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Well, that's what happened bud. Trust me I ain't happy about it either, but I understand that's the way it is when chasing a number (1000 in this case) everyone has their own theories and thoughts and opinion but truth is I'm the only one that's done it.... No one else can actually know first hand what it is exactly, the car is fine, the motor is Golden turbos are good I mean my tuner just told me right now "if your car had anything else wrong with it he would have let me know because he knows I would of had it fixed immediately. So car is going on the dyno sometime today or tomorrow.
Originally Posted by Nismo350z#0310
Those types of loses can not be from a GTR upper.
There is something going on whether boost leaks, other inefficiencies, maybe tune wise. I dont see a GTR upper needing 8psi with same numbers. That's wild!!!
BUT, speaking with a former GTM lower user who could have guess it, thing needs to be re-decked, its not even flat, its probably leaking boost, the injectors are at a **** angle, etc etc etc
Who could have guess a GTM product sucked. Been there done that.
Speaking with Bobby from RJM, basically the dyno test for the high boost application showed a increase in 3 AFRs from just switching from the GTM to the RJM lower.
Basically it's HUGE. Air flow is insanely more. Add more fuel to it and ZOOOOOM
I knew it.... They will only claim Gains when they add more fuel and boost to it... Not a fair comparison in my honest opinion. Any car can gain more power with more fuel and boost, a straight up comparison same boost settings and fuel settings just change the plenums and compare.... Anything else is BS
Originally Posted by Nismo350z#0310
Speaking with Bobby from RJM, basically the dyno test for the high boost application showed a increase in 3 AFRs from just switching from the GTM to the RJM lower.
Basically it's HUGE. Air flow is insanely more. Add more fuel to it and ZOOOOOM
The guy kept all the settings the same (tune and Boost) and was running lean with the RJM. He couldn't adjust his tune bc it was lock at his end. I think it's fair if more fuel is added and kept the boost the same. But we won't know anytime soon until he switch to his new kit (Fast Intention).
"Our final comparison will be the best GTM/Gamma could produce versus the best Fast Intentions could produce."
Then again, all of this is being done to a 370Z right?
Originally Posted by John_B
The guy kept all the settings the same (tune and Boost) and was running lean with the RJM. He couldn't adjust his tune bc it was lock at his end. I think it's fair if more fuel is added and kept the boost the same. But we won't know anytime soon until he switch to his new kit (Fast Intention).
"Our final comparison will be the best GTM/Gamma could produce versus the best Fast Intentions could produce."
I knew it.... They will only claim Gains when they add more fuel and boost to it... Not a fair comparison in my honest opinion. Any car can gain more power with more fuel and boost, a straight up comparison same boost settings and fuel settings just change the plenums and compare.... Anything else is BS
We're going to compare stock to RJM/GTR with the same boost level. You'll always have to add more fuel if you are moving more volume of air, otherwise it'll run lean. That would still be a good comparison. The gains expected from the new intake manifolds is due to more efficient movement and increased volume of air. Any car can gain more power with more fuel and boost up to a point. But increasing the air volume and keeping the fuel settings won't give any useful data if the car is running lean and could hurt the car on the dyno. Boost + knock = boom.
So by your "Theory" the loss of WHP that I got from this conversion is normal? Because from what I think your saying is that since I am adding something with a lot more room for air, Threfore I need more fuel and air to fill it as fast I I used to with the OEM manifold?!?!? 🤔
Originally Posted by Pete5150
We're going to compare stock to RJM/GTR with the same boost level. You'll always have to add more fuel if you are moving more volume of air, otherwise it'll run lean. That would still be a good comparison. The gains expected from the new intake manifolds is due to more efficient movement and increased volume of air. Any car can gain more power with more fuel and boost up to a point. But increasing the air volume and keeping the fuel settings won't give any useful data if the car is running lean and could hurt the car on the dyno. Boost + knock = boom.
