NGZ

iTrader: (1)

Show drifting is slower, but I think whether or not to slip depends on the situation, and a little agressive sliding makes sense sometimes.

Here are some fun links:
http://www.karting1.co.uk/kartsteering-karting.htm
http://www.karting1.co.uk/braking-karting.htm

Tubbs

iTrader: (1)

Well, corner exit is different than corner entrance, no?

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Tires will generate the maximum grip when at the limit of their slip angle and slip ratio.

As soon as you start to get some slippage, you are slidding. You are not drifting nor have the tires completely broken traction. But the thread isn't static releative to the pavement anymore.

Look closely at on board F1 footage. It's slight (slip angle of race tires is usually below 3 degrees) but it's there. Always on the verge of loosing it completely. Definitely NOT on rails.

Tubbs

iTrader: (1)

Ah, well my interpretation is that the OP is losing traction before entering a corner. Not after, not squeeling the tires as they slide, but losing traction.

And come on... he's very obviously new at driving... what do you think he's doing?

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

You setup your car for a corner exit at the corner entry... We're playing on interpretation here. Different lines around a corner are possible.

As weird as it may seem, if you're planning on driving fast on the street, it is safer to be completely slidding through the corners No chance of being surprised by a sudden loss of traction then, you're already in low traction mode...

This is also how you should be driving in the rain on a race track...

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

I think he's doing just what he said. Just giving it gas to get the rear a bit loose.

That's all he said.

Tubbs

iTrader: (1)

I think we're thinking different things here. You're talking advanced racing techniques, whereas the OP was excited to get the car loose before a turn. And to me, having the tires on the VERGE of breaking loose, and then hammering the gas at the apex is different than losing control before the turn.

neeferea

Exactly! I only apply a bit of extra power at the exit of the turn to momentarily straiten the car out. That’s why I was surprised to see so much flaming here.

neeferea

Actually your assumptions are incorrect. Maybe my ESL English maid it unclear. When I enter the turn at 15 MPH I just apply extra power so that the car steers without me turning the weel. I don't even make the square sound.

redlude97

iTrader: (11)

The don't call it DRIFTING its NOT!

neeferea

And again you are assuming that I am a very new driver. I am 22 y.o but I have over 150K miles of driving experience. Not to say its a lot, but.....

Zshazz

^^ Um... just so you know, the number of miles you've driven has very little bearing on your abilities as a driver. A driver with 10k miles but has had proper driving training >>> a driver with 100 MILLION miles who's never even driven in the rain.

Tubbs

iTrader: (1)

I made my assumptions because your questions and descriptions of feelings made it seem as if 1. you were a new driver and 2. this is your first rwd car.

Tubbs

iTrader: (1)

That is completely different from drifting. What you're doing is fine. Carry on.

Spike100

Anytime you are sliding, skidding, "drifting," (or whatever you want to call a loss of traction); you have less control of the car. If your driving skills/experience isn't par with this situation, you can potentially lose control. Suggesting this is "driving a RWD car" by deliberately forcing "traction-loss" on public roadways is foolish. You learn and drive this way on a track or in a controlled environment where mistakes result in hitting a cone. If things go bad on the street, you may damage or wreck your Z, which would be far better than the worst case scenario (sliding into a pedestrian or another car, and injuring an innocent person).

--Spike

kh_08

iTrader: (4)

Spike100

I know that you are not a fan of Wikipedia when it comes to technical information about cars (I learned that from other posts you made that criticized me for using this reference source), but you mention "Slip Angle" and "Slip Ratio" without defining these terms. So... Here is a reference that defines the terms (I put this up so readers can understand what you are talking about):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_angle


re> Tires will generate the maximum grip when at the limit of their slip angle and slip ratio.

I'm not sure that is true. Maybe true when rolling, but maximum grip means how easily the tire is displaced from its path. Taking this to to the most elemental level, maximum grip is at rest (and not what you state).

--Spike

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

That’s a good reference for the definition of slip angle. Slip ratio refers to the same phenomenon but is specific to the longitudinal forces on the tire contact patch (ie accelerating and braking).

I’m not sure how the amount of grip available to a parked car is of any use in the current context? Grip might be available, but it’s not being used for anything except holding the car there.

Maybe a different example would illustrate better what I said.

Imagine driving in a circle. Drive as fast as you can, without the tires squealing. No squealing pretty much means the tire is static relative to the pavement. Static friction.

Now drive a bit faster. What happens? The car starts to slide, you have to turn the steering a bit more to keep the same circle, tire start to squeal. Part of the tire patch isn’t static anymore. The deformation causes the thread to locally stretch, and eventually the thread has to “Snap back” to the tire carcass. You are now somewhere within the slip angle threshold. The tire still holds, and despite a reduced effective contact patch, you’re pulling more lateral g’s (going faster, same circle radius). Tire squeal sound like iiiiiiiiii

Drive faster yet, you completely overcome the tires and you can’t maintain the circle. You’re sliding much more and can’t pull much g’s. Tire squeal drops in pitch, it sounds more like uuuuuuuuuuuuu.

Does that make more sense ?

Spike100

^^

I guess that I'm stupid. I really have no idea how this is related to the OP's question. And, I'm missing your point completely.

--Spike

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Lol!

1AM, I'm not at my best anymore...

I'll see if I can get a paper detailing some rubber tire models that would explain it better. We might be saying the same thing differently...

Sitting face to face, with a [insert favorite drink] would help I'm sure...