Is the HR worth it?
08-15-2013, 10:38 AM
#101
Registered User
what you said -- it starts this:
that FULLY BOLT ON CAMMED TUNED DE pulls a stock HR by what..?
there's no winning. spend x-amount of $ just to make a DE a car or maybe 2.5 faster or spend the little extra for an HR and spend half what you put into the DE to beat a FULLY BOLT ON CAMMED de by a few cars..
HR-Z
if the OP's budget is this tight... you may want to rethink a civic.
because seriously, this is an easy thread.
HR
08-15-2013, 11:29 AM
#102
I agree man, but my gosh..
what you said -- it starts this:
that FULLY BOLT ON CAMMED TUNED DE pulls a stock HR by what..?
there's no winning. spend x-amount of $ just to make a DE a car or maybe 2.5 faster or spend the little extra for an HR and spend half what you put into the DE to beat a FULLY BOLT ON CAMMED de by a few cars..
HR-Z
if the OP's budget is this tight... you may want to rethink a civic.
because seriously, this is an easy thread.
HR
what you said -- it starts this:
that FULLY BOLT ON CAMMED TUNED DE pulls a stock HR by what..?
there's no winning. spend x-amount of $ just to make a DE a car or maybe 2.5 faster or spend the little extra for an HR and spend half what you put into the DE to beat a FULLY BOLT ON CAMMED de by a few cars..
HR-Z
if the OP's budget is this tight... you may want to rethink a civic.
because seriously, this is an easy thread.
HR
08-15-2013, 11:37 AM
#103
Registered User
nah, im just saying to the OP that if his/her wallet is that tight on a car in gereral, a sportscar may not be for him/her.
he needs to realize tires will go before an economy civic.
gas.
insurance.
list goes on.
gotta pay to play. make sure you can pay.
he needs to realize tires will go before an economy civic.
gas.
insurance.
list goes on.
gotta pay to play. make sure you can pay.
08-15-2013, 03:51 PM
#108
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08-15-2013, 08:13 PM
#109
Registered User
"youngbloods" comment was unnecessary to be honest, but no worries, one bit.
I take that as in I can't drive and I don't know what i'm doing. I know i'm "newer" around here, but please, take that with a grain of salt.
mine..?!
racecar/daily driver #2. But you're also discounting the driver.
-as i'm sure you know, a good driver can do wonders to any car.
And no, we aren't talking about dumping the clutch and burning rubber to wear out the tires. That's retarded.
Real driving.
-Check out Z1's youtube vid at Roebling. That's what i'm talking about. The man behind that wheel can drive the **** out of that Z.. my example on tires.
I go to Roebling and CMP since i'm down here in chuck. I want to catch Z1 there at some point!!!!
-I never have.
We ALL know no one likes it on this site, but WE ALL KNOW an empty street is also a quick road course as well. see example on Z1. <- no more on that.
____________________________
To put back on subject, OP just needs to look at a decent HR vs DE, look at his/her funds, seriously check them, and if you can get an HR, DO IT, if not, get a DE.. if you're struggling to get a DE, buy an economy car IF in need and wait for HR to drop in a couple years or 370z etc.
Also to OP, a bone stock HR-Z with a little weight reduction and wheels will pull a new BMW 335is with wheels.
friend vs myself at a track out of 5 times a year ago. My Z won every time, even with him driving it, although it was much closer, but still the same time around his time with his own car. Running VERY low 13's. STOCK. I drove his car twice. All same results, pretty much.. Never going to be the exact same.
They're supposed to run 13.1-3.. and we were both in that ball park.
driver. learn your car.
i've held my car at redline so many times just to see, NO BS, ba ba ba ba ba lol, VQ35HR is a machine. You will LOVE it.
HR.R-CING
08-16-2013, 03:00 AM
#110
[QUOTE=RENFRO;10197169
[B]You never really see any speed at an auto-x. In theory, and on paper, a DE would perform better at an auto-x due to its higher torque. No need to beat it to death.[/B]
Im not too sure about that. I had a DE, and loved it, still prefer it over the RevUp but technically I think a RevUp is a bit faster around a track due to higher redline. Many moons ago R&T, motorTrend, one of the mags featured the 06 vs an 03 or 04 around a test track and the 06 was a second quicker.