I knew it.... They will only claim Gains when they add more fuel and boost to it... Not a fair comparison in my honest opinion. Any car can gain more power with more fuel and boost, a straight up comparison same boost settings and fuel settings just change the plenums and compare.... Anything else is BS
The tune is the exact same, therefore, it would have to change tunes and fuel to see gains.....
The reason the AFR is a retarded 3 points higher is due to the fact more air volume is being taken in. So more air than fuel. Modify the fuel to the air ratio, the same as before, and you are making more power with the same air to fuel ratio tune.... see?
And for me.... I doubt .2 liters would allow for loses when we are talking 1000whp and +30psi of boost.
but I will see at some point in my build... in.... 2.5 years
Last edited by Nismo350z#0310; 04-22-2016 at 04:05 AM.
So by your "Theory" the loss of WHP that I got from this conversion is normal? Because from what I think your saying is that since I am adding something with a lot more room for air, Threfore I need more fuel and air to fill it as fast I I used to with the OEM manifold?!?!? 🤔
I'm curious what was your AFR when you had the car dyno'd with the GTR manifold. I have to guess that you were running super lean when you added more boost without any tune (Fuel adjustment).
I dont know how to answer those questions, since my tuner only calls me tells me what it is.... And if it's not going to work or hurt my motor, he just recommends uninstalling the parts. Here is the only graph of the GTR dyno pulls
Originally Posted by John_B
^^^ Yup what he said.
I'm curious what was your AFR when you had the car dyno'd with the GTR manifold. I have to guess that you were running super lean when you added more boost without any tune (Fuel adjustment).
I'm not a tuner expert, (someone correct me if I'm wrong). From looking at the graph your AFR chart are reading lean at WOT.
That is not A/F, its boost logging.
His tuner put on the GT-R manifold, and began tuning for it, and aborted the mission when he found that the car made much less power at the same boost.
This vehicle owner did not just bolt on the GT-R manifold and attempt to dyno it himself. His tuner had to do the full install which most likely required altering his intercooler pipes and fuel lines and vacuum line setup etc. I doubt at this point they were going to just do a half *** dyno pull and see what happens. This car was already making over 900rwhp originally, they were going to go for the gold.
His tuner put on the GT-R manifold, and began tuning for it, and aborted the mission when he found that the car made much less power at the same boost.
This vehicle owner did not just bolt on the GT-R manifold and attempt to dyno it. His tuner had to do the full install which most likely required altering his intercooler pipes and fuel lines and vacuum line setup etc. I doubt at this point they were going to just do a half *** dyno pull and see what happens. This car was already making over 900rwhp originally, they were going to go for the gold.
Do we really believe that a GTR manifold would create that much a loss in power, or is there something else at play here?
Do we really believe that a GTR manifold would create that much a loss in power, or is there something else at play here?
Difficult to determine 100% from here. We will know more when we see direct comparisons from more than one car.
I think it makes some sense.. after all, we see in the comparison graph posted that its about a 50hp drop, maybe a little more since the graphs shows them 1psi apart. That type of power is pretty easy to make with an intake manifold upgrade, so I would say its pretty easy to lose with an intake manifold downgrade.
But on the other hand, what has me still a little on the fence now that I see this dyno graph, is that the power-band does not appear to have changed shape.
The 2 graphs overlaid, with no back-story, would appear to me to be from the same setup car just the red graph was a higher boost setting so the power continued to climb and then follows the same curve. That's exactly what it looks like if we ignore the story behind it.
I would have expected that the GT-R manifold produced some mid-range power over the stock HR stuff, and then would begin to fall off towards redline. But again, they are producing identical powerbands, only one more powerful than the other. That is surprising to me.
04-20-2016, 10:23 AM
turbos are good I mean my tuner just told me right now "if your car had anything else wrong with it he would have let me know because he knows I would of had it fixed immediately. So car is going on the dyno sometime today or tomorrow. 
