heezyo2o

While downshifting from 6th to 3rd, I sometimes worry about accidentally engaging 1st instead. It may be all in my head, but it causes me to hesitate which results in an abrupt gear change. While hesitating, my blip/rev-match falls a bit so am not at the proper RPM when going into 3rd. If I didn't hesitate, a smooth gear change would be the result.

I have no trouble going from 5th to 3rd or 6th to 4th. It's just the direct 6th to 3rd shift that bothers me. To work around this, I normally go into 5th prior to going into 3rd.

My shifter and clutch are completely stock, and while I enjoy the short throws, I'm wondering if it's the notchiness that is contributing to my problem. I drive a few other manual transmission cars, and I have no problem going from 6th to 3rd in those cars. One other car is a BMW, and while the throws are much longer, I feel that the shifting is a little more precise. I have no worries about accidentally going into 1st in that car.

RevLimitZ

I always bump it up outta 6th and let the shifter center itself up below 3rd(w/ my hand still on it, of course) then move straight up into 3rd all in one fluid motion. I can't think of many situations where you have to rush from 6 to 3, but whenever you do...don't miss!!!

edwin350z

iTrader: (23)

its all in your head!! i have a short throw shifter and evertime i would go hard into 6th it felt like i was going to get into reverse and it was driving me nuts

roast

iTrader: (2)

I doubt that you could ever get into 1st from 6th on accident.

Palm the shifter instead of fighter piloting it.

Tenac1ousZ

iTrader: (2)

kind of off topic, but I don't think it's good for the synchronizers if you skip gears, especially down shifting. The reason is that every time you downshift, such as going from 6th to 5th, the synchronizers have to spind the gears & clutch disc faster to match the drive shaft's speed.

While it's not a big difference in speed going from 6th to 5th to 4th etc., jumping from 6th to 3rd is a big change. Instead of spinning the gears step-by-step, the sychros now have to speed up the clutch disc and gears in one big step, which causes more wear on your synchros.

If you need to make such big change in gear and don't want to down shift gear-by-gear, try double clutching. If you don't know what the hell that is, it's when you put it in neutral, release the clutch, rev the engine to where you think the RPM would rest when you put it in a lower gear, then step on the clutch again and put it in gear. If done right, the gear would glide into place instead of being forced into the slot. The idea is that you manually spind the gears and clutch disc.

This is not neccessary for regular gear changes or even when skipping gears. But if you're going from 5th to 2nd, it's a way to help out your tranny take off some of the load. (Note that this is similar, but it's not "heel-toeing")

Miko

iTrader: (2)

Double clutch and let the synchros have a day off. Also, If you're in 6th and want to go into 3rd, at say 55-60 mph. If you let off the gas and depress the clutch and try to move it into 3rd (while the RPMs have already dropped), I doubt it'll let you go into 3rd since the revs aren't matched. Therefore, before moving it into 3rd, you should have blipped the gas to about 5500 RPM and put it into 3rd while its falling...by the time you let the clutch out the RPMs would've fallen to 5000 and you're good to go. Were this me, I would've double clutched to spare the synchros...=> depress clutch, move shifter to neutral, let clutch out, depress clutch back in, hit gas to 5500 RPM and at same time move shifter to 3rd gear and let clutch out, and bam it catches @ 5K RPM. SHould be smooth too.

savvy

iTrader: (1)

you could always go 6th to 4th and avoid the situation entirely

charlie_rdstr_Z

iTrader: (2)

That's what I do.

Also try palm facing toward the front of your car. Push up from 6th to 3rd. I have never hit 5th or 1st doing that.

SIRCRASHALOT

Dood you shouldn't be skipping gears to begin with ....... just rev-match and work your way down through the gears its safer you dont run the risk of shift lock, and it sounds kool to rev-match down shift......

mistermojorizin

Compare Miko's description of double clutching with TenaciousZ's description of double clutching. Miko revs up with the clutch in, Tenacious revs up with the clutch out.

