 01:30 PM.
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Exactly. This is the reason why I'll eventually be selling my car for something else that the aftermarket actually supports (Supra ). I'm not sure why single kits weren't manufactured in the first place. I guess developing twins was easier? Not sure. Would you expect the costs to be significantly less by doing a one off single kit or would they be about the same as a production TT kit?
). I'm not sure why single kits weren't manufactured in the first place. I guess developing twins was easier? Not sure. Would you expect the costs to be significantly less by doing a one off single kit or would they be about the same as a production TT kit?
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One of the fastest spooling turbo kits we ever did was a single GT35R with a .63 back on it. That setup would be good for 500+ without a doubt.
The GT37R kit we did hit full boost around 4000 rpms.
Its all about the right size turbo and i would say the boost difference vs power would be comparable if not equal.
The GT37R kit we did hit full boost around 4000 rpms.
Its all about the right size turbo and i would say the boost difference vs power would be comparable if not equal.
well i'm not planning on going tt, its more of a "what if" thing. but it'd be fun 
that less heat, with a twin setup, exhaust gasses are sperated, there for less heat in some specific area. also, tt'd are under the car, and more or less behind the engine, causing less heat issues. with a single like a turbonetics or powerlab the turbo is up high and front right next to the radiator and the intake pipe after the intercooler. and all the exhaust gasses are going to one area, therefore creating more heat in that specific area.
and like someone else mentioned, most of the twin kits are oversized, yet they still retain good spool. an oversized turbo will run cooler also.
and power delivery, on a single car, the power typically hits like a pile of bricks, with a twin setup, the power is usually more linear, making it easier to modulate...
prolly a couple more things that i can't think of off the top of my head
Originally Posted by 8cd03gro
any particular reason or just preference?
and like someone else mentioned, most of the twin kits are oversized, yet they still retain good spool. an oversized turbo will run cooler also.
and power delivery, on a single car, the power typically hits like a pile of bricks, with a twin setup, the power is usually more linear, making it easier to modulate...
prolly a couple more things that i can't think of off the top of my head
One of the fastest spooling turbo kits we ever did was a single GT35R with a .63 back on it. That setup would be good for 500+ without a doubt.
The GT37R kit we did hit full boost around 4000 rpms.
Its all about the right size turbo and i would say the boost difference vs power would be comparable if not equal.
The GT37R kit we did hit full boost around 4000 rpms.
Its all about the right size turbo and i would say the boost difference vs power would be comparable if not equal.
You don't need a turbo running at most, to the bottom of it's efficiency range. Obviously, the people doing extensive builds would not be going with the cheaper option with less power potential, but a ~500hp capable turbo with the right hot side would spool damn near as fast as any of the twin setups right now. Most of the twin setups are overkill for anything under 500rwhp with the turbo selection they're using.
If you were to use say, a gt37, spool time would still be quick and you'd be able to put down some high 400's no problem. You'd be using less aluminum, less steel, less lines for cooling, etc. Save a lot of money, put out very similar performance....
If you were to use say, a gt37, spool time would still be quick and you'd be able to put down some high 400's no problem. You'd be using less aluminum, less steel, less lines for cooling, etc. Save a lot of money, put out very similar performance....
i thougth this topic had been put to rest... it simply all depends on the kind of turbo(s) that you choose....and if you are going to also raise your rpm powerband(build motor cases) & a lil bit also has to do with how you shift.
gt35r is pretty responsive
thast 490-500whp on a dynojet at 10psi!
If your previous experience with singles(at all) was the TN kit(which i had) and the APS single, then i can see why you wouldnt wanna do that again lol.
Here a comparison with the APS twin (which is suppose to be quick spooling), spring wg..(both DE engine with same displacement)
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/4...5406078bp1.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...113633AM-1.jpg
@3100rpms apstt 328lbstq 192whp PL w/GT35r 300lbstq 175whp (PL-APS) -2lbstq -17whp
@4200rpms apstt 350lbstq 292whp PL w/GT35r 360lbstq 280whp (PL-APS) +10lbstq -12whp
@5300rpms apstt 340lbstq 348whp PL w/GT35r 367lbstq 370whp (PL-APS) +27lbstq +22whp
@5850rpms apstt 330lbstq 370whp PL w/GT35r 350lbstq 390whp (PL-APS) +20lbstq +20whp
@6400rpms apstt 280lbstq 360whp PL w/GT35r 310lbstq 378whp (PL-APS) +30lbstq +18whp
plenty of powerband for pl to take over, shifting has to be slightly different than twins. Note there is plenty more torque too.
quick edit: since this is HR thread, id say because of the twin intakes which also affect the amount of space/size of piping/size of turbo, it may make more sense on a TT setup(though i am not "setting this in stone" till i try it). Consider many of thse limitations are not present in the DE and the single fact that is a V setup wasnt isnt a reason not to try a single setup. New build DE engine allow you raise rpms, etc....and single turbo setups on a VQ outperforms even on the a stroke 2jz because of displacement and better heads...engine needs to get build to take as much power as the iron block 2jz.
i think if they have a solid engine an tune, ANYBODY that has SC that switches to ANY turbo kit is going to be happy and definatly be happy......torque difference (for starters) explains it
gt35r is pretty responsive
thast 490-500whp on a dynojet at 10psi!
If your previous experience with singles(at all) was the TN kit(which i had) and the APS single, then i can see why you wouldnt wanna do that again lol.
Here a comparison with the APS twin (which is suppose to be quick spooling), spring wg..(both DE engine with same displacement)
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/4...5406078bp1.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...113633AM-1.jpg
@3100rpms apstt 328lbstq 192whp PL w/GT35r 300lbstq 175whp (PL-APS) -2lbstq -17whp
@4200rpms apstt 350lbstq 292whp PL w/GT35r 360lbstq 280whp (PL-APS) +10lbstq -12whp
@5300rpms apstt 340lbstq 348whp PL w/GT35r 367lbstq 370whp (PL-APS) +27lbstq +22whp
@5850rpms apstt 330lbstq 370whp PL w/GT35r 350lbstq 390whp (PL-APS) +20lbstq +20whp
@6400rpms apstt 280lbstq 360whp PL w/GT35r 310lbstq 378whp (PL-APS) +30lbstq +18whp
plenty of powerband for pl to take over, shifting has to be slightly different than twins. Note there is plenty more torque too.
quick edit: since this is HR thread, id say because of the twin intakes which also affect the amount of space/size of piping/size of turbo, it may make more sense on a TT setup(though i am not "setting this in stone" till i try it). Consider many of thse limitations are not present in the DE and the single fact that is a V setup wasnt isnt a reason not to try a single setup. New build DE engine allow you raise rpms, etc....and single turbo setups on a VQ outperforms even on the a stroke 2jz because of displacement and better heads...engine needs to get build to take as much power as the iron block 2jz.
i think if they have a solid engine an tune, ANYBODY that has SC that switches to ANY turbo kit is going to be happy and definatly be happy......torque difference (for starters) explains it
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; May 4, 2009 at 06:49 AM.