[B]You never really see any speed at an auto-x. In theory, and on paper, a DE would perform better at an auto-x due to its higher torque. No need to beat it to death.[/B]
Im not too sure about that. I had a DE, and loved it, still prefer it over the RevUp but technically I think a RevUp is a bit faster around a track due to higher redline. Many moons ago R&T, motorTrend, one of the mags featured the 06 vs an 03 or 04 around a test track and the 06 was a second quicker.
08-16-2013, 06:37 AM
#111
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[QUOTE=Firebase99;10198701]
I can see that from the fact that as soon as a DE gets close to the redline the gas starts to cut out, not good when your trying to get maximum powah
Originally Posted by RENFRO;10197169
[B
[B
You never really see any speed at an auto-x. In theory, and on paper, a DE would perform better at an auto-x due to its higher torque. No need to beat it to death.[/B]
Im not too sure about that. I had a DE, and loved it, still prefer it over the RevUp but technically I think a RevUp is a bit faster around a track due to higher redline. Many moons ago R&T, motorTrend, one of the mags featured the 06 vs an 03 or 04 around a test track and the 06 was a second quicker.
Im not too sure about that. I had a DE, and loved it, still prefer it over the RevUp but technically I think a RevUp is a bit faster around a track due to higher redline. Many moons ago R&T, motorTrend, one of the mags featured the 06 vs an 03 or 04 around a test track and the 06 was a second quicker.
I can see that from the fact that as soon as a DE gets close to the redline the gas starts to cut out, not good when your trying to get maximum powah
08-16-2013, 06:42 AM
#112
[QUOTE=stuartc323;10198812]Yea thats a given and the problem, the RevUp has another 400RPM before that, its maybe a tick or two slower to 60, but you can hold it longer coming out of the corners, etc.
08-19-2013, 06:07 AM
#113
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I find the comments about the DE having more torque interesting.
In the dyno sheets I've seen, the DE has a slightly higher peak torque, but the curves are similar until 4k rpms or so where the HR maintains a much higher level of torque while the DE falls off sharply.
Maybe the dyno results I'm looking at are not typical but it seems to me that the HR has superior torque delivery even if the DE peaks a bit higher.
In the dyno sheets I've seen, the DE has a slightly higher peak torque, but the curves are similar until 4k rpms or so where the HR maintains a much higher level of torque while the DE falls off sharply.
Maybe the dyno results I'm looking at are not typical but it seems to me that the HR has superior torque delivery even if the DE peaks a bit higher.
08-19-2013, 07:39 AM
#114
fuel cut is for engine safety.
Also, the argument that the HR has less torque should be a mute point on the fact the SAE standards changed in 2007. The 306hp is really higher, no one has been able to prove the actual amount. Lets guess: 315-320? If so, the torque number also has to change (on the same percentage increase), from 268 to 276-278. Same amount as the DE. Even if it were still 8 torque less, 8 torque is peanuts. Peanuts. But none the less the fact is by the same SAE standards for the DE, the HR has the same amount or more.
The delivery characteristics of power matter as well. If you are delivering 8 less torque but delivering it at a much longer rate it could still result in more power. And the HR delivers it longer.
But I digress.
Also, the argument that the HR has less torque should be a mute point on the fact the SAE standards changed in 2007. The 306hp is really higher, no one has been able to prove the actual amount. Lets guess: 315-320? If so, the torque number also has to change (on the same percentage increase), from 268 to 276-278. Same amount as the DE. Even if it were still 8 torque less, 8 torque is peanuts. Peanuts. But none the less the fact is by the same SAE standards for the DE, the HR has the same amount or more.
The delivery characteristics of power matter as well. If you are delivering 8 less torque but delivering it at a much longer rate it could still result in more power. And the HR delivers it longer.
But I digress.
08-19-2013, 04:01 PM
#115
fuel cut is for engine safety.