Which one is correct?

I believe that to synchronize the drive shaft (in other words, to doulbe clutch) you have to rev up with the clutch out while the stick is in neutral. Otherwise, (Miko's metho), you're not really double clutching, your just rev matching after having the car briefly in neutral.

I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am. But I think the shaft doesn't get synchronized if you rev with the clutch in, therefore its not double clutching.

Anyone know for sure?

VN_350z

iTrader: (3)

i have difficulty downshift from 6th to 1st at 65mph...not 3rd

heezyo2o

Thanks for the help guys. I normally palm the shifter to begin with and I appreciate the lessons, but I'm quite aware of rev-matching, double clutching and all the rest. I guess I'll just practice this particular shift, or do the aforementioned and go into 5th first or just put in 4th. I think part of the trouble is that I tend to use 6th quite early. Nothing that would lug the engine, but a little early nonetheless.

If I do hesitate during a 6th to 3rd shift, then yes my blip/rev-match will have fallen, so I guess I do double clutch going into third at times, but it's not planned when I start the shift and don't think it's necessary for going into third. I always double clutch when downshifting into 2nd however. It's actually my favorite shift.

Miko

iTrader: (2)

When I wrote: "depress clutch, move shifter to neutral, let clutch out, depress clutch back in, hit gas to 5500 RPM and at same time move shifter to 3rd gear and let clutch out, and bam it catches @ 5K RPM." Yeah I do that sometimes. But I think the proper method should be to rev it to correct RPM, and right after that depress the clutch and shift into the correct gear, and let clutch out, correct?

The Brickyard Rat

iTrader: (1)

Everytime I post on something mechcanical I get my butt kicked because I generally don't know what I'm talking about.

But, alas, I keep trying.

Seems to me there is some type of "lockout" on first gear where past a certain speed, any effort to get into first is met with a grinding sound.
True?

Eazzy

iTrader: (8)

Dont downshift from 6th to 3rd, theres just no sense to it. Ur syncros are freakin out and ur poor clutch disc is cryin for relief.
Brick Yard ---Ur syncros can just spin up so fast---no lock out ---just ur tranny sayin ----Hey dude chill out --I can just do so much in the time alotted---Im doing what ur askin as fast as I can !!!!!

Jim@Showstoppers

iTrader: (157)

I know there is a lock-out of my rsx between 1st and third to prevent mis-shifts

Zmazing03

iTrader: (9)

I just throw down the clutch, bump the throttle to 5000+ and put in 3rd and out on the clutch pedal. Nice and smooth.

Swiffer

iTrader: (8)

Not that I know of. Anytime I have tried to legitimately put it into 1st, no resistance. Next time I'm driving, I'll CAREFULLY put it in first when I'm going 40-50ish, with the clutch in of course. I'll see if it lets me or not.

mavtais

iTrader: (12)

Yep.
And to the original poster, your longer throw shifters feel more precise because they allow more room for error. A shorter throw means less room for error, and what that really means is that you don't trust the precision of your own hand. But you haven't missed yet, right? So there you go.

rotaryrocket7

Double Clutching:

Press clutch pedal to floor, remove shifter from gear, let clutch pedal up, rev engine to necessary RPM, push clutch pedal to the floor, move shifter into intended gear.

I didn't use "engage/disengage" clutch because most people get confused...

The bottom line is the clutch plate must be touching the flywheel so that the input shaft in the transmission accelerates to the appropriate RPM when you hit the gas.

If you do this with the clutch pedal on the floor, you'll notice the car doesn't lurch when you let out the clutch, but you did this thanks to the synchro's. Downshifting multiple gears in one move can be hard on the synchro's, so double clutching is good.

It is somewhat difficult initially as it seems cumbersome to move the pedal up and down so much. Once you get it right (even when doing it slowly) you'll notice the shifter moves into gear like a knife through butter.

There is always debate about how necessary this really is, some great race car drivers have gone without double clutching, so I'll leave the decision to you.