Also, the argument that the HR has less torque should be a mute point on the fact the SAE standards changed in 2007. The 306hp is really higher, no one has been able to prove the actual amount. Lets guess: 315-320? If so, the torque number also has to change (on the same percentage increase), from 268 to 276-278. Same amount as the DE. Even if it were still 8 torque less, 8 torque is peanuts. Peanuts. But none the less the fact is by the same SAE standards for the DE, the HR has the same amount or more.
The delivery characteristics of power matter as well. If you are delivering 8 less torque but delivering it at a much longer rate it could still result in more power. And the HR delivers it longer.
But I digress.
Also, the argument that the HR has less torque should be a mute point on the fact the SAE standards changed in 2007. The 306hp is really higher, no one has been able to prove the actual amount. Lets guess: 315-320? If so, the torque number also has to change (on the same percentage increase), from 268 to 276-278. Same amount as the DE. Even if it were still 8 torque less, 8 torque is peanuts. Peanuts. But none the less the fact is by the same SAE standards for the DE, the HR has the same amount or more.
The delivery characteristics of power matter as well. If you are delivering 8 less torque but delivering it at a much longer rate it could still result in more power. And the HR delivers it longer.
But I digress.
08-19-2013, 04:33 PM
#116
New Member
"Hey dude my car is so much faster to the local street speed limit!"
Reminds me of the race in Ali G in the House.
And speaking about the weight difference, it is nothing. Either way the Z is a heavy dog, what is an extra 150 lbs? Calculate the power to weight ratio of the DE model and HR model then post back.
08-19-2013, 04:36 PM
#117
And a Prius is faster then a Z to 2 feet due to instant power. Who cares what car is faster to 30.
"Hey dude my car is so much faster to the local street speed limit!"
Reminds me of the race in Ali G in the House.
And speaking about the weight difference, it is nothing. Either way the Z is a heavy dog, what is an extra 150 lbs? Calculate the power to weight ratio of the DE model and HR model then post back.
"Hey dude my car is so much faster to the local street speed limit!"
Reminds me of the race in Ali G in the House.
And speaking about the weight difference, it is nothing. Either way the Z is a heavy dog, what is an extra 150 lbs? Calculate the power to weight ratio of the DE model and HR model then post back.
08-20-2013, 07:26 AM
#118
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And a Prius is faster then a Z to 2 feet due to instant power. Who cares what car is faster to 30.
"Hey dude my car is so much faster to the local street speed limit!"
Reminds me of the race in Ali G in the House.
And speaking about the weight difference, it is nothing. Either way the Z is a heavy dog, what is an extra 150 lbs? Calculate the power to weight ratio of the DE model and HR model then post back.
"Hey dude my car is so much faster to the local street speed limit!"
Reminds me of the race in Ali G in the House.
And speaking about the weight difference, it is nothing. Either way the Z is a heavy dog, what is an extra 150 lbs? Calculate the power to weight ratio of the DE model and HR model then post back.
150 pounds is a lot to feel a difference in the car. Dont believe me? fill up your gas tank to full and than drive it when it gets to a quarter of a tank, you can feel the difference in the weight. The Zs weigh 3200 to 3300 pounds, lose 150 to 250 and your at 3050 close to FRS/BRZ weight and porsche turbo weights. Not saying The DE is better because its lighter, but if you reduced the weight in your HR Z, you would absolutely feel a difference, especially 150 pounds.
Last edited by stuartc323; 08-20-2013 at 07:29 AM.
08-20-2013, 08:34 AM
#119
New Member
150 pounds is a lot to feel a difference in the car. Dont believe me? fill up your gas tank to full and than drive it when it gets to a quarter of a tank, you can feel the difference in the weight. The Zs weigh 3200 to 3300 pounds, lose 150 to 250 and your at 3050 close to FRS/BRZ weight and porsche turbo weights. Not saying The DE is better because its lighter, but if you reduced the weight in your HR Z, you would absolutely feel a difference, especially 150 pounds.
With that being said, at my last autox event my fastest time was with a passenger, and he was a pretty big guy. Maybe his weight helped me with traction lol.
08-20-2013, 07:14 PM
#120
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